Jehovah`s Witness/Questions as to the Raprure


I have read where you reject the hope of the Rapture,without this what hope do christians have,to say only a certain number will be raptured.There are millions of christians who will be Raptured not just 144,000. I was concerned about that after reading your denial of the Rature and copied you response and showed it to my Pastor and he reasured me with this verse After this I saw a vast crowd, too great to count, from every nation and tribe and people and language, standing in front of the throne and before the Lamb
This is in heaven a numberless crowd.

How can you say the numberless crowd is not with the 144,000 in heaven?

Hi Karen and welcome,you should be concerned about you hope for the future,I don't know which thread you are referring to since you didn't provide excerpts so Ill just explain why there is no teaching of a rapture in scripture.

Lets go to the beginning when God created man,I dont want to get into a great crown being seen before the throne because it will just confuse you even more

Ill ask questions and answer them for you.

What was mans hope for the future,was he to go to heaven one day?
Was Adam created to die and go to either heaven or hell fire?
If Adam had not sinned would he be alive today

(Genesis 2:9# . . .Thus Jehovah God made to grow out of the ground every tree desirable to one’s sight and good for food and also the tree of life in the middle of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and bad.

So we are told he could eat from trees and in the middle of the area he had 2 trees and we are told tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and bad

Now God said this to the first man:

#Genesis 2:16-17) . . .And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.”

So this answers one of my questions namely:

"Was Adam created to die"

The answer is no because conversely God is saying as long as you never eat from this particular tree you will live forever  

This leads to the answer to another question:

Was Adam created to die and go to either heaven or hell fire?

No,he was not created to ever die nothing is said he would get sick and die one day ,so the teaching of Hell fire and dying and going to heaven is squashed.

In order for this teaching of a burning hell to be scriptural God would have created it before Adam to have the flames ready and provided a stern warning of its existence we dont see God warning him of such a fiendishly horrible place.

This brings me to the final question:

If Adam had not sinned would he be alive today

<b>Yes ,it was God purpose for man to live forever on earth and never die<b>

So the question now is has the fact that one man sin ruined Gods original purpose
The answer has to be no,why because he is God and he tells us:

(Isaiah 55:11) . . .so my word that goes forth from my mouth will prove to be. It will not return to me without results, but it will certainly do that in which I have delighted, and it will have certain success in that for which I have sent it.

So what was his word for man:

(Genesis 1:27-28) . God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.”

So that is mans hope living forever not in heaven but on earth his word went out and nothing can stop it.

"so my word that goes forth from my mouth will prove to be. It will not return to me without results"

So now with this background what about a rapture of billions to heaven ,we didn't read that was his purpose for men but just the opposite.

In order for heaven to be mans hope in view of what we just went over then God would have told a lie because he clearly said:

"God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth "

Now instead of this hes saying I've changed my purpose for man ,he is to come to heaven in a rapture.

Ignoring his own oath:

"my word that goes forth from my mouth will prove to be. It will not return to me without results"

So because of sin his whole purpose has been throttled so just whisked away believers to heaven and just burn up the earth,that is what we are told from Christendom.

This is not God teaching us this but Demonic teaching,admitting his purpose has been defeated
for the earth we now see him just burning up everything.

I dont believe it I believe just the opposite,he is strong enough to make sure what he plans will be realized one day.

I know you are still confused somewhat Karen as all this time you were waiting to be ushered into heaven only to learn thats not Gods purpose.

Lets read  all the verses that that describe Jesus coming supposedly to rapture,lets see if it makes sense.

(2 Thessalonians 1:7-9) . . .at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction. . .

Here we see Jesus coming from heaven ,after reading this does it sound like a blessed rapture,where in this verse do you get the idea this is something to look forward to

(Matthew 25:13) . . .“Keep on the watch, therefore, because YOU know neither the day nor the hour. . .

(Matthew 24:43-44) . . .But know one thing, that if the householder had known in what watch the thief was coming, he would have kept awake and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 On this account YOU too prove yourselves ready, because at an hour that YOU do not think to be it, the Son of man is coming. . .

(Matthew 24:39) . . .and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the coming/presence of the Son of man will be. . .

(Revelation 19:11-15) . . .And I saw the heaven opened, and, look! a white horse. And the one seated upon it is called Faithful and True, and he judges and carries on war in righteousness. 12 His eyes are a fiery flame, and upon his head are many diadems. He has a name written that no one knows but he himself, 13 and he is arrayed with an outer garment sprinkled with blood, and the name he is called is The Word of God. 14 Also, the armies that were in heaven were following him on white horses, and they were clothed in white, clean, fine linen. 15 And out of his mouth there protrudes a sharp long sword, that he may strike the nations with it, and he will shepherd them with a rod of iron. He treads too the winepress of the anger of the wrath of God. . .

All these verses depict Jesus coming and everyone sound more like vengeance and people being killed off than a blessed rapture,not one of these instances resemble a rapture,nothing is said about any rapture,you would expect if its a blessed hope like we are told it would be mentioned.

The confusion is from another dipiction of Jesus coming:

(1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with [the] Lord.. . .

Now we just read other verses where he comes and it sounds nothing like this,so either Jesus comes more than one time or this is not the same event we just read.

Jesus doesn't come more that once so thats out,so this verse is not a rapture

Some members of the congregation in Thessalonica had died so Paul encouraged the survivors to comfort one another with the resurrection hope. He reminded them that Jesus was resurrected after his death so to they who had the hope of the 144,000 would be as well,noting to do with a rapture of all believers.

Prophet  Grünbaum

Jehovah`s Witness

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