Jehovah`s Witness/CAN YOU POST THE LIES?
Hello sir Holland and merry Christmas.
I surf this JWs forum often. Even though I didnt really care about personal conflicts, my attention was caught by the vast amount of messages, where both side accuse each other for lying.
I havent followed this conflict, if some JWs of this site have lied can you post their lies so that I can figure out whats going on?
Besides this, what kind of lies they were? In the Bible, I met many people of God who used lies when they were dealing with enemies. So you could say that these lies were used for protection.
Finally, I just read a message of Mr Rando where he accuses you for believing in Trinity and the immortality of soul. No matter if hes right or no, I dont think that a Christian is defined by his theology and interpretations. The same applies for your beliefs. In case you tell me that Trinity is an unquestioned doctrine of the Bible for salvation, then I fully disagree with you. These doctrines are guilty of much blood spilled and are theological. I believe a Christian is defined by the acceptance of Jesus as his Savior and the belief in his upcoming Kingdom.
I hope more Christians will band together, denying to deify atheistic clergies that lust for power and gold. Maybe you and Rando will unite some day. Someone could say "What Belial has to do with Jehovah"? Demons divide us with fierce theological doctrines irrelevant with Jesus' ransom.
A final question. Some people often tell that noone comes to God unless it's God's will. They say God must allow this to happen. Im afraid they use it to scare people that they will be lost.
Just a minute. Do I have free will or not? Can I quest God and His word by my free will or Jehovah controls me as a robot? What Jesus meant saying "noone comes to the Father unless He wills?
Hello Christaras, how are you? I hope you are doing well. Thank you for the warm greeting.
Let me address this question first...You stated...."Maybe you and Rando will unite some day."
Well Christaras, I'll tell you what...Why don't you mention that to Rando, and see what he says? I can just hear the reaction to that now. Its really hard to unite with a man who is full of hate, bitterness, and doesn't value truth. As long as his disposition is to slander other people, I'm afraid not much can be accomplished by uniting with him. The Scripture gives us this warning about people like Rando. I think these Scriptures apply to this sort of person....
Prov. 22:24-25- "Make no friendship with an angry man; and with a furious man thou shalt not go:
Lest thou learn his ways, and get a snare to thy soul."
Prov. 29:22- "An angry man stirreth up strife, and a furious man aboundeth in transgression."
But you know, Christaras, if Rando would simply come clean and apologize for his lies and slander, and commit to being a man of truth, I would happily forgive him for every lie and slander he has ever told against me, and my brethren. And so would they. It would never be mentioned again. But see, Rando has no interest in doing this...In his mind, he is fighting "the enemy", and all rules go out the window. If he has to lie in a weak attempt to discredit someone, make no mistake...he will.
So, that is why I said you might want to approach him with this idea of uniting, and see if you can get him to agree with it. I doubt you get very far, and I think you know that too...Perhaps that is why you approached me with it, instead?
Okay, you asked..."A final question. Some people often tell that noone comes to God unless it's God's will. They say God must allow this to happen. Im afraid they use it to scare people that they will be lost. Just a minute. Do I have free will or not? Can I quest God and His word by my free will or Jehovah controls me as a robot? What Jesus meant saying "noone comes to the Father unless He wills?"
REPLY: Yes, you have a free will. You can choose to accept, or reject the price paid by Jesus Christ for your redemption. He offers you the chance to be born again, into the family of God. This happens by putting your faith and trust in His shed blood alone. You ultimately have the choice as to what you will do with that.
Now, I think your question is in regards to whether or not you can COME TO GOD on your own, or do you have to be drawn? The answer is "both".
Now, I have seen various JWs on here say that a person cannot come unless they are "invited" or drawn, or somehow otherwise deemed "worthy" to be part of this great Organization. Some have even gone so far as to say that you can't just become a JW on your own decision, but you must be "invited" by Jehovah God. That is such UNBIBLICAL GARBAGE, its amazing that anyone could write it with a straight face. It isn't any better than the notion of Calvinists, that God predestines some people for Heaven, and others for Hell. A doctrine like that has no basis in the Word of God, and is very dangerous.
Now, to the question...Do we have to be drawn? Yes, but here's the thing...The death of Christ on the cross, DRAWS EVERYONE. So, everyone CAN be saved, if they choose Christ. Here, let me prove it to you Scripturally.
Speaking of Christ's being "lifted up" on the cross and dying for the sins of mankind, we read...
John 12:32- "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me."
Chris, how many people does this say will be drawn to Him, by His death on the cross?
2 Peter 3:9- "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
Chris, how many people does this verse say, that God WANTS to come to repentance? How many does He want to perish?
You see, that is the problem with people like JWs who become "Organizationally" minded...You have to be "worthy" to be part of the Organization. But salvation in Christ is different...NONE of us are "worthy". Not me, not you, not a single person on earth. It is all by His grace and mercy, not because we deserve anything from Him.
So yes, it IS God's will that you be saved, and it is the death of Christ on the cross that draws us to Him. And it has nothing to do with how good you are, or how "worthy" some Organization may deem you to be. It is because God loves you, and made a way for you to be forgiven.
Now, your other question, I saved for last....
"if some JWs of this site have lied can you post their lies so that I can figure out whats going on?"
REPLY: Absolutely, I can. They are the ones who will throw out the accusation of "liar", and never actually give an example. I don't do that....If I say someone has lied, I will back it up. That's the difference between me and them.
Now, please keep in mind...There is no way I can post ALL the lies told by these people. In our answers, we are limited to 65,000 characters, and you could write all of Rando's lies down, and fill up as many volumes as are contained in a set of World Book Encyclopedias. But I will be happy to list a few, from the 3 who are doing it the most, as of late.
Those 3 are: Rando, DW, and Sister T
But first, let's ask...WHY do they do it? Wouldn't it be better to just take the Scriptures themselves, and show where the non-Witnesses are off base? Why would anyone with "the truth", EVER have to tell even one lie? Simple...its because they fear. They fear facts about the Organization coming out, which THEY would not tell a questioner. That's why they rail against the non-Witnesses being here...it disrupts their ability to present their "sanitized" version of things. Lately, they have taken to lying about me, Richard, and a lady named Dee, who herself is a Witness study, but dares to not just swallow everything they try to feed her. There is no place in their world, for a person who still thinks for themselves.
So, when you see their lies continue to post, ask yourself...Why do they need to slander this poor woman, or me, or any of the other experts? Simple...they are afraid of the truth. And why don't they simply leave the personal attacks out of it, and refute us with Scripture? Because the Scripture is not on their side, so attacking and lying is all that's left.
Now, let me list a few recent lies from each of the 3 above-named people. First, let's deal with Rando, since his are the most frequent, and the most outlandish.
RANDO: Rando falsely claimed that Dee is Luis, in a mere attempt to discredit her. She isn't Luis. But here is where he lied, and claimed she was....
I then responded, and thoroughly proved his statements were lies, in this link....
And the ever-predictable Rando responded by ignoring the question about HIS lies, and attacking me personally for embarrassing him. No retraction or apology...just a character attack. Here is the link of his "reply" to my exposing his lie....
Notice how he lashes out, because he was caught lying? He told more lies in that response, by claiming that I said "Jesus Christ was a liar". Of course, I have never said anything as stupid as that, but I DID say that Rando was a liar. I guess he can't distinguish himself from Jesus, but I certainly can.
Anyway, I then embarrassed him further for his lashing out, and pointed out that he owes Dee an apology, in the following link....
Haven't seen hide nor hair of him on the board since....
Okay, that's his lies about Dee. Now, here is just a small sampling of his many lies about me, and Christian doctrine. Now, I realize that you yourself are non-Trinitarian, but I also think you will agree that it is wrong to LIE about what the teaching is. Yet, Rando has no problem with doing so.
Here is a small list of Rando's lies about the Trinity teaching....
Lie #1- "The Trinity Doctrine comes down to this BOLD LIE: God became a man, so that man can become God."
REPLY: Rando seems to not discern between Trinitarian doctrine, and Mormon doctrine. Trinitarians do not believe that we will become God. That job is taken. We simply believe that the Scripture reveals 3 Divine Persons as being God, by nature. His above statement is a blatant lie.
Lie #2- "Trinitarians make the claim that Jesus is the Father himself in the Old Testament"
REPLY: Actually, Rando himself KNOWS this is a lie, as he has been corrected several times on this. In fact, believing that Jesus IS the Father, is not even in harmony with the word "Trinity". The word means "Tri-unity", or "unity of 3". To say that Jesus IS the Father, is much closer to the false Oneness doctrine of some Pentecostal groups, than Trinitarianism. Rando deliberately misrepresented the Trinity in this lie.
Lie #3- "The Trinitarians are so desperate, they grab any scripture with the number (three) in it and claim it explains the Trinity in explicit detail."
REPLY: Actually, it is Rando who is so desperate to DISPROVE the Trinity, that he has latched onto a verse mentioning 3 "unclean spirits" found in Rev. 16:13, which has no relevance to the Trinity whatsoever, and claimed he has "found the Trinity" in the Scriptures. Trinitarians aren't desperate...We have verses showing the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to be God.
The one who is "desperate", is the one who has to lie. People who aren't desperate, don't need to lie. No, we do not grab any verse mentioning the number 3, as proof of the Trinity.
The next 3 lies about the Trinity, I will put together, because they are basically the same. But they are ALL quotes from Rando, at different times....
Lies #4-6- "Those who believe the TRINITY, Worship the Trinity. The Trinity is made up of three Gods.
Matter of fact, Religion has not told the truth about the only True God, Jehovah. They say Jehovah alone is not the most high, he shares his position with two other gods that are equal to him.
Your right in the doctrine about the Trinity that their are three gods that form one Godhead and all being equal….The Trinity says all 3 are gods"
REPLY: No Trinitarian believes or teaches that there are 3 separate "gods" in the Trinity. This is a lie. Nor do Trinitarians believe that Jehovah shares His position with ANY other "gods", for the reason that we don't believe any other "gods" EXIST. This is in harmony with Jehovah's own words in Deut. 32:39....
"See now that I, [even] I, [am] he, and [there is] no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither [is there any] that can deliver out of my hand."
How can Jehovah "share His position with two other gods", that don't even exist?
Now, let's deal with a few lies that Rando has told about me personally....
Lie #7- "He's heavily into Christendom's Satanic Holy Days such as Easter, Halloween, and Christmas and would rather celebrate the Lie rather than the "truth". Let him drift off to Gehenna where is weeping and gnashing of teeth are."
REPLY: I celebrate the resurrection of Jesus Christ, and I do not even call the celebration "Easter" in my home. We refer to it as "Resurrection Sunday". I do honor the birth of Jesus Christ at Christmas time, and also throughout the year. We do not pagan customs in our home at Christmas.
Now, as for Halloween, I believe Halloween is thoroughly Satanic. When he claims I am "heavily into Halloween", he is a liar. He has no knowledge of me, nor my life. He simply wanted to discredit me in the forum, and he failed. My children have never been "trick-or-treating", we have never carved a Jack-o-lantern, and I have even done extensive teaching on the satanic nature of this day. It has never once been celebrated in my home. No witches, ghosts, or anything else of an occultic nature, has ever decorated my home either. So, he lied.
Lie #8- "The wicked one will be NO MORE! You spit on Jehovah's Holy Spirit, I spit on your carcass that will serve has meaty parts for the birds. Aka, luis, scott, edward, rod, raymond, cc, hyne, lora, monica, jamie, john."
REPLY: First off, I do not "spit on" the Holy Spirit. Nor do I strip Him of His Personhood, as revealed in the Scriptures. But notice how he lied and claimed that I am all of the people he named?
Now, its funny...The man lies so much, he contradicts himself. He just told everybody in the links I gave you earlier, that Luis' wife is a JW. He previously told the board (also in the link I gave), that Luis' wife is NOT a JW. But it gets even more hilarious, when you consider that in the above quote, he says that Luis is ME! But here lately, he claims that Luis is Dee. So, if we follow that to its logical end, then I would be Dee AND Luis!
See how funny it gets when he keeps lying? He forgets the other lies he told, and he winds up contradicting himself and looking foolish.
Lie #9- "Derick Holland is an Apostate…..Derrick profile is completely false. He was a baptized brother who turned against Jehovah. His mom is no JW."
REPLY: Rando can squeeze more lies into a small space, than any human being I have ever encountered. There are 5 lies, in just these 4 sentences.
A. I am not an apostate
B. My profile is completely true, and everything in it is accurate
C. I was never a baptized JW
D. I have never turned against Jehovah. I happen to love Him with all my heart, and have a personal relationship with Him through Jesus Christ
E. My mom is a JW
And here is a quote from him, that merely illustrates his mental instability....
"The manner in how I am going to be put to death is not revealed to me. It is possible that I may be put to death without being sealed as a member of the 144,000. Some have been throughly tested and died in a warm bed. I won't have the luxury of dying in a warm bed, I will be humiliated for all to see, a death similar to Christ. Then in the twinkling of an eye I will be changed. (1 Cor 15:52)"
Okay, not much needs to be said about that one.
Actually Christaras, YOUR name was mentioned just the other day. Rando posted a slander of me, trying to prove my "demonic disposition", and he used one of my old replies to you, in his attempt to prove it. He failed to mention that you yourself had a complete change of heart, because of HIS hatefulness and HIS rudeness towards you. So I simply pointed out to the readers, that you had written with an apology, and showed much more character in doing so, than he has ever shown. Not sure if you saw that post or not, but here it is....
But I think I have sufficiently answered your question about Rando lying.
Now, I will give you a few brief ones from DW and Sister T, also.
Lies from DW:
1. DW claims that he has a "list" of either 5, or 6 lies that I have told. He refuses to post his list so that I can address each one of them, because he knows full well that he is TWISTING my comments to MAKE them into lies, when they are not. So, he just keeps telling the readers that he has this "list", but we never actually see it. This is a lie.
A few quotes from him...."
"Although to be honest Bro Rando say's Dee's, Luis and he knows him well so we know she's not who she say's she is."
REPLY: Here, he repeats Rando's lie about Dee being Luis. He then sets up a straw man argument, while claiming to "be honest". LOL. He acts as if Bro. Rando "saying" something, somehow makes it true, then proceeds to use Rando's lie as his springboard for saying that "Rando knows Luis well" (he doesn't know Luis at all), and then saying "So, we know she's not who she says she is".
Excuse me? We know that Dee is not who she says she is? Really? Now, how do we know that? Simple...Because of what Rando said.
But here's the problem...What Rando said was a lie, so DW builds his entire lie and slander of Dee, on a straw man argument which was false to begin with. What mentality!
In a reply to me today, DW wrote the following false statement about me....
"You also have a reputation of telling lies....Why would anyone take the word of a proven liar like yourself??"
The problem here, is that I do not have reputation of telling lies. Not in my personal life, not even with teh many JWs who actually KNOW me, and not on this board. So again, he uses another straw man argument, implying that since I have been a proven liar, nobody should take me word. Only problem is....I don't lie.
Just another weak character attack on his part.
He also says regarding the JW study named Dee...."That's actually a second reason how I know this Dee's an apostate.Because when she was a witness she couldn't work things out for herself which is why she left and why she can't work things out for herself now!!"
When Dee wrote to him herself, and told him that she was not an apostate, and proved that she is current in her JW studies, he basically still implied she was lying, but indicated that even if she was telling the truth, it was STILL her fault anyway for making him think that she was apostate. Check the link out for yourself....
One more from DW, written TO Sister T:
DW: "Did you see Derrick writing to himself again??
Your reasonably new on the board but let me tell you what happens with Derrick every time he suffers an embarrassing defeat.
1)He writes to himself pretending to be someone else.
2)He goes on a vacation."
REPLY: This is simply one lie right after another. First, I didn't write the question to myself that he claimed I did.
Secondly, I have never had a defeat on this board, because I AM honest and don't get caught lying like they do.
Thirdly, I have NEVER once in 12 years, written to myself while pretending to be someone else. That is what Rando does...I think its rather childish, myself. If I need to post something myself, I always make it clear that is me posting my own comments. Never have I once claimed it was from someone else, or tried to imply it in any way.
Fourth, when I go "on vacation", it is because I am "on vacation". These clowns actually had the nerve to claim I went "on vacation" on JULY 4TH of all weeks, which is a time in our country where MILLIONS of Americans go on vacation, because I needed to get away from the heat on the board...LOL. They fail to mention that I contacted them as soon as I was back, and told them we could talk about any subject they wanted to discuss with me while I was gone. They shut up about that one, but still make the same claim whenever I place myself "on vacation". Never mind that Rando STAYS "Maxed Out"....If I take a week-end or so every couple of months, it bugs them to no end...LOL!
Actually, I have placed myself "on vacation" from the board for 3 reasons:
1. I am actually "on vacation"
2. A couple of times had to deal with family emergencies/issues
3. A death or sickness
Never have I placed myself on "vacation", because of them. They simply think too highly of themselves, and because they know they are losing, they use anything they can to make it look like they have frightened me or something. Funny, if I was scared of them, I would've just left a long time ago, or I would ignore them in the hopes on not stirring up their wrath.
They are actually quite hilarious with these accusations of theirs, but alas, that still constitutes another lie from DW...because it wasn't true.
Now, for time's sake, I will give you a few outright false statements from Sister T herself....
Lie #1- "It's so funny how Derrick and his cohorts come on a site that is for questions to JW's and try to run things,not happening, and make insults and deceive! Yes Deceive with a capital D! And again, he would not be on this site if he was not here to try to deceive and mislead people, period!"
REPLY: This is not a site for questions TO JWs...Its a site for questions ABOUT JWs.
Nor are we trying to "run things", as we are not the ones screaming and crying about others who are here on the board. It is the JWs who are trying to "run things", because they are the ones trying to give orders...telling Dee who she can write to, telling non-Witnesses to leave the forum, etc.
Nor are we making insults, or deceiving anyone. And then falsely claiming to know our motives for being on this site. We aren't here to deceive...We are here to present the Gospel, and try to KEEP people from being deceived, and to see to it that questioners have an OPTION to actually get a factual and complete answer to their question.
Lie #2- "You mentioned that the apostates and opposers on here are nicer then the Witnesses. To me that's a horrible thing to say as they hate us, and go against Jehovah and his anointed one!!"
REPLY: The non-Witnesses in this forum do not hate Jehovah's Witnesses. I do not personally hate Sister T, Rando, nor DW. I pity them, and I pray for them. You read the replies here daily, Christaras, and tell me who hates who.
Nor do we "go against Jehovah", or "His anointed One". This is ridiculous. We happen to love Jehovah, His anointed One, and His Word, the Bible.
Just a weak lie to try and discredit, and strike fear in this Dee's heart, so that she would stay away from writing to us.
Lie #3- " But the minute a Witness stands up for themselves and Jehovah, they are attacked."
REPLY: Nobody here attacks a Witness for standing up for themselves. Any person has the right to do that. What we address, is their lies and their attempt to slander us. And in the process, they are made to look foolish. But that is their own fault.
Lie #4- "Retaliating in anger and refuting lies is two different things. These apostates/opposers are lying on Jehovah and Jesus!"
REPLY: You read the daily postings here, and you tell me who is retaliating in anger, and who is calmly addressing the lies and slander against themselves. And by the way, we have told NO lies about Jehovah or Jesus. Notice T didn't actually show us any...She just false accused us of doing it.
Now, to save time and my fingers falling off from typing, I will give you a link where I personally had to address Sister T about some of her false statements, and her misuse of quotes. She basically accused a questioner on this board of saying things he never said, and when I attempted to politely ask her to set it right, she simply rejected the question.
Here is the link where you, or the readers can see for themselves, and reach their own conclusions....
Okay, I posted these samples of the falsehoods that we see from these people on a regular basis, because you asked for them. This is just a very small listing, of the lies and character attacks that come from these people on a weekly, and almost daily, basis. These are also the very same 3 who do the most complaining ABOUT character attacks. That isn't surprising. The peaceable JWs here have no need to scream and gnash their teeth, because they aren't attacking others, and therefore, are not being exposed as liars. The ones who are screaming about it the loudest, are the very ones doing it.
No coincidence there.
Take care, Christaras. I am praying that you will come to realize that salvation is not found in any man-made Organization, but is found only in the shed blood of Jesus Christ. I am happy for you in the progress that you have made thus far, in realizing that the Watchtower really doesn't control a person's salvation.