Jehovah`s Witness/Our Personal Literature

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QUESTION: Hi Derrick,
Let me share this with you..SOME EXPRESSIONS EXPLAINED
Humility: We show humility by not thinking that we
are more important than others and, as a result, by not acting as if we were better than others. This was in our WT (not for the public) for this Sunday...Because Jesus was humble and mild, he treated imperfect humans kindly and fairly.He didnot make them feel that theywere stupid or not good enough. Jesus was not
harsh or hard to please.If they learned from him and obeyed his
teachings, they would feel comforted. Derrick this is not all of it I highlighted the parts I wanted you to see. After reading this do you think any of the rude crew reflect this. We are taught at the hall to imitate Jesus. Many folk think Witnesses don't believe in Jesus but that's not true. I think because they stress the name Jehovah so much folks think they leave Jesus out. We have many books on Jesus. One is particular is..The Greatest Man who ever lived, another one is, Learn from the Great Teacher & another one, My Favorite, Come be my follower. These books tell of who Jesus was & still is. Again, we are told to imitate him. Jesus was humble, he took pity on people who didn't know about him & his Father God. He touched the lepers, (with no gloves I might add). The reason why the we preach is that is what Jesus did while he was on earth. Yes, he was bold but never rude. So was Paul, who was bold & went thru more persecution than anyone, except Jesus, but he never was rude, even when he was in front of nobles, he had a way of addressing them, that they even had to listen..All that to say is, that I hope the rude crew see's this post & realize that they way they replied to you & many others is not the norm. I also wanted to post this for others to see that witnesses are supposed to be humble & mild tempered no matter what. Not to think that witnesses are like the rude crew. I am happy to see apologies, even if there are not heartfelt, as you say, it's a start. Derrick don't let them get to you. Add salt to your replies, let folks see what a real christian is life even if the doctrine isn't the same. I know what you mean about the witnesses never learning from others, but what you can do is show by example. I have brought many things to their attention, they see the world as us & them. They always say the worldly people are this way & that way...I always point out that if everyone was a bad as they say, why aren't we stepping over dead bodies, all day long. Suppose a witness falls out in the street, what will you (a witness do) wait for another witness to come & help them, you never know who will come to your aide, it may just be a WORDLY PERSON. How can any of us judge the relation a person has with God/Jesus. How do you think a person that is in remission of cancer views God/Jesus, we are not in their minds, so how can we judge. We can only listen & let them know there is a higher power out there & it helps us to endure. So if anyone reads this post, remember Jesus, he was a teacher,& he walked this earth in peace..& didn't he say..MY PEACE I LEAVE WITH YOU. I will not reply to any of those rude ones, because that makes me like them. No I'm not perfect but just because I believe the bible more than man...Derrick I will leave it there, 'til we talk again.

Dee

ANSWER: Hello Dee, I hope you have had a good week-end.  Sorry to just now be getting back to you, but I was tied up all day yesterday, and with church today.  

Thank you for sharing the lesson from the WT on humility.  I agree that the way that Jesus taught is in such contrast from the way some of the JWs on here do it, that it is like night and day.  I always get somewhat amused when they try to justify it by saying something like "Well, Jesus called people names and told them they were hypocrites", etc.  That simply shows Biblical ignorance, because they fail to take into consideration a few key points:

1.  They are not Jesus, as Jesus knew what was in the HEARTS of the people He rebuked, and was capable of passing such judgments.  These people do not know what is in the hearts, nor do they know the lives, of the people they converse with on this site.

2.  Jesus never once LIED and stated untruths about people in His statements to them.  

Big difference right there.

Yes, Jesus was certainly the perfect example of humility, even though He had more right to consider Himself above others than anyone does.  Yet, He didn't do that.  Philippians 2:5-11 is a wonderful read, to show that Jesus humbled Himself and took upon the role of a servant.

You know, I contrast Jesus' words with the judgments handed down by certain ones on this forum, as they think they have been commissioned to judge who can be saved and who cannot.  Jesus stated that ALL who come to HIM, would be saved.  He never said one word about coming to an Organization or a religious denomination.  When people say about another that "They have no hope of salvation", they are making a judgment that is reserved for God Himself.

Plus, they are denying the power that is in the blood of Christ, to save and cleanse a person.  It isn't the person they are really insulting...they are insulting Christ and His shed blood, which was for the forgiveness of ALL sins, for anyone who would come to Him in repentance.  Apparently they believe there are certain sins that the blood of Christ cannot atone for, and one of those sins is apparently rejecting a man-made Organization as having anything to do with salvation.


You asked...."Derrick this is not all of it I highlighted the parts I wanted you to see. After reading this do you think any of the rude crew reflect this."


Uhm, no...they do not.  You know, the thing that amazes me the most, is the fact that even when they are caught lying, they just continue doing the same thing anyway.  I pointed out just the other day, how Rando was misquoting me and claiming that I said something that was actually copied and pasted from an article, that I clearly said did NOT fully reflect my position on the matter.  So, what does he do when caught lying?  Simple...write another post and do the very same thing again, and misquote the same article again.

Somehow, I don't think Jesus would do that.  In fact, I don't think Jesus EVER spoke one single untruth in ANY statement He made.  So no, I don't think the rude crew is imitating Jesus in the least, but instead, are showing what spirit they are actually operating under.


You wrote..."I am happy to see apologies, even if there are not heartfelt, as you say, it's a start. Derrick don't let them get to you. Add salt to your replies, let folks see what a real christian is life even if the doctrine isn't the same."


You are correct about that.  The fact is, they do not have the ability to get to me.  Honestly, I find their remarks humorous in one way, because it is so obvious what they are doing, and they are pretty much the only ones that can't see it.  On the other hand, there is nothing funny about it, because they are endangering their own souls by being dishonest and breaking the commands of God.  

And the sad thing is, they have somehow convinced themselves that they are imitating Jesus, but as you pointed out, they are so far away from Jesus' example, it is pathetic.


I appreciate the reminder to show people what a real Christian is.  Some of what they falsely say, I just ignore.  Other things, I have felt the need to address because there are new readers all the time here, and they need to know the truth.  For instance, when one certain expert says in a post that "Derrick Holland constantly uses satanic attacks against JW's character, and I have a list of 5 lies he has told", a new reader might see that and get a bad first impression.  And there is no question that is the intent...So, the readers need to see a response, where I challenge the expert to post his so-called "list of lies", and show an example of a character attack.

That way, they see that the accusation is false.  They see the person who posted the accusation, get challenged to produce proof of their accusation, and they also see that same person who was talking about character attacks, telling me that "you have no morals", "you're a liar", etc.  So, they see that the expert has nothing to back up his charge against character attacks, and at the same time, see that expert making the very attacks they themselves are complaining about.

So yes, it IS important to maintain a true Christian attitude during it all, even when you have to address what they falsely say.  I pray for those people...I truly do.  That is what the Bible says to do, to those who falsely accuse you, and try and slander you.  Because they are in trouble with God.  I think about Rando, and the fact that he is getting older.  And if he is to be believed (a BIG "if"), he is not in the best of health.  And I think about his spiritual state, and what it will be for him having to face Jehovah God with lies on his record.  The Scriptures state that it is a FEARFUL thing to fall into the hands of the living God.  

But yes, since telling the readers of this board to pray for them and their salvation, I have tried to put that into practice myself, as well.  

And fortunately, I KNOW they are not the "normal" JW in their mannerisms and the way they act.  That is because I know so many JWs, who are not like this.  My own mother, if she were to read the statements from the likes of Rando, DW, or Sister T, would not even BELIEVE they are real JWs.  She would say they are apostates posing as Witnesses, to give the religion a bad name.  Now, I don't think that's the case, mind you.  But she would say that, because she would never believe or accept that a JW would act in such a manner with no remorse.  Just like YOU were doubted and it was claimed that you were probably lying, by a certain JW expert....My mom would claim HE is lying about being a JW.  Now, I know you are telling the truth, but I'm just saying....you were doubted because you dared to question certain teachings, and point out the obvious about their mannerisms.  You certainly aren't the first person to notice how they are.

I would not want to give the impression that they are the norm.  I will say this, however...The internet has opened my eyes to a few things.  Before joining this forum, I knew NO JWs that I thought were capable of repeated and outright lying, just because they don't like a person.  I thought a real JW would always come back and apologize, or retract a false statement.  I didn't think one would let a false statement stand.  And if there WAS one that would do that, I didn't think others would rush to his defense.  So needless to say, being on the internet has shown me that SOME JWs CAN be some of the most dishonest and underhanded people I have ever encountered.  On the other hand, I know that it isn't fair to say that all JWs are that way, or to lump them all in together with a few crazies.  Or as you say, the "rude crew"....:)

I remember a certain video I watched on YouTube awhile back, where a "Christian" was "witnessing" to JWs who had come into his neighborhood.  Now, I agreed with everything the man said DOCTRINALLY.  But as I was watching his mannerisms, and his rudeness to the Witnesses, I was honestly ashamed.  Not of being a Christian, but in the poor way this man was representing Jesus Christ to lost people.  In watching that video, I agreed with the man doctrinally.  But in ACTION, the Witnesses were far more humble and peaceable than the "Christian" was.  In fact, the elderly Witness gentleman tried to shake hands with the "Christian" as they were leaving, and the "Christian" refused to shake his hand.  I thought..."What a jerk" when I saw that.  

And you know what?  I wrote the guy, and told him I thought he was not representing Christ in a way that was pleasing to Him, and that although his words were right, his actions were a disgrace.  I didn't jump in there and cover for him, or side with him, just because he is my brother in Christ, and was attacking the poor old Jehovah's Witnesses.  Why?  Because this man lost sight of the fact these were people who were right there in his neighborhood, and he had blown an excellent chance to witness for Christ, and have a meaningful discussion with them.  Instead, he showed rudeness and arrogance.  And I told him so.  

That's just how I am.  What that guy was doing, was the same thing we see the Witnesses doing on here.  I don't know of a single non-Witness expert on here who is acting the least bit unchristian in their actions or words.  And they do not deserve the slander they are receiving.


You asked...."How do you think a person that is in remission of cancer views God/Jesus, we are not in their minds, so how can we judge."


Well, I think I can relate to that one pretty well.  Because back in 1997-1998, I myself was battling Stage IV Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma, and I know that a cancer diagnosis at the age of 28, was the last thing in the world I was expecting.  I know one thing...it was the hardest I had ever prayed, and I can tell you that my view of God at that time, was that He was my everything.  The doctors could only do what they could do, but at the end of the day, my survival depended on Him.  I had a 22 month old, and a 3 month old, when I was diagnosed in July of 1997.  I remember looking at them, and telling God..."I want to see my boys grow up, and I want them to know who their daddy is".  And I felt the peace of God that very evening, let me know that He was with me, and all would be okay.  And 14 years after my last major treatment, I am still in remission.

So, how do I view God?  I view Him as the One Who carries me through my lowest valleys, and brought me out of my trial, and has been FAR better to me than I deserve.  By all rights, I shouldn't be here.  I know of people that had cancer, who's disease was far less advanced than mine, and they didn't survive.  I have a very close friend right now, who is only 36 years old, and has been given a year to live if a clinical trial does not work for him.  We pray for a miracle, but I will say that I have never seen a man so full of faith and trust in God, in my entire life.  His attitude is..."Whatever God's will is, that is what I want."    

Something about facing death, makes you realize that your relationship with God is not something secondary....its what will take you through anything that life throws at you.  And it had better be the real thing, when you are facing death.


You wrote...."I will not reply to any of those rude ones, because that makes me like them. No I'm not perfect but just because I believe the bible more than man...Derrick I will leave it there, 'til we talk again."


I admire you for that, and I pray that you will always keep the Bible as supreme in your life, and realize every doctrine of man must submit to it.  Doctrines change, but the Word of God does not.

Thanks for writing, Dee.  I hope you have a great week.  Sorry to not reply immediately, but I was tied up all week-end.  I actually have another question waiting too, but I took yours first, because you are peaceable.  The other guy is just wanting to argue.  So, he gets to wait until tomorrow for his reply....:)


Talk soon, Dee.

Derrick






---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Derrick,
Sorry for not replying sooner. I have a talk next week. So I'm preparing for it..I have 2 scriptures to work with normally, we get a theme from our reasoning book & then we have to pick the setting. My talk is about basically "Chasing Riched, instead of putting God First"...I'm done, just have to hook up with my householder (another sister at the hall) to go over it...right now she has a bad cold...but, her part is small, so I'm the one that has to really read it many times. I set it up as someone getting a promotion & putting their work before coming to the meetings..I think it'll be fine...I have only 5 mins...so far, I'm just under 5...Anyway, all that to say..Sorry...
Does your mother ever look at this site ? I hope you get to the bottom of this Luis/Wife ordeal..I think go back to the original conversation & then see what's what...always go back to the scene of the crime...LOL...I looked on the site again this AM. Someone asked Sis T, a question, she couldn't resist being sarcastic, wonder if the rude crew want to get folks into the hall or turn them away. Why can't they just answer the questions instead of looking at if the person has a hidden agenda. Why they should be more than willing to answer a question that a person in or out of the hall is asking...Privileged I say. This is their time to shine. Again, just answer the question, keep your opinions to yourself. I guess that's hard for them to do. Again, maybe that's why the Society allowed them to be on this site...maybe to let off some steam..I would be very interested in finding out how your Mom feels about some of the rude crew. Do you & your Mom get along because of you not being a witness ? Because Mom's love us no matter what...
I am so happy to hear you are in remission of cancer. That in itself will draw you to God...What I'm hoping is that this site becomes a site of sharing love & the thoughts of God/Jesus. Peaceful, & where folks can come for help. Do you get many private questions from active witnesses ?
Hope to hear from you...Take Care.

Dee

ANSWER: Good afternoon, Dee.  I certainly understand about getting busy, and not being able to respond immediately.  No worries there.  Sometimes things get really hectic for me as well, with working a job, going to ball games with my boys, preparing lessons each week for Sunday School, etc.  Seems like there are often not enough hours in the day.

Okay, you asked some questions, so let me get right on in there and answer them.


You asked...."Does your mother ever look at this site?"


To my knowledge, no.  She has never mentioned it, nor has she ever indicated that she is aware of my participation here.  I think she would mention it, if she was aware of it.  She is a very devout JW, and most likely does not visit ANY sites regarding JWs, except for the offical site for the Jehovahs's Witness religion.  Its kind of like the point I made earlier....If she came here and saw the extremely unchristian conduct by the "rude crew" here, she would immediately deny that they were real Witnesses.  And no matter what I said to her, or what proof I gave her, she would simply refuse to believe it.  In fact, I have thought seriously about letting her see the outright lies and slander that her brethren post here about me, but again...it would be pointless, because she would just deny that they are actual Witnesses, because in her mind, NO true Witnesses would act like that.


You wrote..."I hope you get to the bottom of this Luis/Wife ordeal"


Well, I think that mystery is solved...Rando lied.  Period.  There is nothing else to it.  Dee, I don't know how long you have actually been reading this board, but what he did with that thing of accusing you of being Luis, was nothing new.  In fact, he has done that same childish thing ever since he started in this forum, back in 2007.  He has accused me personally of being at least 20 other people...LOL.  

The truth is, Rando is a strange sort of bird.  When he first joined here, he had his settings to allow ratings on his answers.  He no longer does this, but he used to.  He used to actually send HIMSELF questions, then rate his OWN answers as "10" all the way across the board, and then nominate HIMSELF for "Expert of the Month".  It was obvious what he was doing, and when myself and a few others (Luis included) began pointing it out, he simply tried to claim that I was the one sending myself questions under other names.  Normally, Rando accuses others of what he himself is doing...a common trait among certain ones here.

And from his first joining here, he has done so many dishonest and ridiculous things, its hard to keep track of all of them.  Like misquoting me on the Easter topic...again, that is nothing new.  Rando has actually been known to INVENT quotes from me out of thin air.  When he is corrected, he always tries to change the subject to something else, or claim "the demons are screaming loudly", or something like that.  Anything to hope people forget that he just made himself look ridiculous.  

But again, he has accused just about everyone that has ever written him, of being me.  There is something seriously wrong with him, and I have no idea why he is even here.  He allows 3 questions per week, the vast majority he sends to himself.  Getting an actual question to him is very difficult, and you have to time it just right, and catch him when he first becomes "available" again.

The thing about Rando, is that he ALWAYS gets caught in his deception, ALWAYS get burned, and never learns.  He's like a guy who has put his hand on a hot stove burner 500 times, but then comes back the next week, looks at the stove, and says..."Hmm, I wonder what will happen if I touch that?"

A really hard person to figure.

But as for the Luis thing...no mystery there.  I know where Luis lives, and I knew where your questions were originating from.  And that nonsense about the "internet scrambler" was just a weak and ridiculous attempt to try and get Rando out from under his own lie.  I would be curious to know what conversations went on "behind the scenes" between them, to get him to apologize....:)


You said...."I looked on the site again this AM. Someone asked Sis T, a question, she couldn't resist being sarcastic, wonder if the rude crew want to get folks into the hall or turn them away."


You know, that's a good question.  I have actually had people ask me if I believe these are really disfellowshipped people who are TRYING to cast the Society in a negative light.  And truthfully, I don't.  I honestly think those 3 are real JWs, and who have been drinking the Kool-Aid so long, that they have somehow managed to convince themselves that they are doing the Organization a favor with their unchristian tactics and mannerisms.

I honestly didn't notice Sister T's answer, as I was pushed for time that morning and didn't read them all.  But I did notice DW's answer, and his little "slap" at me, just before going "on vacation".  Now, if I were the same grade of person that DW is, I COULD point out that he apologized for his actions, but then proceeded to take another "slap" at me, and then immediately goes "on vacation".  Now, I COULD claim that he did this to "get away from the heat" on the board.  But I am not DW...Perhaps he was already going on vacation anyway.  But I noticed he did use the opportunity to take one of his cheap shots again.

Actually, it was nothing new...It was just the same stuff he always says.  DW is another one of those who DOES the very thing he accuses others of doing.  He has already been shown to be all hot air, with nothing to back up what he says.  Until he says something new, that actually has some substance, he is best ignored.  So far, he has said nothing of substance.  He likes to claim that he has educated the board about "satanic tactics", which is laughable.  The fact is, he has been repeatedly challenged to show evidence for his false claim, and he refuses.

Like last week...He claimed that I had admitted months ago to using "satanic tactics".  Well, of course that was a lie, so I challenged him to show where I did.  He then comes back and claimed that I "removed" the post.  

And what he DIDN'T tell the readers of the board, is that after publicly implying that I REMOVED a past answer of mine (which I did not, and don't even think its possible to do), I actually FOUND and SENT to him the link he was looking for.  Yes, the one he CLAIMED I removed.  Well, do you think DW had the integrity to acknowledge that he used his own "satanic tactic" of falsely accusing me?  No, of course not...He just rejected the question where I sent him the link, that he claimed I removed.  And here's why....Because in that link, or ANY OTHER link for that matter, nowhere did I admit or say what he claimed.

I honestly think these clowns really believe somehow, that their lying and slander will be viewed by Jehovah God, as something done in His defense, and will be rewarded.


You asked...."Why can't they just answer the questions instead of looking at if the person has a hidden agenda. Why they should be more than willing to answer a question that a person in or out of the hall is asking...Privileged I say. This is their time to shine. Again, just answer the question, keep your opinions to yourself. I guess that's hard for them to do."


Yes, many people have wondered the same thing.  But here's the thing....The reason they should just ANSWER THE QUESTION as you say, is because that is what THEY SIGNED UP HERE TO DO.  I have never ceased to get a laugh out of their constant whining about non-Witnesses being here to answer questions, yet they themselves have trouble answering questions sent to them.   I can't tell you the times I have had a question sent to me, that one of them either rejected and sent back to the questioner, or they were rude to the questioner, or they failed to give a straight answer.  So, the person then sends it to me.  And then they complain about it.

My theory is...If a person sends you a reasonable, or non-harassing question, then answer it.  Now sometimes, I admit that a person sends you questions and it is obvious their motive is merely to argue.  Still, I think the question should be dealt with in a straight-forward manner, until it becomes obvious that you are going in circles.  

But the fact is...they volunteered here, and nobody forced them to.  At least most of them anyway.  There is some possible evidence that one or two of them are actually sent here by the Society.  But I agree with you....I fail to see the point of telling the questioner how "dumb" they are, instead of just answering the question.


You asked...."I would be very interested in finding out how your Mom feels about some of the rude crew."


She would just refuse to believe they are Witnesses.  I don't know if you were reading the board several months ago, when someone sent expert Brenda Martin some samples of some of the comments from a few of the JW experts here.  Mrs. Martin came back and said she was "shocked", and believed the Witness experts were actually apostates, because no real JW would answer like that.  The fact is, my mom is very much like Brenda Martin in many ways, and that is one of them...a complete refusal to see anything except through Watchtower lenses.


You asked...."Do you & your Mom get along because of you not being a witness ? Because Mom's love us no matter what..."


Actually, we do.  When we don't discuss our doctrinal differences, that is.  Like on Facebook, my mom is often sending me things about abortion, or other moral issues that we both agree on.  We find that we can discuss things like that, because our positions are the same.  

But we normally do not discuss our doctrinal differences, which is frustrating to me a little bit, but I also understand it keeps things peacable.  I just have to pick and choose my spots to say something here and there, or give a testimony of some sort.  

We get together for meals, and my family even takes a beach trip with my mom and stepdad every year, and we always have a good time.  So, for that I am very thankful that I was never baptized, because I recognize that if I had been, I would likely have no relationship with my mom right now.  And I truly believe she would do what the Society expects of her, in that regard.

You have to understand, Dee...I am not perceived by the Witnesses that actually DO KNOW me, as the slanderers on here try to paint me.  The people who tell you what a rotten guy I am, and basically Satan incarnate, are the ones who do not know me and would not know me if they met me on Aisle 12 in Wal Mart.  Every JW that I know personally, gets along just fine with me.  

That is why their actions are so evil and wicked....Because they are not slandering me or the other non-Witnesses, based on ANY "facts" or "knowledge" of us...It is just their need to slander, because they think they are defending Jehovah in doing so.  You know that, because you became part of their satanic tactics as well, for merely saying there were some teachings you didn't find Biblical, and for daring to suggest that some Witnesses here lack humility.


You said...."I am so happy to hear you are in remission of cancer. That in itself will draw you to God"


Yes, it certainly does draw you to Him, and yes, it was quite an ordeal.  A very scary time in my life, even though I would pray and feel reassurance that I would be okay.  Still very hard not to let your mind run wild with the possibilities.  I remember my boys at the time, were 22 months, and 3 months old.  And I remember vowing that they would know me, and I would be around for them as they grew up.  That is where my bull-headed nature really paid off for me.  And I was put on prayer lists all over the internet, and churches across the country.  And I have NO doubt that good medical care, and most of all, a POWERFUL GOD, are to be credited for my recovery.


Also, you asked...."Do you get many private questions from active witnesses?"


Some, but not a ton of them.  I have had some from Witnesses who, although they are JWs, see the truth about what is going on here in this forum, and are not so blind as to go along with it.  I will give those Witnesses credit, even though I would have expected far more of them.  But for every one that writes, I am sure there are many more who don't.  That being said, there are Witnesses who are truly embarrassed by their brethren here.  Then, there are the ones who write, who have no regard for truth and honesty whatsoever, and will stick together at all costs, even if they have to jump in the ship with proven liars.  

Every person has to make their own call, as to whether they want to go down with someone else, or not.  Personally, I don't care if a person claims to be a born again Christian...If they are making a mockery of the cause of Christ, and lying about people, then I am not going to jump in the ship with them.  I guess that is where the "us against them" mentality comes into play, with some of these people.


Well, I guess I'll close this for now.  As always, I am glad to hear from you, and happy to answer your questions.  I hope to hear from you soon.


Derrick

 






---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Derrick,
You sound like a family man & a spiritual man as well, so you have alot on your plate. God requires alot of time.  I'm happy to hear you & your family, agree to disagree..Your Mom is like many witnesses. The Org. is like Mom to them, and you know nobody likes anyone to talk about their Momma (LOL), them is fighting words.  I think many witnesses, this is their last stop in life, if the Org. is wrong, they will really lose faith in this life, this is their last line of defense. Yes, they do have the attitude of them & us. I once spoke to a sister & she was saying how the folks of the world (oh, by the way, they are not the same as the other folks in the world, if that were true, I ride the trains daily & if THEY were so bad, we'd be stepping over dead bodies all day long). I said to this sister once...if you fell out in the street & needed assistance & someone of the WORLD, were to come to your aide, would you turn them away until a witness came along ? As most witnesses say when you bring something to their attention that they may have thought about but just put it out of their mind, their favorite answer is.."THAT'S TRUE". I'm like to point out different things to them, to make them think...just like they point out different things to me to make me think. Just because somebody does not sit next to us in the hall doesn't mean they are not honest hearted christians. God isn't like us, he won't just go to the hall to save everyone, but he will go to all his churches & search out the honest hearted ones. I would like to share a scripture with you...
Luke 9:49 & 50..I use two bibles...The New World Translation & The Good News Bible (simpler english) The NWT is almost written just as poetic as the King James Version. So when I read the NWT & can't make heads not tails from it I go to the Good News...so this is from the Good News..Whoever Is Not against You Is for You (heading) Luke 9
49 John spoke up, “Master, we saw a man driving out demons in your name, and we told him to stop, because he doesn't belong to our group.”
50 “Do not try to stop him,” Jesus said to him and to the other disciples, “because whoever is not against you is for you.”
In response John said: “Instructor, we saw a certain man expelling demons by the use of your name and we tried to prevent him, because he is not following with us.”50But Jesus said to him: “Do not YOU men try to prevent [him], for he that is not against YOU is for YOU.”
What this means to me...that even though we all are not of the same cloth does mean that person is not doing the will of God. This is a lesson on division which is a pitfall from Satan. I think he likes this division thing..but it's up to us to read the bible to see past Satans deceptions. Isn't that really what it is about ? I like talking to you why? Because you are a christian and seem to be a nice person, even though our doctrine is different. If you were to come where I am or vise versa, wouldn't we want to meet ? Because at the end of the day...all this knowledge we have doesn't mean a thing if we don't have the fruitage of the spirit. To Be Good to One another. That's the bottom line. So I shared this scripture with you to let you see, that even though we are all different & believe in GOD that makes all the difference. Whether God is Jesus or not we will find out won't we...God will reveal all things in time. I also would one day like to share this scripture with the witnesses as well. Because of their THEM & US...This is one of the reasons it's hard for me to drink all the kool-aide. We have alot of literature with many scriptures. I read them but also read the scripture before & after to get the setting...So the scripture I sent you today we were told to read Luke 9:46-48, but then my eyes dropped down to 49 & 50. That's when the light went off in my head. When I read the bible I see a bigger picture than doctrine. As the Bible says, God & his word is the final word, no matter what MAN may say or how intelligent he is..whether they know Greek or Hebrew...I looked on the site yesterday & saw a reply from Brenton..he was asked about the Easter comments on the site..but one thing that I thought was interesting was that no bible is 100%..& he says:
NO Bible in existence today is 100% accurate 100% of the time.  They are accurate to the point of showing us what Gods plan for mankind has been through the centuries and into the future, how God deals with us and why Jesus was here. He said some other stuff to. But no comment. This is from "Your take on Easter" It's an interesting read...But it is refreshing to hear a witness admit this. Interpretation...so difficult for us modern day brains to wrap our heads around what was meant back then. Once you leave something up to MAN'S INTERPRETATION..put on your seat belts because you're about to have a bumpy ride. I love learning the bible but what bothers me is where I should be...Religion & People are so divisional. My God is right & yours is wrong...it's such a bigger picture than that...Peter asked where should we go...I ask the same question where can one go to have pure worship & to over look doctrine but to worship GOD/JESUS in love, faith, glory & to be good to one another. That's the place of worship for me...Pure worship without the interpretation of Man. What a joy it would be to be around when Jesus walked to earth to hear first hand what he said & did...Hope to hear from you..Try & take it easy..Your family needs you.

Dee

Answer
Good evening, Dee.  I hope your evening is going well.  So sorry to be delayed.  I have gotten behind on several questions this week-end, due to a number of unexpected events that came up.  Glad to finally be getting back to normal now...lol.

Well, thank you for the observation about being a spiritual man.  I certainly try to be, but sometimes fall short just like anybody else.  I believe the least a person can do, is to try to follow the Scriptures in each area of our lives, to the best of our ability, considering the grace of God that has been given to us.

And yes, I am a family man also.  Been married for 20 years this April, and our boys are now 17 and 15.  They are sports fanatics...that's about the only way to describe it.  

You are also correct in your assessment about my mom....Very devout and sincere, but will not even CONSIDER the possibility that the Organization might actually be wrong or misleading on something, until THEY decide they have been wrong, and receive "new light".  I can remember telling my mom that the actual Trinity teaching was nothing close to the way the Society presents it in the literature, and she basically let me know that the Society would not misrepresent in any way, and that they knew more about my belief than I do.  Hard reasoning with someone who thinks in that way.


You said..."I think many witnesses, this is their last stop in life, if the Org. is wrong, they will really lose faith in this life, this is their last line of defense."


I think you nailed it right there.

In fact, I have seen NUMEROUS Witnesses ask a person who is contemplating leaving..."Where else can you go?", and they use the Scripture where Jesus asked the disciples if they would also leave Him, and then implying that the Organization is the only place one can go to, to find the words of life (John 6:67-69).  The sad part is, that is such a misuse of the Scripture, because they were not talking about an Organization...they were talking about Jesus HIMSELF being the One with the words of life, and saying there was nowhere else to go but to HIM.

That is why it is so vital that our faith be placed only in Christ alone for our salvation, and not in any religion or Organization.


You said...."Just because somebody does not sit next to us in the hall doesn't mean they are not honest hearted christians. God isn't like us, he won't just go to the hall to save everyone, but he will go to all his churches & search out the honest hearted ones. I would like to share a scripture with you..."


Well, I agree with you there.  The Kingdom Hall does not have a monopoly on God, regardless of what they think.  But you do realize of course, that your saying that goes against EVERYTHING that JWs are taught to believe.  You have seen it here....condemnation of those who do not accept everything the Society says, as truth.  Even towards you, because you said that you didn't think everything they say is necessarily Biblical...From that statement there, you were maligned, accused of lying, accused of being someone else, and your whole story was called into doubt.  To me, that is one of the dangers of mind control such as that....It becomes a basis for judging anyone and everyone who exercises their right to read the Bible for themselves.

I don't know if you have been reading the exchange between Grunbaum and a gentleman, regarding Christ taking rulership in 1914, but I think the expert's reply bears this out.  Basically, the guy asking the question, has asked a question about Rev. 11:5 that the expert is having extreme difficulty dealing with, so he immediately does the "Well, we are the only ones who can interpret the Bible correctly anyway, because you don't have holy spirit", as a means of insulting the guy who asked the question that stumped him.  Basically, telling the guy that he has no business trying to read or interpret the Bible apart from the Organization, because only the Organization can tell us what a Scripture really MEANS, regardless of what it actually says.

It truly amazes me.


You wrote...."What this means to me...that even though we all are not of the same cloth does mean that person is not doing the will of God. This is a lesson on division which is a pitfall from Satan. I think he likes this division thing..but it's up to us to read the bible to see past Satans deceptions"


Again, I agree.  There is not one single word in the entire New Testament, about joining any certain religious group.  The thing we have to remember, is that the Scriptures talk MUCH about coming to Christ, but nothing about joining a religious group.  Rather, when a person is born again through faith in Christ, they are PLACED by adoption into the church that Jesus shed His blood for, and into the family of God.  That is the message that Satan hates, and opposes here with a vengeance.


You wrote..."I like talking to you why? Because you are a christian and seem to be a nice person, even though our doctrine is different. If you were to come where I am or vise versa, wouldn't we want to meet ? Because at the end of the day...all this knowledge we have doesn't mean a thing if we don't have the fruitage of the spirit. To Be Good to One another."


Well, thank you for that...saying I'm a Christian and a nice person.  I'm glad that you realize that I am NOT Satan incarnate, and that I don't "hate" anyone, as Sister T falsely told you.  Glad you saw through that one, and didn't allow her to manipulate your thinking in that way.  Yes, I enjoy talking with you too.  You seem to be willing to take the Scriptures above the teachings of men, which is commendable, given the circumstances you are in.  You also seem to have a desire to learn the Scriptures and follow Christ alone.  And perhaps if I ever know that my family will be in the vicinity of NYC, then perhaps that meeting can happen.  Or, if you are ever going to be in western NC, let me know.   


You wrote...."I looked on the site yesterday & saw a reply from Brenton..he was asked about the Easter comments on the site..but one thing that I thought was interesting was that no bible is 100%..& he says:
NO Bible in existence today is 100% accurate 100% of the time.  They are accurate to the point of showing us what Gods plan for mankind has been through the centuries and into the future, how God deals with us and why Jesus was here. He said some other stuff to. But no comment. This is from "Your take on Easter" It's an interesting read."


Yes, this statement is one of the main areas where Mr. Hepburn and I have a very strong disagreement.  Don't get me wrong...I like the guy.  In fact, I think he is one of the GOOD Witnesses on here.  Never have I seen him lie, slander, insult, call names, or any of the other immature and childish actions that are typical of some of the others.  He is BY FAR the smartest JW expert on this site..there isn't even a close 2nd in that regard.  But as for there not being an accurate Bible today, well, that is another discussion in and of itself.  I think his statement creates some problems that, had he been one of the other experts who are insulting, I probably would have made time to address his points.

But overall, he is a good guy, I believe.  


You wrote...."I love learning the bible but what bothers me is where I should be...Religion & People are so divisional. My God is right & yours is wrong...it's such a bigger picture than that."


Yes, Satan has been quite successful in getting the eyes of so many, off of the REAL issue, hasn't he?  It is really sad.  One thing I tell people, when they ask me about finding a church, is this....Find one that preaches the Bible as the FINAL AUTHORITY on all matters.  I don't push a denomination.  I am an Independent Baptist, and I believe for the most part, they are quite close to letting the Scriptures be the final authority.  I also like the fact that they actually can pick up a Bible in their hands, that they actually BELIEVE is the inspired and preserved Word of God, and don't think that "there is no 100% accurate Bible".  

But I am also Scripturally intelligent enough to know, that the Baptist church can't save anyone from ANY sin.  That takes the blood of Jesus Christ.  And I also know that when we stand before God, we are not going to be judged based on what religious group we cast our lot with.  It will be all about what we did with Jesus Christ, and His blood which was shed for our sins.


And in regards to Peter's statement, again that goes back to the passage in John 6....Jesus asked if they would go away, and Peter asked the question "Lord, to Whom shall we go"?  Basically, Peter understood that to leave Christ, left him no other valid option.  He then answered his own question, by saying..."Thou hast the words of eternal life".  So, we see that Peter realized that if he left Christ, there was truly nowhere to go.  However, a person can leave a religion such as the Watchtower, Catholicism, Baptist, etc, and still come to Christ alone for their salvation.  That is where the answer is, and has been the whole time...In Jesus Christ.


Well, I guess I'll close for now.  Dee, I hope you have a wonderful rest of the evening, and hope to talk soon.  Take care.


Derrick  

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Derrick Holland

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I was raised in the religion known as Jehovah`s Witnesses for 13 years. Since becoming a born-again Christian, I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history. I can answer questions about their doctrines from the perspective of Biblical Christianity. To be clear: Jehovahs Witnesses is the religion of my upbringing, though I myself was never baptized into the religion, nor have I ever been considered as a Jehovahs Witness.

Experience

29 years of Biblical research into the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, and how they differ from the teachings of the Watchtower.

Organizations
I would advise each questioner to this forum, to carefully READ the profiles of the various volunteers. There are several such as myself, who are not practicing JWs, but will provide you with an accurate and honest answer, regarding JW teaching. If we don't know the answer, we will try to research and get it for you. There are also some excellent practicing JWs here, who also endeavor to give you a factual and honest answer, based on their point of view. I believe by getting both points of view, the questioner can weigh the evidence for themselves, and make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are also 3 here who claim to be JWs, but do NOT give honest, or well-researched answers. They will tell you only what they want you to believe, and they often hide facts about the history of their religion, as well as print untruths about other people's beliefs. This is done in an attempt to deceive the unsuspecting reader. It can be easily seen who these 3 are, simply by reading the public posts and "answers" which they write. Their posts will normally be filled with personal attacks, and if you question them about some teaching or aspect of the Watchtower that makes them uncomfortable, they will often reject your question, question your motives for asking it, tell you that you have been reading "apostate" sites, or turn the conversation into an attack on another expert. These ones are better avoided, as there is nothing to be gained by way of positive discussion, as they are not interested in intelligent conversation, or honest dialogue. If after reading the forum, you still have any questions as to who they are, just ask me, and I will be happy to tell you. And I can also provide documentation of their willful dishonesty. One thing is for certain...in a forum where people from both sides claim to be "Christians", there should never be any willful lying. Such ones only create a distraction in the forum, and provide nothing of any real value.

Education/Credentials
High School, some college. Studies of God's Word, the Bible, and how it compares to JW theology. I have found my own personal study and experiences to be far more valuable than any formal education or training. The Bible message is clear...Salvation is ONLY through and by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and no religious organization has a thing to do with it. While attendance at a Bible-preaching, Bible-believing church is a must for spiritual growth and fellowship, no church can grant salvation to its members. Nor is joining a particular group a prerequisite for being saved.

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