Jehovah`s Witness/Jehovah as the Father?
Hi Derrick. So when my co-worker started preaching about Jehovah being the name of God I denied it, mostly from of his approach, and from my own ignorance. After doing some bible study I came to the conclusion that Jehovah is the name of God. I just didn't find any scriptures that point out that the name Jehovah belonging solely to the father. When I asked my JW co-worker if he could show me in the KJV that Jehovah is the Father he jumped right on that. I reminded him that the name Jehovah only appears 4 times and I didn't want any washed down interpretations.I wanted something similar to Jesus being called God in John 1:1 and Isaiah 9:6.He came back with 8 verses. I said how cna there be 8 when only 4 verses mention Jehovah, he said just read them. After two verses I said enough. You said you could show without a doubt that Jehovah is the Father.Is it my understanding that Jesus is also referred to as Jehovah or is it only used for the Father?
He also likes to bash me over the head with Col. 1:15 that Jesus was the firstborn of creation. Is there any evidence that Jesus was the first of all creation? I don't believe there is. Is my understanding of Gen. 1:1 correct that before the heavens and earth were created there was nothing? When exactly was Jesus created then according to the JWs? My co- worker has no answer for this. Was it before the beginning of creation or after? It surely has to be before Gen.1:27. Seems like a pretty significant event that took place. You'd think there would be some mention of that before Col.1:15.
Thanks Again,looking forward to hearing what you have to say. Kevin
Hello Kevin, thank you for your understanding for the delay. Had the unexpected issue of my dad going to the hospital on Friday, and was out of town all day yesterday.
As far as the name "Jehovah", there are some who say that this is an incorrect rendering of the Hebrew name for God, which is 4 consonants...YHWH. The truth is, nobody today knows exactly how the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) was pronounced for sure, and if it were such an issue for salvation, the pronunciation would have been preserved for us. It was not.
I am not one who objects to the name "Jehovah", as used to pronounce the name of God. I believe it is perfectly Scriptural and fine to refer to God as "Jehovah", but it is not perfectly fine to say that we know for sure this is the correct rendering of the Hebrew name "YHWH", nor is it fine to deny someone else salvation, based upon their failure to use name that may very well not have been the exact pronunciation.
That being said, we too in Christian churches, teach that God's name is Jehovah, as we pronounce it in English. I do not have a problem or issue with that. You are also correct that the Scripture does NOT limit the name "Jehovah" to ONLY the Father, but is also applied to Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
You will often see JWs here misrepresent the Trinity teaching in many, many ways. One of the common ways they misrepresent it, is when Rando often claims that we believe there is another God besides Jehovah. That is simply stupidity at work. There is NO God besides Jehovah...NONE. Trinitarians do not say there is. We simply acknowledge that 3 Persons in the Scripture, are called "Jehovah", which is the name of the one true God.
Trinitarians are not the polytheists...JWs are.
You also must understand that the JW "bible", the New World "Translation", contains the name "Jehovah" just under 7,000 times.
Now, as for your question on Colossians 1:15...There are some things you should know about that passage, as found in the NWT.
First, the passage in context, verses 15-18, clearly show that Jesus Christ is the Creator of ALL things. This is a strong indicator that He is fully God. In fact, what you should know, is that the JW "bible" added the word "other" 4 separate times in these verses, in order to keep Jesus from being the Creator of ALL things. He now becomes the Creator of all "OTHER" things, because they teach that He Himself is created.
Its pretty sad when they have to add a word not found in ANY Greek manuscript, and not implied in the context itself, in order to prop up their false doctrine. We don't get to add words, to make a verse say what we WANT it to say, and that is what the WT did with this one.
No, there is no evidence that Jesus was created. In fact, we have Biblical evidence to the contrary. Right here in this chapter, as a matter of fact. Jesus is said to be "BEFORE ALL THINGS"...not all "OTHER" things, as in the NWT.
Speaking of Christ, Hebrews 1:10 says...."And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands"
We see from this, that Jesus is the Creator of the heavens and the earth.
In Michah 5:2, we see this concerning Christ....
"But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, [though] thou be little among the thousands of Judah, [yet] out of thee shall he come forth unto me [that is] to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth [have been] from of old, from everlasting."
The word here for "everlasting", is the same word found in Psalm 90:4, to refer to the eternal nature of Jehovah God.
Psalm 90:2- "Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou [art] God."
The term in Colossians 1:15, which your co-worker is misunderstanding to mean "first one created", is actually a reference to Christ's being PREEMINENT OVER creation. The term "firstborn" often carries this meaning, rather than being a reference to the order of one's actual birth. We see the term used this way in Psalm 89:27 also, in reference to David, who happened to be the SEVENTH born. He was called "firstborn" because of his position of preeminence.
That this is the meaning in Colossians 1:15, can be seen by simply reading verse 18. The entire context of that passage, does not allow for Christ to be a creation, because it says He created ALL things in Heaven. Again, the WT ADDED the word "other", 4 times, in order to make Christ a "creation", instead of the Creator of all things.
Your co-worker should have this pointed out to him.
You asked...."Is my understanding of Gen. 1:1 correct that before the heavens and earth were created there was nothing? When exactly was Jesus created then according to the JWs? My co- worker has no answer for this. Was it before the beginning of creation or after? It surely has to be before Gen.1:27. Seems like a pretty significant event that took place. You'd think there would be some mention of that before Col.1:15."
I agree with your understanding of Genesis, as for there being nothing before the creation. Now, there could be an argument that the heavenly beings such as angels were created prior to the earth, but even that isn't a certainty, and I have seen some merit for arguing it the other way also.
The JW teaching is that Jesus is the first direct creation by Jehovah God, meaning that there was a time that Jesus did not exist. However, there is NO statement about Jesus being created at ANY time, as you pointed out. Only Scriptures that are misused by the Watchtower to teach this, and ignoring the Scriptures that show Jesus is eternal, and is the Creator Himself. JWs try to get around this, by saying that Jehovah created Jesus, and then Jesus created everything else...Hence, the word "other" in Colossians 1:15-18. But again, this word was ADDED by the New World Translation Committee, for the purpose of keeping their doctrine intact.
I hope this answer has helped, and I hope you have a wonderful day. God bless.