Jehovah`s Witness/Can you explain?
Since you oppose to JW's teaching about Jesus resurrection, could you please explain why christendom churches don't believe that Jesus was made alive in the "SPIRIT" yet in "FLESH"???? please consider:
“. . .Why, even Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous [person] for unrighteous ones, that he might lead YOU to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit. . .” (1 Peter 3:18)
"The first man Adam became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit" (1 Corinthians 15:45)
■See ?? JESUS "BECAME" a life-giving "SPIRIT" then how come HE IS NOT??? OK so for example he is made alive in the "FLESH"........So where is JESUS right now since "FLESH" and blood cannot inherit the KINGDOM OF GOD?????
“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.” (1 Corinthians 15) (KJV)
Hello, Justin. How are you? I appreciate your writing to me with your questions.
You ask..."Since you oppose to JW's teaching about Jesus resurrection, could you please explain why christendom churches don't believe that Jesus was made alive in the "SPIRIT" yet in "FLESH"???? please consider:"
REPLY: Justin, just where did you get your information, might I ask? Who told you that our churches don't teach this? Sounds like you got ahold of some bad information.
Actually Justin, it isn't just me who is opposed to the Watchtower's false teaching on the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ...the Bible is opposed to it. In fact, none of the verses you listed here, actually teach, say, or imply that Jesus' resurrection body was not flesh.
Furthermore, the Bible nowhere teaches what the WT does about the resurrection. For instance, the Bible does NOT say:
1. Christ giving His body as a sacrifice means that He could not be resurrected in that same body in a glorified form, or that would be taking back the ransom.
2. That Jesus' body was dissolved or removed from the tomb by ANY means, other than being resurrected.
So Justin, the real question here is, why does the Watchtower ARGUE with Jesus about His own body? You want to quote me these Scriptures which you believe are references to His resurrection body being a spirit, but what did Jesus say about it?
After His resurrection, He said in Luke 24:36-40-
"And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace [be] unto you.
But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them [his] hands and [his] feet."
So, since this is Jesus appearing in His post-resurrection body, and since He CORRECTED the disciple's false notion that he was a spirit, and actually told them He wasn't, then why do you still believe He was?
Here's the problem with the verses you listed, Justin....Actually, the verses aren't the problem. The problem is, the way they are being misapplied. We have the clear statement of Jesus about the nature of His resurrected body, and He told us clearly it was NOT a spirit. Now, when your interpretation of OTHER verses causes the Bible to contradict a PLAIN verse, then your interpretation is simply wrong. The Scriptures do not contradict.
So, what about your verses? Actually, those were answered in my post on this topic back in January, so I will provide you the links to that debate/discussion, as well as briefly address your Scriptures here, as well.
1 Peter 3:18- “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:”
The King James Bible which I use, renders this not as "made alive IN the spirit", but "quickened BY the Spirit". There is quite a difference in the 2 phrases. The 2nd rendering shows the Holy Spirit's role in the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. However, even in you wish to hold to the rendering "made alive in the spirit", it still does nothing to deny a physical resurrection of Christ, because the context of this passage is not referring to the period AFTER His resurrection, but rather, after His death. Read the very next verse...
v. 19- "By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;"
When placed in context, 1 Peter 3:18 does not contradict Jesus' statement in Luke 24, that His body was one of flesh and bones. So, even if you believe that it is saying that Jesus was “made alive in the spirit”, this would simply be stating that although His physical body died, His spirit did not cease to exist. And this view would harmonize perfectly with John 10:18 and John 2:19, where Jesus predicted that He would play a part in His own resurrection, which would be an impossible feat if He ceased to exist in the spirit.
Another point worth mentioning about this text, is that it would be helpful to consider the wording in Romans 8:8-9.…
“ So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”
Well, I think it is obvious that the phrase “in the spirit” does not mean that the people spoken of here are non-physical, spirit creatures walking around. Obviously, they WERE still people in fleshly bodies, but this is not speaking of their body at all. No, it refers to the concept of their walking by the power of God’s Holy Spirit. Jesus was put to death “in the flesh” —that is, in the fleshly realm of sinful man (not that He was sinful, but that He lived among sinners), and He was made alive “in the spirit”…that is, in the eternal (spiritual) realm, no longer bound to earthly life with all its limitations.
There is certainly nothing here that DENIES that the resurrected Christ had a body of flesh. His body is not even discussed here. That is an interpretation that has to be IMPOSED on the passage, not derived from it.
You also asked....""The first man Adam became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit" (1 Corinthians 15:45)"
REPLY: First off, Christians do not deny that the resurrected Christ was a “quickening/life giving spirit”. So, your question of "HOW COME HE IS NOT", was simply not based in fact. We simply deny that He was ONLY a spirit, without a glorified fleshly body. And sorry, but your text nowhere denies that He had a fleshly body. I think that it would be valuable once again to compare this passage, with one that I have already quoted, Luke 24:39.…
“for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.”
Here, Jesus Himself plainly denies being a spirit. In the passage quote above from 1 Corinthians 15:45, Paul says Christ was a “quickening spirit”. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that they are not talking about the same thing, nor using “spirit’ in the same manner. Now, in Luke 24:39, Jesus is OBVIOUSLY talking about His post-resurrection body, and tells us He is NOT a “spirit”. Paul is speaking in a different manner. The issue being discussed in 1 Corinthians 15:45 is not the substance of Christ's resurrection body, but rather, the source of its life, as verse 47 makes abundantly clear. Adam's life was natural, from earth; Christ's life was supernatural, from heaven. Indeed, "natural" and "supernatural" are excellent translations of the words which the NWT renders "physical" and "spiritual." The resurrection body is called ‘spiritual’ and ‘life-giving spirit’ because its source is the spiritual realm, not because its substance is immaterial. Christ’s supernatural resurrection body is ‘from heaven,’ as Adam’s natural body was ‘of the earth’ (v. 47).
So once again, we see that you really do not have anything in the Scripture that denies the physical resurrection of Christ. This passage merely states one aspect of what Christ IS, not what He was not, in regards to His resurrection body.
Let’s compare this with some other passages that mention people being “spirit” or “spiritual”, and see if we should understand this to mean that they do not have physical bodies.
1 Cor. 2:14-15- “But the NATURAL man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
But he that is SPIRITUAL judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.”
Do you wish to claim that the “spiritual” man in this verse is actually a disembodied spirit walking around with no physical body?
John 3:6- “That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
Speaking of those who are born again, the Bible in this passage describes those who are born of the Spirit as being ‘spirit”. Again, are these actual spirits walking around with no physical bodies?
One more point worth mentioning on this passage in 1 Corinthians 15:45, is this....
Notice that the passage presents a contrast, or a parallel between Christ and Adam. The passage reads again..."And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit."
Notice the parallel? When was Adam made a living soul? Was it at his coming INTO the world, or his resurrection? Well, since Adam was not resurrected, then that can't be it. So, it is apparent that Adam became a living soul at the beginning of his earthly existence when the breath of life was breathed into him, and likewise, Christ came into the world as a "life giving spirit". This is not a denial that He had a physical body....it is an affirmation that He came to give life to all who receive Him. Why is the WT even tying this passage in with His resurrection, and causing it to contradict Jesus' own statement about His own body?
So, why do they use this passage to insist that Jesus didn't have a physical body in the resurrection, when the passage is teaching nothing even close to that? Again, remember that Jesus Himself settled that matter for us, when He stated His resurrected body was flesh and bones, and NOT a spirit body.
You ask...."See ?? JESUS "BECAME" a life-giving "SPIRIT" then how come HE IS NOT??? OK so for example he is made alive in the "FLESH"........So where is JESUS right now since "FLESH" and blood cannot inherit the KINGDOM OF GOD?????"
REPLY: Again, nobody said He is "not". We simply maintain that this verse is misapplied in a way that causes it to contradict what Jesus Himself said about His body, and since Scriptures do not contradict, this interpretation must be wrong.
You make the point about Jesus being "made alive in the flesh"...But isn't that what Jesus said Himself, Justin? Isn't that what He said in Luke 24? In John 2? Isn't that what the angel showed us in Matthew 28:5-6?
To answer your question....Jesus is in Heaven. First off, the phrase "flesh and blood" is an idiomatic expression, meaning "sinful humanity". Jesus was not sinful humanity, either before or after His resurrection. He was perfect in all areas, did not inherit a sin nature as all other humans do, and His resurrection body was a glorified and immortal fleshly body.
Secondly, nobody said it was a body of flesh and blood. Jesus said "flesh and BONES". We simply choose to believe what Jesus said.
Thanks for writing, Justin. If you decide to write back for clarification, would you mind if I ask you the same questions you asked me?
1. Could you please explain why the Watchtower Society doesn't believe that Jesus raised in the flesh, even though He said He did?
2. If Jesus was a "flesh and bones" body as He said, then how come He is not?
Thanks for your consideration of these matters, Justin.