QUESTION: Hello again, I think its another subject and doesnt fit in 10toes/10 kings. So you can ignore the other message.
You provided a verse that talks about unity. Can you explain me why this unity should come not only through faith in Jesus Christ, but also in cosmological/anthropological/theological aspects?
For example I believe the Earth does not move(cosmological), I believe man is an immaterial self with a fleshy body(anthropological), God is no restricted inside the space he created, but has an infinite body(theological).
Lets say you disagree in most or all of them. Why we cant have unity through faith in Jesus Christ and his kingdom?
Have a good day
ANSWER: Hi again
Thanks for writing
You see the difficulty is you're not seeing the bible as God's book. The Bible tells us to be united and then it tells us how to be united .We're united about what the bible teaches, otherwise the scriptures about unity would be in a different book other than the bible.
Like for example I love football(the Americans call it soccer but it's actually football there's no such thing as soccer!!hahaha).I support West Ham United one of my brothers in the truth and a very good mate supports Newcastle United. The Bible doesn't give any direction saying you have to be in unity on the football teams you support just on the pages of the Bible. Support who you like (as long as it's not Millwall or Tottenham!! hahahaha) So the point is the bible tells you what do and then shows you. NOTHING is left to guess work!!
We're united on what the bible tells us to teach because that's what the bible tells us
Follow up if you need
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: A long message, LOL.
Sorry, but I didnt receive your opinion, the answer was too indefinite.
As I said, I believe that from the beginning to the end, the message is the Savior and the restoration of creation through His kingdom. As for unity, it comes from the faith in this message.
Now your turn. Since you really believe Im wrong and I dont see the Bible as God's book(its allright if you believe so), what does the Bible tells us to teach and what makes us united?
You say "the Bible tells us to be united". I agree. Then you say, "it tells us HOW to be united". I agree again. Finally you say "we're united about WHAT the bible teaches". This is what I want to learn. WHAT does it teaches? Is it what I believe or something more complex? Is Bible's message the establishment or rejection of doctrines and interpretations? Or perhaps something more simple as the good news of Jesus' resurrection and Jesus' kingdom?
I forgot to mention that I dont criticize a particular religious clergy of a religious organization for its' salvation rules. No, no. Im talking in general for rules that caused division from the early years of Christianity. Im against Trinity Doctrine in the sense that I would not force a theological opinion as doctrine, by any means of violence or by the sword! This would be too evil. I would let people have their personal view on the essence of God, as long as they accepted Jehovah god and his son Jesus as their savior.People who attack JWs for their beliefs are very wrong in the same sense that JWs are, when they hate others for their beliefs. Ok, this is my false opinion lol, but prove to me Im wrong and I will change it.
If you answer that "Trinity doctine" is a demonic teaching and belief that denies Jesus as the savior, I have to say 2 things. I both agree and disagree.
First, if the ancient presbyters called it a doctrine for salvation I agree with you. 3 in 1, 1 in 3, 1 not 3, 3 in a metaphorical sence... COME ON NOW!! Lol, are we going to play with numbers? Only demons would cause the establishment of such theological doctrines that are considered necessary for salvation!
Second, as a non-doctrine but a simple theological belief I have no problem with it, as long as the one who believes it does not deny Jesus as the Messiah. Come on now, do you SINCERELY believe that trinitarians reject Jesus as their Messiah? If that's true, why are they so keen about talking for Jesus' Christ ransom and the importance of faith to Him? Maybe they have a wrong theological view but are they demons that reject Jesus? Dont think so, I swear. In the worst of situation they are fooled.
So to sum up, I reject trinity as a doctrine for salvation, but I have no problem if others believe this(as long as theyre not rejecting Jesus).
Too much doctrines for salvation,hehehehehehehehehehe
P.S If I was to establish a new christian group, I would simply label it 'Christians', of course it would not be separated but it would consider all christians as brothers even these who believe in many doctrines for salvation.
OK maybe I can answer all your questions by tackling this point here
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<This is what I want to learn. WHAT does it teaches? Is it what I believe or something more complex? Is Bible's message the establishment or rejection of doctrines and interpretations? Or perhaps something more simple as the good news of Jesus' resurrection and Jesus' kingdom?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
OK so let me tell you then
The Bible is an immense book there is no book like it. In fact immense doesn't even cover the description of the sort of book it is!!!
There's around 31,200 verses in the Bible all written by God that's what we need to understand and agree on these 31,200 verses. The Bible is linked right from Genesis through to revelation.It interprets itself
Here's the very simplest example of that
Gen 3 "Now the serpent proved to be the most cautious of all the wild beasts of the field that Jehovah God had made"
But the Bible doesn't tell us who the serpent is until here
9 "So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan"
Now this is your basis for Bible interpretation the Bible interprets the Bible.
The Bible is both simple and complex at the same time. We can't ignore the simple and concentrate purely on the complex. But like anything we need to start somewhere we can't run before we can walk.
Here's a scripture that may help you here.
Do give ear, O my people, to my law;
Incline YOUR ear to the sayings of my mouth.
2 In a proverbial saying I will open my mouth;
I will cause riddles of long ago to bubble forth"
This is a command from Jehovah
"listen to my law, listen to my word , my words are riddles, I will speak riddles and you need to understand them, I will allow that to happen"
So what do you think this verse is telling us?? That we can just believe what we want?? Doctrines not important?? That God's law is simple?? That God's word is to be read like a simple book?? You're a clever geezer you know the answer to this question.
BUT there's a big BUT to all this you have to start somewhere you have to start with simple scriptures and build from there.
Years ago Jesus appointed an organization, it's clear in verses like this:
45 "Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?"
These people meet together somewhere.
25 "not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together"
To be taught somewhere.
4 "And it must occur in the final part of the days [that] the mountain of the house of Jehovah(YHWH) will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, and it will certainly be lifted up above the hills; and to it peoples must stream. 2 And many nations will certainly go and say: “Come, YOU people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah(YHWH) and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, and we will walk in his paths"
The reason they where appointed is because they where willing to be directed by spirit. This means not putting their own opinion on scripture but rather finding out what God was saying. All Jehovah's witnesses are spirit directed. I'm spirit directed. Bro Grunbaums spirit directed. T is , Brenda is , we all are.
Because all it means is letting the Bible direct your life. Jehovah's witnesses are a spirit directed organization. Because we all let the Bible direct our lives. We all have different jobs but we're all spirit directed.
<<<<<<<<<,Since you really believe Im wrong and I dont see the Bible as God's book>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Now this is what is the root of your problem you don't know WHY we say the Bible is God's word.
You're confusing yourself with philosophy and intellectual argument. We're talking about something as vital as your salvation here. There's no need to over complicate that, it's actually very,very simple.
25 "I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to babes"
So my suggestion is IF you're really interested in your salvation, put to TEST all the HOLY books. We've all had to do that!!
Hope I've answered this for you.
Follow up with your thoughts