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Jehovah`s Witness/So whats the BIG secret? Who is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

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Question
Hello Mr. Holland.

First let me say, it was me that wrote you the question. So the JWs that slandered you need to apologize. They claim you write questions to yourself, yet they know now that they are wrong, because I have written them privately and publically.

So......whats the big secret? Over the past month I have asked this question of 4 different "JW experts" on this board. It initially started with Mr. Grunbaum.

Mr. Grunbaum's response on 10-10-12,

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Jehovah-s-Witness-1617/2012/10/faithful-discreet-slav

So as of 10-10-12, the Faithful and Discreet Slave was comprised of ALL "anointed" JWs.

Less than one month later............. he rejected my question. He said that he had already answered this question for me once before. But now he refuses to comment to anyone about the F@DS.

Why will he no longer comment on the F&DS, could it be that his initial answer had an expiration date?

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Bro DW:He rejected my question from day one.

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Bro K.J.P. Nacilla: He rejected the question telling me that quote:

"Sorry ,but I have been extremely busy ,I will respond in due time by revising this response


For now, I can only give you this Link from DW:
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Jehovah-s-Witness-1617/2012/11/faithful-discreet-slav


Is this not why the experts have the "on vacation" alternative? Or is he waiting for the GB to "revise" his response?

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Sister T: Well, after explaining to her that I was the one that asked you the question, and that Rando, Grunbaum, and herself were slandering you by saying you wrote yourself the question, she labeled me either an "apostate or opposer", and rejected my response. I told her that I love her and care for her salvation, but she can not seem to shake this deep seeded hate.

I am not an "apostate", never been to a single church service in a Kingdom Hall. And just because I "oppose" men's falsehoods, does not mean I "oppose" Jesus or the bible. I will and do speak with anyone about Jesus, HE is my saviour and Lord.


She also took the question labeled private, and made it public. So if the readers want their questions kept private, choose a more suitable "expert".

Now, she rejects my questions.



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I would enjoy your take on why the refusal to answer on the F&DS.


I wouldnt be expecting their apology anytime soon.

Much love,
   Kevin

Answer
Hello, Kevin.  I hope you are doing well.

Wow, a couple of different issues here.  So, you are telling me that you have been rejected by 4 different experts in this forum, regarding the question on the identity of the "faithful and discreet slave"? I find that intriguing, to say the least.  Here is why....

First, they whine and complain about the non-JWs here answering questions, yet they refuse to answer questions about their most fundamental doctrine?  I quote again from Sister T...

" And if real JW's were not on here, then all they would get is the twists of truths and out right lies, from the apostates and opposers.  So we are here."


Well, apparently if you write to them about some things, you get NO answer at all.  Aside from the fact that her statement was false about the non-JWs lying, and despite the fact that she was asked and given a perfect opportunity to show those lies that she was talking about, I noticed that in all the posts this morning responding to my comments, nobody STILl gave an example.  They reacted EXACTLY as I told you they would, didn't they.  It was very predictable.

So, let's look at this...The doctrine of the Faithful and Discreet Slave is FOUNDATIONAL to all Watchtower teaching.  In other words, it isn't exactly just a minor point of doctrine.  It is VERY important.  I thought that properly identifying the "slave" was necessary for one's salvation, yet here you ask them for the slave's identity, and they reject your question?  

And then after several experts who are SUPPOSED to be able to answer questions about their own doctrine, especially one of this importance, continually reject you, they then actually have the audacity to talk about who "should be here", who "shouldn't be here", and call everyone else "liars"?  

Well, why is it that they won't answer?  I could be wrong, but I seem to remember Mr. Rando posting something about "new light" on the Faithful and Discreet Slave several weeks, maybe 2 months back.  Hmm, can't find it now.  Wonder why?  I didn't know there was a way to remove a post, but I am quite certain there was something from him about this.  Rando, would you mind commenting on this all-important issue?  Is there "new light" coming on the Slave's identity?

Now, like you Kevin, I have heard some things about an adjustment in the teaching.  If what I have heard is true, then this is a MAJOR spoof on the WT doctrine of the Faithful and Discreet Slave.  Now, I will not state anything for a fact at this time, but this bears watching.  It is possible that you are being rejected because they have gotten wind that a change is coming, but nothing official in print yet.  I simply don't know, but will keep up to date on this issue.

But either way, it is inexcusable that you are being rejected for a legitimate question, on an important issue such as this.  Perhaps they need to worry about their own failure to give competent answers to legitimate questions, rather than worry about everyone else on the board.

So, could some of the more qualified JWs comment on this issue?  Rando, would you mind posting a reply here, and identifying the Faithful and Discreet Slave for us?  I would send you the question myself, but you are always "Maxed Out".  Since you are always "Maxed Out", is it okay if I call you Max?


Now, on to the other issues.  Yes, I saw the replies from Rando and DW.  Well, my comments sure stirred up a hornet's nest, didn't it?  But actually Kevin, both DW and Rando did as I predicted.  They are both like broken records, and all they can do is keep repeating the same laughable nonsense over and over.  Assuring each other that they have crushed everyone, when they have said absolutely nothing.  Again, these people are showing all the signs of cult brainwashing.  They absolutely cannot fathom that people actually care for them spiritually.  They have been taught for so long, and had it drilled into their heads for so long, that non-Witnesses hate them, that they cannot even grasp any other concept.

I am sorry that she rejected your follow-up, where you showed concern for her soul.  But she has already gone on record saying that the non-Witnesses HATE them, so she would either have to acknowledge that her statement was false and in error, or just reject it.  She chose the latter.  Yesterday morning, I did as I challenged other Christians to do...I called each of their names out in prayer.  It will take the work of the Holy Spirit to penetrate through the brainwashing, the cult mentality, and all the falsehoods, and draw them to Jesus Christ.
 

You wrote...."First let me say, it was me that wrote you the question. So the JWs that slandered you need to apologize."


REPLY:  Well, let's not hold our breath too long for that one.  Yes, it would be the right and Christian thing to do, but we both know it isn't going to happen.  But thank you for clarifying this, and at least DW now KNOWS that he told a falsehood, regardless of what he wishes to do about it.

If you take slander out of their arsenal, they have nothing left.  So don't expect that to change anytime soon.

DW proceeded to show his predictable nature, and did exactly what I have pointed out time and again that he would do....Contine his slander, lie, then claim he has crushed everyone.

Oh, and DW (I know you are reading), let me say this to you....I saw your childish tantrum in the forum, and I would like to say this to you.  As you now know, I did NOT write the question to myself.  So, you told a falsehood.  Secondly, WHAT IF I DID?  Is that a problem?  Rando does it all the time.  There HAVE been times that I have written to myself, to post some thoughts I had on a topic.  Is that a problem?  Now, you lied when you said that I sent THIS particular question to myself, because I did not.  But I have done others in the past, and will again, as I see fit.

But here is the BIG difference between my doing it, and Rando doing it....When I write myself, I always make it clear that is what I am doing.  I do not do as Rando does, and pretend to be conversing with someone else.  I do not make up names, as if someone else is actually writing to me.  Nor, do I do something else Rando does....Brag on MYSELF!  Now, you want to talk about laughable, can you imagine someone being so pompous, that they would write THEMSELVES a question pretending to be someone else, and then bragging on THEMSELVES about what an awesome Bible teacher they are?  And telling THEMSELVES how much "you have helped me", and "you are just so smart and wonderful", etc.  

I don't do that, Mr. DW.  Rando does.  Nor have I ever voted for MYSELF as "Volunteer of the Month", as Rando has.  Now, if you want to press that issue, we certainly can.

When I post a question from myself, you will know it, because I am not trying to hide it so that I can tell myself how great and wonderful I am.  I would feel sort of stupid doing that.

Now DW, as I said, I pray for you and care about you as a man for whom Christ died.  But your "He puts himself on vacation" remark was about as immature and childish as anything I have seen lately, and it only shows weakness on your part, not mine.  When I put myself "on vacation", its because I am on vacation.  I do not have to clear my vacation plans with you.  I always come BACK from vacation, and am more than willing to discuss any topic that you can muster the courage to discuss. And I'm not "on vacation" now, by the way, and will not be until December 21st (going to Gatlinburg.  Have you ever been to Gatlinburg, DW?)  

You have a full 2 weeks to "maul" away.

Now, I believe it was YOU who told the board that YOU were going to be "on vacation" for a couple weeks, and you were going to take the time to thoroughly "maul" me on the subject of my choosing.  I replied, and chose the topic we have been discussing...the resurrection of Christ.  Now, I have not seen or felt any "mauling" from you as of yet.  Actually, I haven't even felt a breeze from your slaps.  I am beginning to think that we aren't going to see anything from you at all.  I think you are all talk, and basically, a hot air balloon.  Now, I am not on vacation now, nor will I be for 2 weeks.  So, if there is something you are itching to discuss with me, you know how to find me.  You can contact me, we can discuss and agree on a format for the discussion, and then you can "maul" to your heart's content.  

Just let me know...


I'm sorry, Kevin.  Back to your comments now.  


You wrote...."Sister T: Well, after explaining to her that I was the one that asked you the question, and that Rando, Grunbaum, and herself were slandering you by saying you wrote yourself the question, she labeled me either an "apostate or opposer", and rejected my response. I told her that I love her and care for her salvation, but she can not seem to shake this deep seeded hate."


REPLY:  Kevin, this is precisely what I said in my previous post, that is so typical of these people.  It is much easier for them to call you names and label you, than to actually admit they made a blunder, and allow themselves to be humbly corrected from the Scriptures.  They are wrong, plain and simple.  The way they talk to people is wrong.  Any non-biased reader knows that.  But see, they CAN'T grasp that it is wrong, because they truly believe they are doing it in defense of the Society.

Did you actually think Sister T was going to say..."Kevin, thank you for writing and clearing this up.  DW and I will be happy to acknowledge our error, and in the future, we will try to act more like representatives of the God we claim to serve"?

No, her reaction was exactly as I have pointed out on many occasions.  They can state a falsehood, and absolutely refuse to correct it.  They have no problem at all letting it stand.  You have to understand their mind-set.

And you hit the nail on the head, when you called it "deep-seeded hate".  That is exactly what it is.  I appreciate your showing this woman the love of Christ, and expressing that love to her.  I pray she comes to Him one day.  God only knows the so-called Christians who are rude to her at the door, just like she and her friends are in this forum.  No excuse for it...from either side.  You did a good thing by expressing concern for her as a person, because that is what she is...a human being who needs Jesus Christ.  She will never be able say that she was never shown love by a follower of Christ.  What she does with it, is not in our control...that is the work of the Holy Spirit.  But you did the right thing, and I am sorry she replied in such a manner by calling you names.  

I also do not understand why she made your answer "public", not realizing that only makes her and DW look bad, and not you?  Strange move, there.  I have always thought it was wrong to take a question written in "Private", and make it "Public", unless it was threatening or harassing in nature.  I have only had to do that once, with a harassing question.  If a questioner makes something "Private", it is very immature and wrong to change it against the questioner's wishes.  But you know what?  Her doing that did not make you look bad, it made her look bad.


You wrote...."I am not an "apostate", never been to a single church service in a Kingdom Hall. And just because I "oppose" men's falsehoods, does not mean I "oppose" Jesus or the bible. I will and do speak with anyone about Jesus, HE is my saviour and Lord."


REPLY:  Yes, but I think we have all seen that these people are not interested in facts.  I have been labeled "apostate" too many times to count, and these people know full well that I do not fit the definition of "apostate", as defined by their OWN religion.  Rando is the one who normally makes this charge, and then he proceeded to shoot his own self in the foot by posting my location in the forum.  That made it easy.  I then challenged him that, since he knew my location, that made it easy for him to contact the local KH here and verify whether or not I was ever a JW.  I even gave him the name of the elder to contact.  Needless to say, he shut up about that soon afterward.  He didn't want to have to retract his lie, and he didn't want to press the issue either.  

But what I'm saying is, they don't care about the facts.  There is a higher cause in their mind...silence all who would expose their false doctrine, by ANY means necessary.  Whether it be lies, slander, or whatever else they may decide to do.

Case in point, if I may quote something Sister T said in her post this morning.  I think it illustrates the fallacy of logic quite clearly.  She said...

"I'll tell Derrick what, if he's so worried about us being nicer and wants to go crying and balling up in a corner about how we are being mean, then get off this board so we don't have to smash the apostates/opposers all the time"

REPLY:  No ma'am, that isn't how it works.  Just because you have hate for me, and don't think I should be here, does not give you the right to lie and slander.  You should know that, from reading the Scriptures.  There are a lot of people who do things I do not like...But I know enough of the Bible to know that I have no right to slander them, or spread falsehoods about them.  Now, I have no problem with you "smashing", or whatever you want to call it.  But do it with truth, and with Scripture.  The fact you don't, and instead resort to lies and defaming comments, only proves you CAN'T do it with Scripture.  Quite honestly, that says more about you, than it does about me.  

Furthermore, she wrote..."Yes, I agree with all that you say. It's so funny how Derrick and his cohorts come on a site that is for questions to JW's and try to run things,not happening, and make insults and deceive!  Yes Deceive with a capital D! And again, he would not be on this site if he was not here to try to deceive and mislead people, period!"


REPLY:  Again, we see her proving the point I already made.  All they can ever do is CLAIM this is happening, but again, I notice that she provided not one example of this ever happening.  

And there is a very good reason she didn't....

  

She wrote..."I knew it was just a matter of time before he came after me, his tactics is nothing new! I'm extreme and fanatic because I won't allow him and his cohorts to trick me.  I'm extreme because I use scriptures and reasonings to back up what I say from the Bible. I recall how Derrick tried to say similar things like that to you Bro. Rando...he has nothing left...nothing!  That's all he can do in light of the fact that he can't prove his Trinity and false beliefs scriptually."


REPLY:  Again, this reply was predicted.  Didn't come after you, Sister T.  I have known you were the same person who wrote all those ridiculous comments about me, ever since DW revealed to the world who you were.  I didn't come after you then, and would not have addressed you this time, except that you lied to the public and defamed the character about every non-JW on this forum.  And if the questioner hadn't written me, I probably still wouldn't have, although I admit I was considering it.

So, your falsehoods needed to be addressed.  I'm sorry it had to be done, but it did.  In the future, maybe just be truthful, and nothing will need to be said.  I have no intention of countering your answers to questioners, provided you don't stoop to slander and untruth, like you did in the post I addressed.  You brought that on yourself.  Just because you don't like what we stand for, does not mean we are going to sit back and let you defame us, and presume to judge our hearts.
 

She wrote...."There is a critics page Derrick, go over there and be who you are! You can say whatever you want over there, but over here, you're not going to get away with your deception and Satanic tactics!  Exposed is what you are!  EXPOSED!!"


REPLY:  Well, I am in this forum, and that is where I intend to stay until I feel it is time to leave.  Now, I agree with you about "getting away with deception".  Nobody should get away with deception and lies....not YOU either.  That is why you were addressed.

And I still notice that you simply throw out the accusation, but didn't give an example.  And again, this is because you have none, and "capitalizing" it doesn't make it true, either.  Neither does "yelling".  A lie spoken loudly, or in frustration, does not magically become true.


She wrote...."And then they say no one has ever made fun of Bro Grunbaum's name, that's not true, and I am not going to go hunting for it either, if he wants to hold his breath and stomp his feet until he turns blue go ahead. But I know they have and just because he said they haven't means nothing!"


REPLY:  Again, this is her attempt to get out from under being shown up for making a false statement.  Humility would cause her to just acknowledge that she shouldn't have said it, but for some reason, JWs cannot bring themselves to do this.  

Uh no, Mrs. T, I do not believe that you have one example of anyone making fun of Grunbaum's name.  I happen to know that is not his name, but an alias.  That's neither here nor there.  Nobody has made fun of it.  I know for a fact I haven't, nor have any of the other experts in the forum.  Now if a questioner has done so, I am not aware of that.  But you were aiming that at the experts here, and you were wrong.

You can try and wiggle out of it by saying "Im not going to hunt it" (there's nothing to hunt), and "I know they have" (actually, no you don't, because we haven't), and "just because they say they haven't means nothing" (yes, it does.  You made the accusation, and I have denied it.  That puts the burden of proof on YOU.)

Your reaction is really sad, Sister T.  You are supposed to be a representative of Jehovah God.  And that means you are supposed to TELL THE TRUTH.  If you make an error, you are supposed to correct it.  You seem unwilling to do so.  And you ask Dee if SHE is humble?  

Why don't you just be honest about it?  You aren't going to correct your mistake, because it is US that you are making it against, and you have such a hatred for the non-witnesses here, that you somehow believe Jehovah will give you a free pass even if you did tell a little fib.

Again, Sister T, I am praying for you.  I hold no ill-will against you.  I truly hope you will start being more truthful, so I do not have to spend my evenings setting falsehoods straight that you have told.  I really do have other things I would rather be doing, but I cannot let your slanderous statements just go by.

I hope you understand, and I'm praying for you.


Now Kevin, I thank you for writing and setting this matter straight about where the question came from.  I have as much right to post something from myself as Rando does, but that is a moot point, because I didn't write that question to myself anyway.

Take care, and God bless, my brother.  

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Derrick Holland

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I was raised in the religion known as Jehovah`s Witnesses for 13 years. Since becoming a born-again Christian, I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history. I can answer questions about their doctrines from the perspective of Biblical Christianity. To be clear: Jehovahs Witnesses is the religion of my upbringing, though I myself was never baptized into the religion, nor have I ever been considered as a Jehovahs Witness.

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29 years of Biblical research into the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, and how they differ from the teachings of the Watchtower.

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I would advise each questioner to this forum, to carefully READ the profiles of the various volunteers. There are several such as myself, who are not practicing JWs, but will provide you with an accurate and honest answer, regarding JW teaching. If we don't know the answer, we will try to research and get it for you. There are also some excellent practicing JWs here, who also endeavor to give you a factual and honest answer, based on their point of view. I believe by getting both points of view, the questioner can weigh the evidence for themselves, and make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are also 3 here who claim to be JWs, but do NOT give honest, or well-researched answers. They will tell you only what they want you to believe, and they often hide facts about the history of their religion, as well as print untruths about other people's beliefs. This is done in an attempt to deceive the unsuspecting reader. It can be easily seen who these 3 are, simply by reading the public posts and "answers" which they write. Their posts will normally be filled with personal attacks, and if you question them about some teaching or aspect of the Watchtower that makes them uncomfortable, they will often reject your question, question your motives for asking it, tell you that you have been reading "apostate" sites, or turn the conversation into an attack on another expert. These ones are better avoided, as there is nothing to be gained by way of positive discussion, as they are not interested in intelligent conversation, or honest dialogue. If after reading the forum, you still have any questions as to who they are, just ask me, and I will be happy to tell you. And I can also provide documentation of their willful dishonesty. One thing is for certain...in a forum where people from both sides claim to be "Christians", there should never be any willful lying. Such ones only create a distraction in the forum, and provide nothing of any real value.

Education/Credentials
High School, some college. Studies of God's Word, the Bible, and how it compares to JW theology. I have found my own personal study and experiences to be far more valuable than any formal education or training. The Bible message is clear...Salvation is ONLY through and by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and no religious organization has a thing to do with it. While attendance at a Bible-preaching, Bible-believing church is a must for spiritual growth and fellowship, no church can grant salvation to its members. Nor is joining a particular group a prerequisite for being saved.

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