Jehovah`s Witness/Play Nice


Hi Derrick,
Well, never thought I'd see the day of apology. To those who think I'm Luis, no I'm not. I am a female. I currently study with the witnesses & I didn't want to start any trouble. All I was saying is that we are to be mild tempered. We are constantly reminded how to respond to folks who do not accept the truth. We are to add salt & if they want to debate, we just say maybe we'll come back again. Again, some of the doctrine does not line up with the bible & that's ok, because in time, God will correct it.  I am there because I like what I hear & I like the friends. I keep my opinions to myself. I only came on this site because I had doubts or questions & only wanted to know if other witnesses saw what I saw. It's ok that they didn't but all that mud slinging not necessary. I didn't slander or question God or Jesus. I'm pressing on as far as going to the hall, doing my studies, commenting, going out in service & so far I've done one talk in out Theocratic Ministry School, as a matter of fact I have another one coming up soon. I'm nervous but once you get past the first talk it tends to be a little easier, it's not the audience that makes me nervous because they are my friends but I want to deliver God's word & so more than the friends, I'm more nervous of God.  What I did notice is that they still had to turn the knife just a little. Maybe most of the witnesses on this site are works in progress. They are not the only rude witnesses I've met, there are a few out there & the org. knows it so they are giving us reminders how to re-act. I hope more folks can come to this site & have decent conversations with the witnesses & that they honestly & kindly answer them. The site though is just for information there isn't any conversation going on. So maybe that's why some of the witnesses came on this site to be able to dialogue.  This Months' Public Watchtower also says, Have Jehovah Witnesses Given incorrect Dates for the end ? Jehovah witnesses have had wrong expectations about when the end end would come....Like Jesus' first-century disciples, we have sometimes looked forward to the fulfillment of the prophesy ahead of God's Timetable.  Derrick, who knew that they would ever print that..there is more to the article...But what they say is that the end will come, but Derrick all Christians know that, that has never been the problem, is that, nobody knows, didn't Jesus say, he didn't even know. Only his Father knew the day & time. The big debate is how it will take place. Some say the world will blow up, some say only the wicked will be done away with...etc. Witnesses preached about the resurrection & that there will be a new earth & a new heaven...most religions believe in an afterlife..but not sure how it's going to play out. None of us want to die & death is a very scary thing...& we all want to come back, each & everyone of us. Some denominations believe in heaven, some believe we are coming back to's something to think about...wherever it is..I want to be there.  What would be a vision for me is if all the religions sat together & studied the Bible together & learn from each other...All denominations are not wrong but they are not all right either. The Bible is the only true & correct doctrine..nothing or no one can dispute the final word, THE matter what..


Good evening, Dee.  Good to hear from you again.

Actually, neither did I think I would ever see an apology.  It is the first one that I can recall that he has ever offered, on anything regarding his slander of other people.  In fact, I waited for it to post yesterday, and when it didn't, I went ahead and posted it myself.  I was asked why I would do that, as Rando is not exactly nice or honest in his statements about me.

But that isn't the point....the fact is, I posted it because it was the right thing to do.  I have posted numerous questions to Rando written by me which he rejected or made some smart remark in response to, so I wanted to be fair.  I figure if I can post the bad stuff he does, it was only right to post the one good gesture from him also.  I am a fair person.  

Unfortunately, the good feeling that came from seeing the man actually humble himself and own up to his false statement, was short-lived.  When I saw his post this morning, he continued to completely misrepresent and tell more lies , not only about my position on Easter, but he also tried to take credit for converting Luis's wife to the JW religion, of all things.

And not only that, but he has "turned you over to Satan", just 2 days after apologizing to you.  Like he has the authority to turn ANYONE over to Satan in the first place.  I am sure that Jehovah God jumps at Rando's dictates.

Never before have I seen someone so try and twist obvious statements.  He tried to make it appear that I was saying Luis's wife had coverted to JWs 3 years ago, and then he tried to take credit for it!  Actually, I did NOT say that Luis's wife had coverted.  I was showing 2 CONTRADICTORY statements from that showed him saying Luis's wife and my mom were NOT JWs', then him coming back and saying recently that Luis's wife IS a JW.  I was merely giving the only 2 ways that his contradictory statements could POSSIBLY be true, because I was writing that to DW and I know DW comes up with stuff like that in order to get Rando out from under his own lies.  So, I was merely anticipating what I knew DW would try to claim, and showing this was not the case.

Rando tried to make it appear that Luis's wife was NOT a JW when he first said she wasn't, but later on became one, thanks to him.  This is a blatant lie, as Luis's wife was ALREADY a JW back when Luis and Rando joined this board, and Rando falsely claimed she wasn't.  

This guy is simply one dishonest manipulator of the facts.  Then, he proceeded to completely lie about what I said regarding Easter.  I will address that in another question I have received today on that topic.

Here is the ACTUAL quote of what I said to DW, that Rando tried to manipulate to get the readers to think he didn't lie, when he actually did....

"Here’s another one for you to try and blame me for…Rando once told us that Luis’ wife was NOT a JW.  Now, he claims that Luis’ wife IS a JW.  Now DW, BOTH statements cannot be true, UNLESS…

A.  Luis’ wife converted to the JW religion in the past 3 yrs
B.  Luis now has a different wife, who is a JW, while his other wife was not

But then again, since Rando does NOT really “know” Luis, then what in the name of common sense is he doing posting such nonsense on this board about people to begin with????  If the man has NO knowledge of the facts of a man’s life, or his family, then where does he get off coming on here and posting about it, and where do YOU come off trying to cover for it by claiming something stupid about using internet scramblers?

COMMENT:  Okay, the obvious point here, is that Rando never had ANY business commenting on Luis's wife, because Rando knows NOTHING about either of them.  To say Luis's wife was not a JW years ago, when she certainly WAS, was a lie...and a stupid one, at that.

But notice how Rando tried to take my statement out of context, and manipulate and twist it to his own benefit, because he was exposed as a liar?  How sad.  A man who claims to love Jehovah, doing what Jehovah detests!    

I find it incredible that Rando, after offering what appeared to be a humble and appropriate apology for making an absolute tail end out of himself, would come right back and try to claim his first statement about Luis's wife was true, when it was not.

So for the record, let's get this straight here and now....

Luis's wife was ALREADY a JW, when Rando claimed in this forum that she was not a JW.  Also, in the same writing, Rando lied again and claimed that my mother is not a real JW.  My mom certainly IS a JW, and I guess next Rando will be taking credit for converting HER, as well.

Fact is, Rando lied.  He actually, for the first time the other day, offered an apology for his lies.  Granted, he owes MANY more apologies than that, but I was actually glad to just see that one.  I mean, you have to start somewhere.  How sad that he couldn't just let a decent apology stand, but instead, has to come back with MORE lies, and then some stupid remark to about the person he just apologized to, about "turning them over to Satan".

At any rate, I still believe I did the right thing by posting his apology, once I saw that it did not post on its own.  At least people know that he did offer it, even if he himself has now reverted right back to his old ways.

Don't worry about him, Dee.  I know you are female, and that you are not Luis.  Nobody besides Rando and those dense enough to actually think he is an honest person, thought otherwise.  And believe me, you could have counted those people on one hand.  There is nothing even similar about your writing styles.  There was no reason at all for him to link you with Luis, except that you were showing them up without even trying to, and that is what they do when someone shows them up...They HAVE to discredit that person somehow.  So, he tried to claim that you and Mr. Rivera were the same person, when everyone knows you are not.  Then, DW came on here trying his best to salvage it, by implying that you might be using an internet scrambler to make it APPEAR you are from the NY/NJ area.  

Incredible...that's all I can say about it.

Yes Dee, you are correct....the Bible is what we are supposed to look to.  There are many things in WT doctrine that do not line up with the Scriptures.  You are correct to take the Scriptures over the literature.  Regardless of how they gnash at you with their teeth, just let God's Word reign supreme, and you will never go wrong.

You wrote...."It's ok that they didn't but all that mud slinging not necessary. I didn't slander or question God or Jesus."

That is correct, Dee...It was not necessary.  But here's the thing...When you voice disagreement with WT teaching, this is VIEWED as slander against God and Jesus.  I can't tell you the times in the past month, that I have been accused of "lying on Jehovah", "slandering God", "hating Jehovah and Jesus", "speaking against Jehovah", etc.  And not ONE word of that is true.  I have never, and WOULD never, speak against Jehovah God, Jesus Christ, the Bible, or anything that is right and true.

Unfortunately, your suggestion that all the Christian groups sit and study the Bible together to learn from each other, will not happen.  It would be nice, yes.  But here's why it won't...And if you haven't picked on it yet, you will.  The fact is, the JWs do not feel they have anything to learn from other Christians.  They view themselves as the only true Christians.  The view themselves as the teachers, and everyone else as students.  And how the students respond, determine whether they are "sheep-like ones", or "goats".  People like me who read the Scriptures without WT glasses on, and see that the Scriptures do not line up with the teaching, are labeled as having "sinned against Holy Spirit", and are said to "have no hope", as if that is Rando's or DW's judgment to make.  

So, the notion that a JW can learn Scriptural insight from a non-Witness, is laughable to them, because that non-Witness is not deriving his teachings from the table of the "Slave" (whoever that may be this week).  Therefore, it cannot be of any value, in their mind.  

If you haven't noticed this mentality yet, you will.  

But let me say this....I have noticed postings from 2 of the 3 worst slanderers in the forum, as of late.  2 of these posters have apologized for at least some of their mannerisms, and I have even noticed a Witness or two writing other experts, talking about how these ones are not bringing glory to Jehovah.  I have to agree with the Witness/Witnesses who wrote those sentiments.  Anyway, those 2 posters have now said they are going to stop with the madness.  That is a good thing, and I HOPE they keep that promise.  It is really sad that the things that have been said, had to be said.  But they left me no choice, when they continually slandered and lied, and claimed all sorts of falsehoods about me, you, and others, that I had no choice but to set straight.  It wasn't pleasant, but had to be done.  

I think it has now been firmly illustrated that they have no examples of lies or character attacks coming from the non-Witnesses, so I hope this can now be put to rest, and that they will not start up with their attacking again.  If they don't, I guarantee you that the non-Witnesses such as myself, will not have to respond to them either.  I noticed that even though they said they were done with it, and I hope that is the case, Sis T still couldn't resist trying to make it appear that it was my fault it started in the first place.  Actually, she was writing to DW slandering me several times before I ever responded to her the first time.  Perhaps she just forgot that little detail, I don't know.

At any rate, I forgive them for everything they have said.  I harbor no ill feelings towards them.  In fact, DW made a charge against me yesterday, that I had removed a link which showed me admitting to "satanic tactics".  Since I have never admitted to any such thing in ANY post, and since I have no idea if it is even possible to remove a post from the forum, I actually helped him look for the link he claimed I removed.  I even sent it to him when I found it, and asked him if that was what he was looking for.  He sent my question back unanswered, which is fine.

The point is, I have nothing to hide from anybody.  I forgive these people and I pray for their salvation.  I hope to meet them in eternity as my brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus.

Dee, I hope to hear from you soon.  Please feel free to write to my anytime, with any questions or comments you may have. Take care of yourself, and have a great evening.


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Derrick Holland


I was raised in the religion known as Jehovah`s Witnesses for 13 years. Since becoming a born-again Christian, I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history. I can answer questions about their doctrines from the perspective of Biblical Christianity. To be clear: Jehovahs Witnesses is the religion of my upbringing, though I myself was never baptized into the religion, nor have I ever been considered as a Jehovahs Witness.


29 years of Biblical research into the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, and how they differ from the teachings of the Watchtower.

I would advise each questioner to this forum, to carefully READ the profiles of the various volunteers. There are several such as myself, who are not practicing JWs, but will provide you with an accurate and honest answer, regarding JW teaching. If we don't know the answer, we will try to research and get it for you. There are also some excellent practicing JWs here, who also endeavor to give you a factual and honest answer, based on their point of view. I believe by getting both points of view, the questioner can weigh the evidence for themselves, and make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are also 3 here who claim to be JWs, but do NOT give honest, or well-researched answers. They will tell you only what they want you to believe, and they often hide facts about the history of their religion, as well as print untruths about other people's beliefs. This is done in an attempt to deceive the unsuspecting reader. It can be easily seen who these 3 are, simply by reading the public posts and "answers" which they write. Their posts will normally be filled with personal attacks, and if you question them about some teaching or aspect of the Watchtower that makes them uncomfortable, they will often reject your question, question your motives for asking it, tell you that you have been reading "apostate" sites, or turn the conversation into an attack on another expert. These ones are better avoided, as there is nothing to be gained by way of positive discussion, as they are not interested in intelligent conversation, or honest dialogue. If after reading the forum, you still have any questions as to who they are, just ask me, and I will be happy to tell you. And I can also provide documentation of their willful dishonesty. One thing is for a forum where people from both sides claim to be "Christians", there should never be any willful lying. Such ones only create a distraction in the forum, and provide nothing of any real value.

High School, some college. Studies of God's Word, the Bible, and how it compares to JW theology. I have found my own personal study and experiences to be far more valuable than any formal education or training. The Bible message is clear...Salvation is ONLY through and by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and no religious organization has a thing to do with it. While attendance at a Bible-preaching, Bible-believing church is a must for spiritual growth and fellowship, no church can grant salvation to its members. Nor is joining a particular group a prerequisite for being saved.

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