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This latest temper tantrum from DW, is hardly worth the few minutes I am going to spend on it.  The man did nothing he claimed he was going to do, and therefore, proved that his accusations are without credibility.  

So, in the future when he claims he has 5 lies, or 6 lies, or whatever the number is up to now, on Derrick Holland...We know one thing...He is lying, plain and simple.

We have witnessed yet ANOTHER post from DW, with nothing but accusations, and NO LIES, NO examples of character attacks, or anything "Satanic" coming from me.

He knows he has nothing, and that is why he wants to "quit" dicussing this. He has been shown up, and challenged numerous times to produce what he has on me, yet he has posted NOTHING.

HE WROTE.....

I fronted him last night about his trouble making to me in private.

The most recent issue was this.

One maybe two day's at the most after I wrote an answer on how Satanic thanksgiving is and how a true Christian should have nothing to do with it Derrick sends me a letter entitled HAPPY THANKSGIVING!! and asks me to pass his message on to Bro Rando then tries to fob everyone off that he did it to be nice.

Derrick how stupid do you think people are?? For a start I'm not even American!! I'm English!! Thanksgiving is an American holiday. I'd literally just done a thread on how Satanic it was,yet you say you weren't writing it to cause trouble!! It would be like me wishing you a happy Chinese new year a Satanic new year and a happy solstice all rolled into one.

Why ask me to pass it on to Bro Rando?? you know that was never gonna happen!!

I don't know how you think you can mug everyone off with your nonsense people are not as thick as you, you know!!

You're sitting there trying to make people believe you don't use Satanic tactics when you where actually caught out doing it. The person was actually deceived by your Satanic tactics and you actually admitted it, then you think people conveniently forget!!

You're sitting there trying to make out that Grubman is a reasonable spelling mistake for Grunbaum, its nothing like it Derrick!!

You're sitting there changing your doctrine left, right and centre when you get exposed!!

You're sitting there ignoring Bible questions using ridiculous excuses and rabbitting on and on about nothing in an effort to detract from the fact that you can't answer!!

You're sitting there worrying so much about your own reputation to the point that you desperately try and save it from things written on other people's boards ,but yet wont sit there and defend your own doctrine from what's written on other peoples boards then you try and tell everyone that you're more interested in Bible truths than your own reputation!!

People see through you Derrick you're just so transparent.

The problem you have Derrick is you think that other people think like you. Just because you would be fooled by lame excuses, obvious lies and twisted facts ,you think others will be. They're not Derrick, they're just not. Yes you have the mentally diseased fan club in tow but only the mentally diseased could agree with your stupidity.

That's why I laugh at you then just reject you. You're the most foolish person I've ever bumped into and I've bumped into some foolish people in my life!!

Now let me finish by explaining something to you if you have an IQ higher than two its pretty simple to understand. If you can't understand it get your wife to take you down the shops(make sure she holds your hand when you cross the road the brum brum's are dangerous) and get her to buy a blackboard and a piece of chalk and she can draw you a picture.

"We witnesses on this board are not interested in your playground antics your tantrum throwing and your constant whining on and on and on. Let me give you an example of what it's like to us. When my 3 year old nephew want's something he whines, he points and goes like this "errr errrr errr errr" I say to him "what does err, err, err, err mean?? It means nothing to me, nothing whatsoever" So you sitting there pointing fingers going "err err err errr" ,likewise doesn't mean a thing.

Every witness that comes on here, that shows you up is all of a sudden attacked called a liar a deceiver a slanderer and any number of things in between . The pattern is this . A witness comes on and either exposes your doctrine AND/OR a witness comes on and supports Bro Grunbaum and Bro Rando, you then swoop in causing trouble weeping and gnashing your teeth and then proceed to attack the new witness, then your pants end up round your ankles, then you weep and gnash your teeth even more.

We care about the Bible and Bible doctrine. We do not care what you or any of your little friends can throw at us on a personal level. We are busy on the doors spending our time saving lives. We are too busy having plenty to do in the work of the lord than to be able to sit here doing sad and pathetic things like analyzing every word like you do. We are too busy in Jehovah's service to be trawling through old letters to prove IRRELEVANT points. We have the intelligence to understand that people can read and are able to make up their own minds about things"

Your childish cult mentality is a sad and pitiful site to see.

From now on you're getting ignored I'm not gonna sit here wasting my time arguing with a small child.

Bro DW

jw.org

https://www.jw.org/en/free-bible-study/

Answer
Although DW has recently been displaying his complete childishness in a way not seen before, he has removed all doubt with his 2 posts today, that he has nothing more than slander and character attacks in his "arsenal".  What we have seen, is not a "documentation" of ANY facts of character attacks from me, nor any lies from me. None!

Yet, that is what he told us he was going to do.  In a post he wrote to me yesterday (Sunday), he made the comment that he was going to do such.  In his first writing to me on Sunday, he wrote...

"I think it's about time I did a post documenting all the lies you've given on this board for the new readers"

REPLY:  I am sure the "new readers" were quite disappointed to see that DW actually had no documentation to share with us, and no examples of lies.  I told everyone this would be the case, and DW proved me correct yet again.  I told everyone he would repeat his same worn out accusations, continue to throw his sippie cup in the floor from the high chair he is sitting in, and keep using phrases like "gnashing your teeth", "satanic attacks", etc.  I also predicted that he would NOT show us any example of a character attack or a lie.

Again, he believes (and hopes) that if he just repeats it enough times, it may magically become true.  Maybe in Watchower-land DW, but not in reality.


In his 2nd writing to me early this morning (Monday), he also stated the following....

"Your troublemaking.......has been addressed on my board today."


And his BEST example is that I wished him a Happy Thanksgiving, and they don't even have Thanksgiving in England?  LOL!  Was THAT it, DW?  Seriously?

Wow.

Actually, I don't keep up very closely with your English holidays, or when you celebrate them.  Er, excuse me...when you DON'T celebrate them.  Sorry.  I happen to use Thanksgiving as a time to be thankful for what I have, and as a time to give others well-wishes (Yes, I do it other days too).  I am sorry DW took that as trouble-making, as if his post showing the "demonic" nature of Thanksgiving was supposed to impress me.  I was fully sincere in wishing him well, as I am now.  Yes, I did sort of expect the reaction I got from him, but that is only because he is so childish and immature, and has shown that.  I have actually sent Thanksgiving wishes to others in this forum in years past, as well, even before DW ever graced this forum with his presence.  

I sent the SAME greeting to Grunbaum, and he did not take it as I was causing trouble.  He took it exacly as it was intended...a well-wish, in spite of our differences.  Basically, I have no ill-will against a person for merely disagreeing with me.  Jesus taught us to do good to those who persecute, lie about, and slander us.  I think my wishing DW a Happy Thanksgiving was much nicer than his emotionally unstable reaction to it.

He asks..."Why ask me to pass it on to Bro Rando?? you know that was never gonna happen!!"

First off, I actually sent one to Rando a few years back, as well.  As late, NOBODY can get questions to Rando, because he stays Maxed Out so that he can send questions to himself and not be bothered by real questions.  Trust me...I would have sent it myself to him, had I been able to.  I knew you and him correspond off of Allexperts.  Was that so hard to figure out?


Whether DW thinks I sincerely wish him well or not, is of no consequence to anything. If that is his best example, then he is in bad shape if he hopes to prove me a trouble-maker.

So, in summary..."Derrick Holland is a trouble-maker, because he wrote me a Happy Thanksgiving wish, after I already told everyone how demonic it was."

Oh, ok.  I'm really trying to stifle a laugh here.

And once again, you failed to be honest with the readers that my Thanksgiving wish to you was NOT sent in "Private", but was "Public".  You could have responded to it, and everyone could have read it.  You didn't.  Now, you want to claim that I am causing trouble "behind the scenes".  You lied, DW..plain and simple. You showed not one example of a "Private" trouble-making comment.  

Your readers deserve better than the lies you are telling them.  Did you really think I was going to let you get away with that one?


Now, in DW's other post, I found it telling that he now sets himself on God's throne, and has taken the role of Judge.  Yes, that's right...He has informed everyone that Myself, Ben Erdman, Richard, Ken, Robert, Pearl, and Chris, have NO hope of salvation.  Yes, that's right...NO HOPE!  

Now, how does he know that?  What right does he have to make that call?  Has Jehovah God now appointed DW as the Judge, Jury, and Executioner?  How many things have to be wrong with someone's brain, for them to think that is their call to make?

This man showed the kind of person he is, by bringing in the names of people, most of who have said NOTHING to him, have never addressed him, and are not even in this current discussion.  Now, he wants to talk about "satanic" and going "after the messenger", and then he brings up people whom he doesn't even know, and who have done NOTHING to him, and tells the world they have no hope of being saved....because HE SAYS SO.

What a cowardly act that was.  DW, I am the one your beef is with.  Why don't you man up, and give ME that mauling you have been promising?  Why don't you quit your crying and your pouting, and just tear apart my doctrine on the resurrection with the Scriptures?  Why go after people who aren't even in this discussion?

We both know why...its that "satanic attack" thing again.  You Sir, are the master of it.  You have the nerve to say that I "go after Witnesses", and in the same day, you consign all the non-Witnesses here to Gehenna?  And then you want to throw around the word "hypocrite"?

Wow...I for one, sure am glad that DW has nothing to do with my salvation, or I would be in some trouble.  Unfortunately for DW, I was saved 27 years ago, and he had nothing to do with the matter then, nor does he now.  It was already a done deal before he came along.

Then, DW proceeded to call me a "cult leader".  Now keep in mind, this is the guy who HATES "satanic character attacks".  This is the guy who believes in only attacking the MESSAGE, and not the messenger.  This is the guy who calls US "hypocrites".  

I don't think a further comment is needed on the "hypocrite" thing.  But DW, what is the name of my "cult"?  Where is it headquartered?  Does my cult have just one person who is looked to for the truth (me), or does it have a group of men who our followers must look to?  Say, like 8 men, maybe?  Do we have a Governing Body, or are we a one-man-leader cult?

Furthermore, how many cults do you know, where the "leader" tells people to test everything he says from the Bible, as I do?  How many cult leaders tell their followers that Jesus is their ONLY Mediator, and that they should not trust in a man or religion to save them?  I only ask that, because that is what I am on record as saying to people.  

Now YOUR religion, on the other hand, DOES have a GB which MUST be adhered to.  They are viewed as the only interpreters of God's Word.  They also have EXTRA-BIBLICAL literature which is supposed to reveal the hidden meaning of Scripture, which cannot be attained merely by studying the Bible itself.  And not once, I repeat, NOT ONCE, have I ever seen you, Rando, Grunbaum, or Mrs. T, tell a person to come to Christ ALONE for their salvation.  It always seems to be dependent on coming to the man-made Organization, to be saved.

What was it you were saying about "cult leaders"?


Comments such as that, only show how desperate this poor pitiful man is, to discredit someone who has shown up his unscriptural nonsense time and time again, and will continue to as the need arises.

In DW's attempt to claim I am a liar, we see once again, him typing lies of his own.  I will do what he does not do, and show what they are.


DW:  "You're sitting there trying to make out that Grubman is a reasonable spelling mistake for Grunbaum, its nothing like it Derrick!!"

REPLY:  Are you still on that?  Good grief.  Yes, I think it is perfectly reasonable that a person who doesn't have the name in front of them, might not remember the correct spelling.  In case you haven't noticed, Dee is not the only person to misspell that alias, which again, is not even his name as you well know.

I have seen it misspelled as "Grubman" (several times), "Grunbalm", and "Grunwald".  And NO, Sister T, I am NOT making fun.  Perhaps if he had adopted the alias of "Dave Smith" or something, this might not have become such a point of contention.


DW:  "You're sitting there trying to make people believe you don't use Satanic tactics when you where actually caught out doing it. The person was actually deceived by your Satanic tactics and you actually admitted it, then you think people conveniently forget!!"

REPLY:  What on earth are you talking about here?  I think we have all seen who is using the satanic tactic of character assassination, lies, and slander. I don't have to do that...I preach the truth from Scripture, and there is no one here I HAVE to attack, in order to discret them.  You guys do that yourselves every time you post a lie.


DW:  "You're sitting there changing your doctrine left, right and centre when you get exposed!!"

REPLY:  This is an outright lie.  I have changed my doctrine on nothing.  I notice that, AS USUAL, you only throw out a false statement, but you failed to show us what doctrine I changed, exactly.

Now, you have given yourself an "out" by claiming you will not answer anything else.  That's fine...at least people will see you were called out and didn't answer.  

What doctrine have I changed, DW?  This is another lie which you will offer no evidence or support for.


DW:  "You're sitting there ignoring Bible questions using ridiculous excuses and rabbitting on and on about nothing in an effort to detract from the fact that you can't answer!!"

REPLY:  Another lie.  I haven't ignored any Bible questions that have been sent to me.  Name one....


DW:  "You're sitting there worrying so much about your own reputation to the point that you desperately try and save it from things written on other people's boards ,but yet wont sit there and defend your own doctrine from what's written on other peoples boards then you try and tell everyone that you're more interested in Bible truths than your own reputation!!"

REPLY:  I'm not the slightest bit worried about my reputation, because people like you can never do anything to tarnish it, because all you have are false attacks and slander.  You never operate in reality or facts, and you never post any evidence of your false charges.  My reputation is just fine.  I still get questions on here with the same frequency that I always have, and your little rants have only made YOU look bad...not me.


DW:  "Every witness that comes on here, that shows you up is all of a sudden attacked called a liar a deceiver a slanderer and any number of things in between . The pattern is this . A witness comes on and either exposes your doctrine AND/OR a witness comes on and supports Bro Grunbaum and Bro Rando, you then swoop in causing trouble weeping and gnashing your teeth and then proceed to attack the new witness, then your pants end up round your ankles, then you weep and gnash your teeth even more."

REPLY:  DW, you really need to get help for this fascination of yours with seeing people's pants pulled down.  Secondly, the only Witnesses who ever get accused of lying or slander, are the ones who lie and slander.  

Now, I have been asked by JWs on occasion, to not lump them all in together with the ones who do these things...people such as yourself, and Rando.  I will now take the opportunity to say that most JWs are not like you, and most probably do not even LIKE the way you conduct yourself.  I know for a fact many don't.  You are simply a sorry representative for the Organization you claim to follow.  

Now, there has not yet BEEN a Witness who has shown my doctrine up from the Scripture.  And when I reply to a JW who slanders me, then yes, it is necessary to point out what the lie and slander was.  That's just plain old common sense.

I realize your thinking is warped, in that you honestly believe that since I am somewhere that you deem I should not be, then that gives you people the right to lie about me. Well, I don't hold to that view, and I am simply not going to let you get away with it.  And your life will remain miserable, until you get a good grasp on that fact.  You might think I should just shut up while you people spread your lies, but I don't think I should, and I have no intention to.


DW:  "We have the intelligence to understand that people can read and are able to make up their own minds about things"

REPLY:  EXCELLENT!  I am glad you are finally in agreement that people who come to this forum have a RIGHT to ask a question from ANY questioner they wish, and if they want to see BOTH sides, they have the perfect right to do so, and can make up their own minds, as you say.

So, I am so glad to hear that we will no longer have to put up with your crying jag about the non-Witnesses in the forum, because you have come to the understanding (FINALLY) that people should not just have to hear YOUR sanitized view of things, and only whatever facts you deem them worthy of knowing.

Glad we got that settled.


Now in conclusion, we have seen DW once again, squander an opportunity to "document" my lies and character attacks.  He has been called out and challenged to provide such examples, too many times to count.  And he has now shown beyond all doubt, that his accusations of such are simply lies, and in reality, he has nothing.

That is exactly what we saw here today...Nothing.  

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Derrick Holland

Expertise

I was raised in the religion known as Jehovah`s Witnesses for 13 years. Since becoming a born-again Christian, I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history. I can answer questions about their doctrines from the perspective of Biblical Christianity. To be clear: Jehovahs Witnesses is the religion of my upbringing, though I myself was never baptized into the religion, nor have I ever been considered as a Jehovahs Witness.

Experience

29 years of Biblical research into the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, and how they differ from the teachings of the Watchtower.

Organizations
I would advise each questioner to this forum, to carefully READ the profiles of the various volunteers. There are several such as myself, who are not practicing JWs, but will provide you with an accurate and honest answer, regarding JW teaching. If we don't know the answer, we will try to research and get it for you. There are also some excellent practicing JWs here, who also endeavor to give you a factual and honest answer, based on their point of view. I believe by getting both points of view, the questioner can weigh the evidence for themselves, and make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are also 3 here who claim to be JWs, but do NOT give honest, or well-researched answers. They will tell you only what they want you to believe, and they often hide facts about the history of their religion, as well as print untruths about other people's beliefs. This is done in an attempt to deceive the unsuspecting reader. It can be easily seen who these 3 are, simply by reading the public posts and "answers" which they write. Their posts will normally be filled with personal attacks, and if you question them about some teaching or aspect of the Watchtower that makes them uncomfortable, they will often reject your question, question your motives for asking it, tell you that you have been reading "apostate" sites, or turn the conversation into an attack on another expert. These ones are better avoided, as there is nothing to be gained by way of positive discussion, as they are not interested in intelligent conversation, or honest dialogue. If after reading the forum, you still have any questions as to who they are, just ask me, and I will be happy to tell you. And I can also provide documentation of their willful dishonesty. One thing is for certain...in a forum where people from both sides claim to be "Christians", there should never be any willful lying. Such ones only create a distraction in the forum, and provide nothing of any real value.

Education/Credentials
High School, some college. Studies of God's Word, the Bible, and how it compares to JW theology. I have found my own personal study and experiences to be far more valuable than any formal education or training. The Bible message is clear...Salvation is ONLY through and by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and no religious organization has a thing to do with it. While attendance at a Bible-preaching, Bible-believing church is a must for spiritual growth and fellowship, no church can grant salvation to its members. Nor is joining a particular group a prerequisite for being saved.

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