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Jehovah`s Witness/You drop yourself in it every time!!


Why don't you deny to all the readers that you sent me a letter entitled HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!

Also saying that you wanted me to pass it on to Bro Rando but he was maxed out.

Add this to all the other times when I first started on the board that you wanted to stir trouble between me and Benyamin.

So why don't you deny that trouble making letter Derrick

I reject you because I finished you off long ago your reputation is sunk and destroyed. I don't need to beat a dead man. But the trouble is Derrick you drop yourself in it every time and so I have to embarrass you.

Understand you bring this on yourself.

Now this is the last time I will talk to you on any subject I will follow Bro Randos example and ignore you every time

Do not write to me again you bald face liar and hypocrite

I think it's about time I did a post documenting all the lies you've given on this board for the new readers

Bro DW

Well hello, DW!  I am fine, thanks for asking.  I hope you are well too.

My, my, you seem upset.  Are you upset, DW?  I can only imagine you are, after making yourself look so foolish in the forum, by lying and defending the lies of your brethren.  I'm sorry about that, but what did you expect?  Also, I take it that you are upset about my posting of my question to you, and your silly little rejection because you couldn't answer it.  Again, sorry about that, but you shouldn't have rejected it.  I did the right thing by confronting you directly, and first giving you the opportunity.  That's how I work...always have, always will.  When you refused to answer, I posted it myself.  You left me no other choice...just can't let you lie and slander, and let it go unaddressed.

Now, let me address your tantrum, point by point.

DW:  "Why don't you deny to all the readers that you sent me a letter entitled HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!

Also saying that you wanted me to pass it on to Bro Rando but he was maxed out."

REPLY:  (Sigh) This only proves the extremely short nature of your memory.  Where have you been, DW?  I just TOLD the readers I wrote you that....5 days ago, to be exact.  Here, let me provide you the quote, from 12/4/12, under the title "SISTER T? MANIPULATIVE?".  You have already read this, but apparently have forgotten.

I wrote..."To Mr. Grunbaum’s credit, I also feel this is worth mentioning.  Back on November 21st, I sent a Happy Thanksgiving and well-wishes comment to both DW and Benyamin Grunbaum, and asked DW to pass it on to Rando, as well (since Rando is always Maxed Out).  Both Grunbaum and DW replied shortly thereafter.  

To Mr. Grunbaum’s credit, he was very kind, courteous, cordial, and polite.  While I have seen the side of him that Dee and others have pointed out, I must say that on that particular occasion, he was quite pleasant.  He answered with respect, and quite honestly, I was quite impressed with his answer and felt somewhat better about him.

DW, on the other hand, went all to pieces.  He was quite rude and hateful, which is about what we have come to respect.  His reply, in effect, was….”I reject your Satanic celebration, and I reject your zombie Jesus”.

So, while both experts can be rude, there is still quite a maturity difference between the two.  At least one of them KNOWS HOW to be polite, and has it in him to do so on occasion."


This has been in the forum for 5 days now, DW, and you are wanting me to deny it?  However, it wasn't an attempt to cause trouble.  It was an attempt to be nice, in spite of our obvious differences.  I'm actually quite thankful for my blessings, and what Christ has done for me.  I get no joy out of your obvious miserable and bitter nature.  

Your reaction, which I will now post in full, only shows your hate and your obvious immaturity.  I also sent the same thing to Benyamin Grunbaum, and he answered like a nice gentleman, which is far more than I can say about you.

And BY THE WAY, DW, I did not send that as "Private".  You could have responded, and it would have been just as "Public" as this writing will be.  But you rejected it, remember?  See, you can't even tell the truth about anything.  I asked you to post PRIVATE writings BEHIND THE SCENES, which indicate I am trying to cause trouble.  And you come back with a "PUBLIC" writing, which I myself have already made reference to in another PUBLIC answer?

Not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed, are you, DW?

Now, since you brought up the Happy Thanksgiving writing, I will now post both responses that I received.  The one from Benyamin Grunbaum, and the one from you.  Readers will notice the vast difference in maturity levels here.


"2 Corinthians 9:10-11.…..

“Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for [your] food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;)

Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.”

Wishing you and yours the joy of a relationship with the RISEN Christ, and His blessings upon your family.



"Thank you Sir for the glad tidings and I wish you and yours health ,wealth and peace.

I'm glad we can put our differences aside if but for one hour.

Your fellow board member


"Your Question was:

2 Corinthians 9:10-11.…..

“Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for [your] food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;)

Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.”

Wishing you and yours the joy of a relationship with the RISEN Christ, and His blessings upon your family.


P.S. I wanted to send this to Rando as well, but he is always "Maxed Out". DW, would you pass this message on to him, as well? Thanks so much!"


Hello! The expert can't answer your question.

(But in the rejection, DW typed this sweet message...)

"I reject your satanic celebrations!!!!

Isaiah 52:

11 "Turn away, turn away, get out of there, touch nothing unclean; get out from the midst of her, keep yourselves clean, YOU who are carrying the utensils of Jehovah"

Rev 18:

4 "Get out of her, my people, if YOU do not want to share with her in her sins, and if YOU do not want to receive part of her plagues"

and I reject your zombie Jesus

John 2:

18 Therefore, in answer, the Jews said to him: “What sign have you to show us, since you are doing these things?” 19 In answer Jesus said to them: “Break down this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” 20 Therefore the Jews said: “This temple was built in forty-six years, and will you raise it up in three days?” 21 But he was talking about the TEMPLE of his body"

1 cor 3:

16 "Do YOU not know that YOU people are God’s temple, and that the spirit of God dwells in YOU? 17 If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] YOU people are"

Rev 21:

22 And I did not see a temple in it, for Jehovah God the Almighty is its temple, also the Lamb [is]"

1 cor 15:

45 "It is even so written: “The first man Adam became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit"

Expert: Bro DW


Well, I guess we can all see who the trouble-maker is here.  You got some growing up to do, DW.  Mr. Grunbaum has as many harsh differences with me as you do, but he at least had enough decency to take it for what it was, and give a cordial and friendly reply.  You, on the other hand, acted like a jerk.  

Okay, next you wrote....

DW:  "Add this to all the other times when I first started on the board that you wanted to stir trouble between me and Benyamin."

REPLY:  That's another lie.  Didn't try to start trouble with you and Benyamin.  You had taken up for his rudeness to questioners, and I simply asked you how you could endorse that type of behavior.  I also asked you the same about Rando, even documenting for you his lies so that you could see them, since it was you who took it upon yourself to call me a liar.  I was merely holding you to your own standard, which you failed to uphold. If you're gonna label me a liar in public, then I'm gonna make you come face to face with JW lies as well, to see if you operate under a double-standard.  And we have learned that you do.  I clearly wrote you about Rando's lies, and even gave examples of them.  I then asked you straight up if you condone or uphold such, and you danced around the question like a man standing in the midst of a campfire.  

Now, in reference to your claiming that I tried to cause problems between you and Benyamin.  You are simply not being honest, yet again.  During that period of time, Benyamin was being especially rude to questioners, and on an almost daily basis.  Many people were writing the board, and ME, complaining about it.  Then, you came on there and basically took up for it.  Nobody was asking you to throw him under the bus as a brother.  But not to go along with unchristian rudeness, either.  Now, I did write to you, and ONCE AGAIN, I believe if you will check you will see that I did not write you in PRIVATE that time, either.  That is my recollection, anyway.  Check for yourself.  If I am not mistaken, you "rejected" that one also.

Now, I admit it has been awhile back, but if I remember correctly, I still did not initially post my letter to you and your rejection.  However, I then was written by a questioner, in regards to your comment that you didn't label Myself and Ben Erdman as "stupid", but ONLY because we had not been so foolish as to challenge you to a Scriptural debate.  At that time, I did publish what I had written to you, and which you had rejected.  I did so, because I didn't feel you were being forthright.

Here are the links I am referring to:

Now, if you have evidence that I have tried to cause trouble between you two, then POST it!  You make more hollow, false, and empty accusations than anyone I have ever seen, with the exception of Rando.  Yes, I addressed you IN PUBLIC, when you tried to educate the world on "satanic apostate tactics" of attacking the messenger and not the message, when one of your own was doing that very thing on an almost daily basis to their questioners. So yes, I called you out on your implications towards us, and your comments where you didn't exactly call my name out initially, but we all knew who you were talking about.

Don't start the trouble, DW, and you won't have any.  Contrary to what you like to falsely tell people here, ask the other NICE JWs if they have ever had any issues with me, or if I approach them.  Ask Mr. Hepburn, Mr. Spears, Be Reasonable, etc.  But when somebody comes here and makes slanderous remarks at me, either outright or implied, then I will address it.  

So yes, I deny ever attempting to cause a rift between you and Grunbaum.  That would have been pointless, as you had already gone on record saying your supported him.

DW:  "So why don't you deny that trouble making letter Derrick"

REPLY:  I just did.  Now DW, I am not exactly new at this.  I am pretty wise to how you operate.  

So, instead of writing to me, asking me to DENY something, JUST ACCEPT THE CHALLENGE I ISSUED YOU AND POST IT.  If you have something by way of a "Private" writing from me causing trouble, which you JUST TOLD the readers of this forum, happens "behind the scenes"....THEN POST IT.

Real simple.  Don't come crying to me, because you really don't have anything to post.  You could have done so when I wrote you 2 days ago, but you declined.  That is not my fault...I gave you the opportunity.

DW:  "I reject you because I finished you off long ago your reputation is sunk and destroyed. I don't need to beat a dead man. But the trouble is Derrick you drop yourself in it every time and so I have to embarrass you."

REPLY:  Yeah, that is what you WANT to believe, and have to keep reassuring yourself of.  The fact is, you were throttled in the resurrection discussion, you have been caught lying and slandering and employing your OWN satanic character attacks on a regular basis, you have done exactly as I predicted you would do over and over, and you reject me because I call you out on your lies, and you have nothing to back them up.

And people are noticing too, by the way.

My reputation is just fine, because all you have are made-up accusations, NONE of which you can substantiate.  You have made your bluffs about a "Scriptural mauling", and have delivered nothing of the sort.

Now, this all COULD go away for you, if you only had the sense to stop your lying and false accusations in the forum.  But as long as you continue it, you will continue to look foolish.  Your choice.  

You see, DW, my not being a JW does not mean you are going to slander me, and I am supposed to just sit back and take it.  I am not in your congregation, and you have no authority to tell me what to do, what to say, or when to say it.  You falsely attack me with your lies, and I will turn it back on you.  I would rather not have to, but you make it necessary.

No DW, YOU bring it on YOURSELF.  Outside of you and your little group, nobody is looking at this board and thinking you are proving anything, or making sense.  You are simply slow at figuring that out.

DW:  "Now this is the last time I will talk to you on any subject I will follow Bro Randos example and ignore you every time"

REPLY:  That would be wise on your part.  So, I take it that means that you are NOT going to "maul" me after all?  That is precisely what I predicted back on 11/20....

"MY PREDICTION: We will see NONE of these things from you, whether you take 2 weeks or 2 MONTHS off. What we will see, are more accusations from you of “satanic character attacks” accompanied by NO examples of such, more name-calling, more insults aimed at my intelligence, and more tantrums fitting of a 5 year-old child.

But I am quite positive we will not see a “Scriptural mauling”.

So since my writing that nearly 3 weeks ago, we have seen you do the very things I predicted you would...You have continued to make false accusations of "character attacks" without listing even ONE, you have continued the name calling (even in this writing of yours), you have continued to insult my intelligence, and you have continued to throw childish tantrums...exactly as I said that you would.

You're predictable, DW.  VERY predictable.

But hey, that is fine.  I am for making peace.  I think you owe me several apologies, which I know you will not humble yourself and show enough integrity to offer.  I will happily forgive you, and in fact, I do anyway.  But I'm just not going to let your slanders go unaddressed.  If I saw you on the road tomorrow with a flat tire, and knew who you were, I would still stop and offer to help you.  That's just how I am.

Now, as for acting like Rando, you already act like Rando.  Only problem with your statement, is that Rando doesn't exactly "ignore" me.  Granted, he doesn't have the guts to confront me either.  But he doesn't ignore me.  He instead, asks me questions THROUGH you and Sister T.  What a grown up man that is.  And then claims "Derrick couldn't answer the question".

That is of no consequence to me, because Rando has had enough dealings with me that he knows I will answer his questions, and then give him question that make him look foolish. That is the reason he ignores me, and you know that too.  

So, do what you wish in that regard, DW.  You have lied, and I have exposed it.  I am satisfied, and if there is nothing else forthcoming from you or Sister T that I will have to address, then I am happy about that.  

DW:  "Do not write to me again you bald face liar and hypocrite"

REPLY:  Well, that depends.  The reason Rando and your anonymous John 2:19 questioner do not write directly to me, but address questions to me, THROUGH you, is because they are afraid.  The reason I write directly to you, is because I am not afraid of you, or what you might say.  

My answer to this request of yours, will be exactly the same as it was back when you joined this forum, and told me not to write you again.  If you don't lie, slander, or defame my name in the forum, then I will have no reason to.

If you persist in what you have been doing, I certainly will write you and challenge you to substantiate what you write with facts.  That is actually the RIGHT thing to do...write you directly, and give you opportunity to set things straight.  You are not the only person I do this with, and I will not cease to do it just because it makes you go all to pieces.  So if you don't want me to write you, then you will not slander and lie about me.

You informed me last time I said that, that you would mention my name when you see fit, and then said some nonsense about not "being a mug", whatever that means.  Okay continue to slander me, and I will address you.  If you don't, then I have no reason to.

Again, your choice.

So, whether I write you or not, will be determined by your future actions.

DW:  " I think it's about time I did a post documenting all the lies you've given on this board for the new readers"

REPLY:  Yes, I think so too.  In fact, I have only challenged you to do so about 20 times this week.  Glad you're finally getting the message.

Besides, nobody could write a post long enough to document all your lies, DW.  You claim that I have 5, now?  Well, I haven't old ANY, but you have told far more than 5 THIS WEEK.  And along with Rando's lies, which are already well-documented, and can be again if need be, well you go right ahead.  

And when you do, people can see how desperate you are to prove me a liar, with the silly things you have to twist and use to make into a "lie".  Seriously, you have nothing.  I am not worried in the least about what you may write, because I am honest man, and do not lie.  I have never practiced lying in my 12 years on this board, and you think you are going to show up and TWIST a few of my statements into something that I am supposed to be worried about?

So you go ahead with your post, and if necessary, I will post and DOCUMENT with proof, your lies.  Can't wait to see how that one turns out.

If you want for us to document the other one's "lies", then go for it.  I'm ready.  You first, and then I will respond to your allegations, and then do some documenting of my own.  I have nothing to hide, if you don't.  

You know why, DW?  Because I have seen your so-called "lies" from me, and they are laughable.  You have to TWIST what was actually said, then put your own spin on it, to even make it APPEAR like a lie.  Is that supposed to scare me?

Let me see if I can remember what they are....Your first twisting of my comments, was in regards to your false claim that I said it does me a service for people to see your rudeness, because it keeps them from accepting the truth.  That was a lie on your part, because that is not what I said.  I explained your error then, but rather than admit you blundered, you had to stick with it because you are full of pride, and NEEDED something against me.

But the fact remained, you twisted what I said.  I don't acknowledge your religion as "truth", so that fact in itself renders your whole argument as silly.  I actually said that their seeing your (and other rude JWs) mannerisms, keeps them from falling into the ERROR, not the truth.  Goodness, Man..think!

Let's see, there was also the comment from Sal (talk about being desperate for anything you can get), about my claiming the WT never denied being inspired prophets prior to 1950, or something like that.  Well, I never said that either.  I was mocking the use of a late quote, when there were earlier ones that should have been used, to substantiate the "in the beginning" comment.  Again, that was a feeble attempt to find a lie, because there was NO false statement.

Then there was the one where I said that JWs see the "7 times" of Nebuchadnezzar as a key to prophecy, rather than an event that happened in Nebuchadnezzar's life.  When this was pointed out, I believe I acknowledged that I should have said "JUST an event in Nebuchadnezzar's life, as this would have made what I was saying more clear.  Really now, if you are so desperate that you have to harp on my leaving out ONE word in a LONG answer that I had spent hours on, and that is your example of a "lie", then have at it, Man.

So yes, my comment should have been clarified better, but I went back and CORRECTED that to make it clearer.  That is actually a sign of INTEGRITY, something you know nothing about.  I am YET to see you correct ONE of your lies about me.  Anybody can inadvertently leave out a word...but an honest person will have no problem clarifying the statement.  That is exactly what I did.  I give you people the same opportunity, and would happily accept your clarification if you ever offered it...But you are perfectly happy to let your lies stand.  If I say something inaccurate, I am happy to correct it.

That is far from being a "liar", DW.

Then, there was the little matter of the "Follow Up" button, which your JW friend "Bill" falsely accused me of removing.  There was nothing even resembling a lie there, but you tried to twist it into one.

Forgive me, but I seem to be forgetting the 5th one at the moment.

Please write your post, DW.  I can hardly wait to make you look even more desperate than you already do.

And just note this....Your accusation that both you, and SISTER T, have been saying, is that I CONSTANTLY twist, spew hate and lies about YOUR BELIEFS.

So, while you're at it, how about showing some examples of that too.

Document away, DW.  That's precisely what I've been challenging you to do for a long time now.

Take care, DW.  I sincerely pray for you, and hope that you come to know the risen Christ, in the fellowship of His sufferings, and in the power of His resurrection.  He can give you peace and joy, in place of the hate and bitterness, and the venom that you display on this forum.  He shed His blood for every one of your lies, and your sins, DW.  It is not His will that you die lost and be separate from Him, but that is exactly what is going to happen to you, if you continue on the path you are on.  He wants you to be saved, as I do, and as the other born again Christians here do as well.

I hope you are well, and hope that one day you will be my brother in Christ Jesus.  Your salvation is not in this false Organization, DW.  It is in the Person of Jesus Chris, Who truly IS the way, THE TRUTH, and the life.  

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Derrick Holland


I was raised in the religion known as Jehovah`s Witnesses for 13 years. Since becoming a born-again Christian, I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history. I can answer questions about their doctrines from the perspective of Biblical Christianity. To be clear: Jehovahs Witnesses is the religion of my upbringing, though I myself was never baptized into the religion, nor have I ever been considered as a Jehovahs Witness.


29 years of Biblical research into the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, and how they differ from the teachings of the Watchtower.

I would advise each questioner to this forum, to carefully READ the profiles of the various volunteers. There are several such as myself, who are not practicing JWs, but will provide you with an accurate and honest answer, regarding JW teaching. If we don't know the answer, we will try to research and get it for you. There are also some excellent practicing JWs here, who also endeavor to give you a factual and honest answer, based on their point of view. I believe by getting both points of view, the questioner can weigh the evidence for themselves, and make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are also 3 here who claim to be JWs, but do NOT give honest, or well-researched answers. They will tell you only what they want you to believe, and they often hide facts about the history of their religion, as well as print untruths about other people's beliefs. This is done in an attempt to deceive the unsuspecting reader. It can be easily seen who these 3 are, simply by reading the public posts and "answers" which they write. Their posts will normally be filled with personal attacks, and if you question them about some teaching or aspect of the Watchtower that makes them uncomfortable, they will often reject your question, question your motives for asking it, tell you that you have been reading "apostate" sites, or turn the conversation into an attack on another expert. These ones are better avoided, as there is nothing to be gained by way of positive discussion, as they are not interested in intelligent conversation, or honest dialogue. If after reading the forum, you still have any questions as to who they are, just ask me, and I will be happy to tell you. And I can also provide documentation of their willful dishonesty. One thing is for a forum where people from both sides claim to be "Christians", there should never be any willful lying. Such ones only create a distraction in the forum, and provide nothing of any real value.

High School, some college. Studies of God's Word, the Bible, and how it compares to JW theology. I have found my own personal study and experiences to be far more valuable than any formal education or training. The Bible message is clear...Salvation is ONLY through and by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and no religious organization has a thing to do with it. While attendance at a Bible-preaching, Bible-believing church is a must for spiritual growth and fellowship, no church can grant salvation to its members. Nor is joining a particular group a prerequisite for being saved.

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