Jehovah`s Witness/Address To Sister T and DW....

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Question
Once again, these people only dig themselves deeper in the hole they are already in.  They just don't seem to get that they are not going to excuse their own blatant lies which have been posted in public, and then make everyone else a liar.

So, in an attempt to be fair, I have looked at the comments from Sister T and DW, and addressed them as they were writting.

And we see once again, that they are merely turning things around, trying to get attention off of themselves.

Answer
SISTER T:  “Derrick is always calling the Witnesses liars, but who ever sides with him can lie on us all they want and he's ok with it. Here's some lies of the so called Christian Derrick who is on a forum being dishonest by his very presence as an expert, and is only here to cause trouble so he can distract people from the truth, evil satanic tactic.

His attacks and word picks about someone he claims has lied and his slander of people, poking fun of the Witnesses, name calling, and speaking against our beliefs means he is a critic and should be on the critics page.”

REPLY:  No, Sister T, it is not “ok” for anyone to lie on you or your religion.  No more so than it is acceptable for you people to lie on us, or our beliefs.  Now, I have documented beyond all doubt, that such lying has occurred, and continues to occur from YOUR side.  You people have NOT documented that it is coming from OUR side.  

But to be fair, if you will write to me (or post in the forum if you had rather not write me directly), a REAL example of a lie told by one of my brethren in Christ, I will be happy to privately address them about it.  I do not believe any of these people will even NEED addressing, because if they post something that is wrong, they will correct it themselves.  They will not need to be told, because they are people of integrity.

An example….My brother in Christ, Richard, was made aware that a quote he attributed to Fred Franz, actually came from Hayden Covington.  Was Richard given the benefit of the doubt, or asked to simply made a correction, even though the quote itself was still the same and was quoted accurately?  No, he was not.  The  questioner immediately called it a “lie”, and tried to get Richard to say he lied.  That is the mentality you people operate under.  Richard did not need to be taken aside…When the error was pointed out, he immediately corrected it with a Christian attitude, and in the right spirit.

And that’s FAR more than any of you 3 ever do.

So, if you can show me an actual example of someone lying, I will be happy to see to it that the truth is told.  No false information from EITHER side, should ever be allowed to stand.  Don’t you agree?  If so, then I will expect some retractions from your side, too.


SISTER T:  “"The whole thing was quite funny, because Sister T is always calling non-JWs here “liars”, and renounces those who lie. Well, she renounces those who are NON-Witnesses, that is. But when Rando wrote her with his lies, she actually THANKED him for it."

This is a lie, period.

If he quoted my response as this:

"Thanks for writing and yes, I really knew something wasn't quite right when this "Dee" person first wrote to me, because why write to me and complain about someone else and then try to make it seem like you are so innocent. I didn't buy it and they have proved to be exactly as was thought!

Thanks for pointing it out, why else are they here if not to deceive and mislead, there are no good intentions at all and it just shows the desperation and deceit that opposers have!”

Tell me where do I say at any time and anywhere that I thanked anyone for lying!! That is a lie right there!”


REPLY:  Okay Sister T, there is no need to go off the emotional deep-end here.  All you need to do is calm down, and RE-READ what I actually said.  I did not say that you VERBALLY said “Thank you, Rando, for lying”.  I said that Rando’s post WAS full of lies (fact), and you thanked him for “pointing this out” (fact), and that what Rando “pointed out”, was LIES (fact).  So the effect is the same…Rando lied in what he “pointed out”, and you thanked him for pointing him out.

I dare say had Ben, Richard, or Kevin written to me and said that “Sister T” is really Rando as a cross-dresser, and I said “Thank you for pointing this out”, you would be saying the same thing.  The comment would be a lie, and instead of my calling them out for telling it, you would say that I was going along with it.  

Wouldn’t you, Sister T?

So, just for your peace of mind, let me post for you AGAIN, what I actually said….

ME:  “But again, he lied, and again, he gets burned for it. Dee is not Luis. Plain and simple. So, we have Rando telling several lies, and Sister T “thanking” him for writing with his lies.

However, Sister T here renounces lying. BUT, then she turns right around and THANKS Rando for writing to her and “pointing things out”. The problem is, the things Rando “pointed out”, were lies.”


Now, let me just make it clear that I was not saying you KNEW if the statements were true.  My guess is, that you didn’t.  You just took the clown’s word for it, PERHAPS not realizing he has done this same method of slander since he has been here, and he does it HIMSELF.  You thought because he is a “brother”, that he MUST be telling the truth.  

I believe I also acknowledged that you RIGHTFULLY spoke against lying, which you did not see fit to mention in your tirade.  But after speaking against it, you thanked a fellow JW for “pointing out”, what amounted to lies.  Whether or not you knew he is lying, I can’t say for certain. But either way, he has a long history of it, and you have chosen to support him in his mannerisms….So yes, at the end of the day, Rando lied and you thanked him for pointing out things that were lies.

Your words are right there for everyone to see.  That’s why it pays to be careful about who you lend credence to, and not just do so because they claim to be a JW.

So no, you are not going to turn this around into ME lying.  I didn’t “thank” Rando for his comments…you did.  I showed them to be false, based on the evidence that any of us have.

If you have a REAL problem with lying, then RENOUNCE it, according to 2 Corinthians 4:2.…

“But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.”

It shouldn’t matter if it comes from a JW, or not.



SISTER T:  “Just because he puts up a pic of where someone is, doesn't mean anything, there is no way he can prove that Dee is who she says she is....He can't prove it!!”

REPLY:  Another glimpse into the JW mindset.  It is perfectly fine for Rando to make false statements that he can’t offer any PROOF for, he puts up NO evidence at all, and T is crying about my not “proving” anything?

For that matter, how can we “prove” that Sister T is who she says SHE is?  DW?  Anybody?  

But again, they have a twisted way of thinking.  You don’t get to slander people because you think they can’t PROVE the slander isn’t true.  No, if you slander them, you should prove that it IS true.  

What Sister T does here, is create a diversion.  The issue is not whether Dee is who she says she is.  I believe she is…no evidence has been given to the contrary.  But the issue is…Is Dee the same person as Luis?  That, I know for a fact, that she isn’t.  

Sister T actually changes the subject here.  Whether Dee is who she says she is, is really a study, or whatever, is not the point.  Rando claimed she is Luis, despite that their writing styles are nothing alike in the least, and I happen to know that they are not the same person.  If it turns out that Dee is actually Hillary Clinton, that has no bearing on the fact that Rando lied about her being Luis.


SISTER T:  “Second evil thing from Derrick:

He calls Bro Rando a liar for saying Dee is Luis....

Well then what he said about you Bro DW is a lie. Derrick said this:

"DW, or should I call you "Prophet Jedediah" from TOPIX, you are so hilarious."

So the double standard of Derrick is it's OK for him to LIE and say, you, Bro DW is Prophet Jedediah, but when Bro. Rando said Dee was Luis, then he's a liar?? That makes Derrick a liar and in agreement with Dee's wrong doing.

Derrick is doing exactly the same thing that he accused Bro Rando of doing! Evil tactic. Proof he is on here to cause trouble!”


REPLY:  Nice try, Sister T.  On turning things around, that is.  But it didn’t work.  Here’s why….If I am wrong in my suspicion, then I will be happy to admit such, and retract.  Nobody on your side will do that.  There’s the difference.

About this “Prophet Jedediah” thing.  I will say this.  DW did not come out and deny being this person.  And if he isn’t this person, it would be the most amazing set of coincidences in the history of mankind, and I certainly hope this Jedediah dude never kills anyone, or DW will be the prime suspect.  Both from UK, both were Witnesses, left, and came back.  Both have family who they call “apostate”.  Both like to call apostates “mentally diseased”.  Both claim to have “congregational responsibilities”, etc.  And those are just a few.

Even claimed to know an expert chess player from Brooklyn Bethel, which we ALL know who that person is, I would presume.

I had not visited the TOPIX site in quite some time, until being off of work last week.  I noticed this guy who had opened a profile there just this month, so apparently was new to the site.  Claimed he had been “sent” there by the Society, much like another expert here claims about this site.  Has so many coincidences and similarities with DW, that if Dee and Luis had that many similarities, you people would be stating it as FACT that they are the same…Rando stated it anyway, WITHOUT ANY similarities.

Well, I messaged the guy privately, and also asked him on the public board if he was DW.  He simply ignored the question and didn’t want to answer.

But with all that, I didn’t state for a “FACT” that it was him.  I simply asked DW “Should I call you Prophet Jedediah”?

How is that lying, T?  How is that doing the same thing Rando is doing, when he made his comments as FACTS.  I asked a question.  

Now, I still think DW is being evasive, but hey…I want to be fair.  DW said he “doesn’t do TOPIX”.  I have also not been able to find another post from Prophet Jethro on TOPIX since DW said that, and he WAS posting quite regularly.  So the POSSIBILITY is there that DW simply gave it up on TOPIX.

But if DW can state right now that he is NOT the same person that posted on TOPIX as “Prophet Jedediah”, then I will take his word for that, even though he has been dishonest on other issues, and I will accept that he is not that person.  And I will be HAPPY to acknowledge such.

Fair enough, Sister T?  And when I do that, I will expect Rando to come out of hiding, and do the same for all the lies he has told about “this person being that person”, etc.  Because he ALWAYS gets it wrong…EVERY time.  I rarely miss.  But hey, I’m human.  I can be wrong.  


SISTER T:  “We see how Derrick agrees with Dee, but yet instill Dee lies on the Witnesses constantly, even lied about our time, talks bad about other experts on here, but Derrick seems fine with lies from other people as long as they are lies against Jehovah's Witnesses or the ones he doesn't like, the ones who don't let him get away with his slander. He condones lies and lies himself about Witnesses, but then turns around and tries to counsel us about lying.

Since Derrick is an expert on a forum for Questions to Jehovah's Witnesses, when Dee lied about the time, when she lied about other things that have to do with JW's beliefs, how come Derrick didn't correct her? He's supposed to be an expert and can answer questions about JW's, if he is such an expert he would have corrected Dee, but he did not.”


REPLY:  Just more over-the-top hypocrisy from Sister T.  First off, I don’t “condone” lying.  That statement was a lie itself.  Sister T will find nowhere that I have ever condoned lying.

Now, here’s the hypocrisy…T is all to pieces for my not correcting Dee about the “keeping time” thing, and that is proof that I condone lying.  Yet, T did not correct Rando for lying and claiming that Dee is Luis, because she claims that she would have to first know that it was false.

Well, Rando has only been doing the same thing for 5 years now.  EVERYONE knows what he does…did you not, Sister T?

Secondly, I didn’t correct Dee because she GOES to the KH and I do not.  I have no idea about the time thing.  I never said it was true, or that it wasn’t.  Find ANYWHERE, Sister T, that I even once said the Witnesses were keeping time here.  I have no idea.  

If you bother to read my profile, Sister T, I state quite clearly that my AREA OF EXPERTISE is in DOCTRINAL matters, and how they compare with the Bible.  On Organizational practice and non-doctrinal matters, I usually refer those questions to someone else.  I don’t claim to be an expert in that area, and I don’t attempt to give definite answers to those issues…

Again, you try to twist things, in your extreme emotional stress, and desire to discredit me as a liar.

So no, I didn’t correct Dee.  WT procedure changes from time to time.  I focus on the main doctrines, not minor changes in procedure or practice.  Why would I correct someone who knows, and goes to the Kingdom Hall, when I do not?

Also, did you not even notice that I actually ASKED Dee because I found it so incredible, that Rando could count time for posting lies about someone in the public forum, and counting time for Jehovah, while doing something Jehovah hates?

I would appreciate it if you would not “selectively quote” me in the future, and refrain from your twisting of my words.  I do not often forget what I said, Sister T.  I am the wrong person to try that with.


SISTER T:  “Derrick is biased, he's not a JW, never has been”

REPLY:  That’s interesting, Sister T.  Your fellow “honest” JW Rando stated….

“Derick Holland is an Apostate…..Derrick profile is completely false. He was a baptized brother who turned against Jehovah. His mom is no JW."

Now, which is it, Sister T?  Both of these statements cannot be true.

That’s the problem when you have a group of people so determined to discredit someone by whatever means necessary…You cannot even get your own stories straight amongst yourselves.

But you know what's funny about Sister T saying I was never a JW?  Because Rando said I WAS a JW, and I am the one who says that I wasn't.  In other words, MY word against HIS.  So Sister T was unwittingly recognizing that MY word is better than Rando's on that one...LOL.

Thanks, Sister T.  And for once, YOU are in the right in your assessment...I was never a JW.


Now, to address a few comments by DW:


DW:  “One of the big problems with Derrick is he's a total hypocrite the things he calls lies he does constantly. Like the example you mentioned about me being on Topix and when he said Bro Rando wrote to me about something.

Now you see I wouldn't call them lies for the reason that a lie is a DELIBERATE false statement. I wouldn't say they are deliberate false statements however according to Derricks standards of lying they are, so that makes him a liar and a hypocrite by his own standards.”


REPLY:  That was weak, and completely contradictory.  My standards about “lying” are what they always have been.  A lie is either a direct false statement, or a statement made with the INTENT on misleading or deception.  I do not call an honest mistake a “lie”.

Listen, you 3...And get this good, if you can…If you people ever showed the decency and HUMILITY to CORRECT your own false statements, instead of coming up with stupid excuses for your lying like “internet scramblers”, then you wouldn’t get accused of LYING.

You get accused of lying when you make false statements, and when corrected, you refuse to make it right, and instead justify it by claiming the person who exposed you is a “liar” themselves.

This really isn’t hard to understand.  If Rando came out of his tree today, and said, “Okay, maybe I was wrong about Dee and Luis”, the whole thing would be dropped.  That is, until he did it again.  He has done this same thing for 5 years, while HIMSELF writing questions to his own profile under other names.  

Now, I am glad that DW acknowledges that a lie is actualy a deliberate false statement.  Unfortunately, NEITHER of the examples he gave, were deliberate false statements from me.  Nor were they DIRECT statements.  One was a QUESTION, and the other I qualified myself by saying I wasn’t completely sure.

DW has short-term memory loss, evidently.  He tends to forget things quite quickly after they are said.

His example when he stated….”he said Bro Rando wrote to me about something.”

Now, unless he is referring to another instance, he is not telling the complete truth here.  I am unable to find where I SAID that Rando wrote the link, in regards to the questioner named Christaras.  I said I BELIEVE it came from Rando, although it was not identified as such.

Here is a DIRECT quote from what I actually said.  DW, you and your Sister T read this, and explain how you get that I said that “Rando sent you this”.

I wrote:  “Now, I believe that both of these were from Rando. However, to be fair, the first one was not identified as being from Rando, but was written like a Rando-type question. There is a possibility that some other JW may have written it, such as the anonymous John 2:19 questioner who is also too scared to write me with his questions, just like Rando is. And that is ASSUMING that Rando and the anonymous questioner are not the same person, which is a big assumption.

In the first link, it seems to have Rando’s fingerprints all over it, even though it is not identified as being from him.”


DW, do you see or are you blinded by a spell of some sort, where I stated quite clearly…

“There is a possibility that some other JW may have written it”

“first one was not identified as being from Rando”

“In the first link, it seems to have Rando’s fingerprints all over it, even though it is not identified as being from him.”


Now DW, I take MANY more precautions in my wording than ANY of you do, to make sure my statements are accurate.  You on the other hand, are trying to excuse YOURSELF for claiming I write to myself pretending to be someone else, and talking about my vacation habits, by saying you were merely “giving an opinion”.  

Now, you look at how I word my comments, and how you word yours, and it is clear who was “giving their opinion”, and who was stating something as a “fact”.

Nowhere in YOUR comments, did you say…”This is my opinion”, or “This is just what I think”.  No, you stated it as fact.

Let’s quote you again, DW.  This time, I will quote your entire writing to Sister T….

DW:  “Hi Sis

Did you see Derrick writing to himself again??

Your reasonably new on the board but let me tell you what happens with Derrick every time he suffers an embarrassing defeat.

1)He writes to himself pretending to be someone else.

2)He goes on a vacation.

hahahahahaha.

Because you have now defeated him like Me, Benyamin and Bro Rando he's attacking you!! What a laugh, Derrick Holland the comical pastor. hahhaha

Well done Sis.

Keep up the good work

Agape

Bro DW


REPLY:  Now, it is amusing to watch DW flop around like a fish out of water, now that someone wrote and asked me to post examples of lies, and I actually DID it.

DW’s excuse for his failure to post his “list”, is that “You know I just haven't got the time to go through the archives picking out quotes and lies from Derrick.”

Archives?  I thought you said you had a “list” of them, DW?  Even have an exact number (5 or 6) in your “list.”  How long does a “list” take to pull up on your computer?  

You also said you were going to “post them every few months”, for the new readers to see.  But NOW, you are telling us you would have to “search the archives”?

This is downright hilarious.

DW, you have no “list”.  You have nothing but your daily-repeated false accusations.  Give it up.  I have challenged you time and time again, to post your list, which you CLAIMED to have.  Now, you tell us you don’t have time to search the archives.  

Who didn’t see THAT predictable excuse coming?

But back to DW’s above writing to Sister T, which he now CLAIMS was just stating “an opinion”.

Uhm, I’m sorry DW, but I don’t see the word “opinion”, “think”, “believe”, or any other such qualitative statement, to indicate that you were merely giving an “opinion”.

I mean, you even titled the question “DERRICK WRITING TO HIMSELF AGAIN!!”, for Pete’s sake.  Nothing there indicating “an opinon”.  

In fact, your title was a lie, and you proceeded to tell 3 lies, just in the body of your writing.  You stated as a FACT:

1.  That I write myself, pretending to be someone else.  That is a lie.  I have never done that even once.

2.  That I go on vacation, because of what occurs on this board.  That is a lie…I go on vacation when I have vacation time, and my vacations are normally reserved and planned months in advance.  My wife and I enjoy many short week-end trips to the mountains near our house, throughout the year.  I don’t have to explain or defend that to you.

You lied…I have never placed myself “on vacation” to avoid anything on the board.  Not like you guys want to contact me when I’m gone anyway…How “thick” can you possibly be?

3.  That I am a pastor….I have told you about 5 times now, that I am not a Pastor.  How more times do I need to tell you?

And if my memory serves me correctly, you were asked by another question if you would apologize for your blunder, and you said “No”.  Isn’t that correct?

What about now, DW?  Will you NOW retract your statement?

If you are not the same guy who was writing as Prophet Jedediah, then I will HAPPILY acknowledge my wrong assumption.  Now, will you do the same?  And will you encourage Rando to do the same?

It has nothing to do with what we may BELIEVE or THINK…I personally think you ARE that guy on Topix, you may personally THINK that I write myself, and Rando (for whatever reason) may THINK that Dee is Luis.  But I can’t prove you are Prophet Jed, so I will be happy to acknowledge that here and now.

Now, your turn.


DW:  “But you see Derrick also say's in his reply that Bro Rando wrote to me with the link that to that letter, when that's not the case. It was a Sister who wrote to me about it.

But I'm not gonna sit here and say Derrick lied about that, he made a false assumption. I can't prove it. But even so i wouldn't call it a lie. I'd say it's a false assumption .”


REPLY:  Again, this was dealt with above.  I didn’t SAY that Rando wrote it, if indeed we are talking about the same instance.  If there is another one, please make me aware of it.


DW:  “A lie in my book would be something said deliberately with the intent to deceive.

But you know even so this whole "she said", "he said" stuff is very childish it belongs on the playground with the kids .not here among grown adults.”


REPLY:  FINALLY!  Something I can agree with you on 100%!

And that being said, I have never one time in 12 years, made ANY statement with the slightest attempt to deceive anyone.  So by your own definition, which is CORRECT by the way, I am not a liar in any way, shape, or form.

And you are correct….this whole thing is stupid, but you people keep forcing my hand to bring this out.  

Here’s some advice…Just stop posting slanderous and false remarks about people, that you don’t even know.  And tell Rando to grow up and stop doing it too.  The fact is, you all SIGNED UP for this forum.  And when dealing with the internet, you NEVER know who a person is, or what their real story is.  You give the benefit of the doubt….period.

This need to slander everyone who disagrees with you, is pathetic.  

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Derrick Holland

Expertise

I was raised in the religion known as Jehovah`s Witnesses for 13 years. Since becoming a born-again Christian, I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history. I can answer questions about their doctrines from the perspective of Biblical Christianity. To be clear: Jehovahs Witnesses is the religion of my upbringing, though I myself was never baptized into the religion, nor have I ever been considered as a Jehovahs Witness.

Experience

29 years of Biblical research into the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, and how they differ from the teachings of the Watchtower.

Organizations
I would advise each questioner to this forum, to carefully READ the profiles of the various volunteers. There are several such as myself, who are not practicing JWs, but will provide you with an accurate and honest answer, regarding JW teaching. If we don't know the answer, we will try to research and get it for you. There are also some excellent practicing JWs here, who also endeavor to give you a factual and honest answer, based on their point of view. I believe by getting both points of view, the questioner can weigh the evidence for themselves, and make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are also 3 here who claim to be JWs, but do NOT give honest, or well-researched answers. They will tell you only what they want you to believe, and they often hide facts about the history of their religion, as well as print untruths about other people's beliefs. This is done in an attempt to deceive the unsuspecting reader. It can be easily seen who these 3 are, simply by reading the public posts and "answers" which they write. Their posts will normally be filled with personal attacks, and if you question them about some teaching or aspect of the Watchtower that makes them uncomfortable, they will often reject your question, question your motives for asking it, tell you that you have been reading "apostate" sites, or turn the conversation into an attack on another expert. These ones are better avoided, as there is nothing to be gained by way of positive discussion, as they are not interested in intelligent conversation, or honest dialogue. If after reading the forum, you still have any questions as to who they are, just ask me, and I will be happy to tell you. And I can also provide documentation of their willful dishonesty. One thing is for certain...in a forum where people from both sides claim to be "Christians", there should never be any willful lying. Such ones only create a distraction in the forum, and provide nothing of any real value.

Education/Credentials
High School, some college. Studies of God's Word, the Bible, and how it compares to JW theology. I have found my own personal study and experiences to be far more valuable than any formal education or training. The Bible message is clear...Salvation is ONLY through and by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and no religious organization has a thing to do with it. While attendance at a Bible-preaching, Bible-believing church is a must for spiritual growth and fellowship, no church can grant salvation to its members. Nor is joining a particular group a prerequisite for being saved.

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