Jehovah`s Witness/Regarding liars

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Question
Hi Derrick. Why is it Jws resort to calling people liars. I first experienced this with my JW co-worker.He was trying to spread the gospel with another co-worker when he got upset that we didn't agree with him.  Later I asked if he was angry and he said yes.  Why's that I said. Because you're a liar. How so? I asked. Because you're telling people the Trinity is true.

Next example is from Sister T.
Me: ********I also asked why Stephen was addressing Jesus and got two different answers, both different from yours********

Siser T:
Again even if I believed you my answer is correct I got it from the pages of the Watchtower written by Jehovah's appointed men.  The faithful and discreet slave.

She called me a liar and she never said such a thing until I showed her her own words, then said I'm twisting things and taking them out of context.

I'm beginning to think that these people are taught these things through the watchtower publications. There was a recent article about this in the WT when my co-worker called me this and even admitted to have recently read about people spreading lies about the Trinity.

So, is it biblical to call someone a liar? Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them a liar does it?

Thanks again. Kevin

Answer
Hello Kevin, I hope your morning is going well.

Let's get right in...

You asked..."Why is it Jws resort to calling people liars."

Because they can't refute people Scripturally, so their only avenue left is to personally attack the person.  Plus, JWs view everyone on the outside with suspicion...Christians anyway.  

As the personal recipient many times of the label "liar", I believe I can testify as to why they do it.  Not because the person really IS a liar, or has lied, but because they ask questions or make statements that reveal WT doctrine to be on a faulty foundation.  The only method of defense, is to try and tarnish the image and credibility of the person.

Its what DW calls "Satanically attacking the messenger, but not the message".  Only problem is, they are the ones doing it.  I am sorry your honesty was called into question by Sister T, simply because your JW co-workers gave an answer different from hers.  See, here's the thing...JWs are SUPPOSED to be in unity, and all speak the same thing.  It is no doubt embarrassing for her to see that her answer is different from fellow Witnesses, so that just can't be, without at least INSINUATING that YOU must be the liar here, because all JWs should give the same answer.

That's what is behind that.


You wrote...."He was trying to spread the gospel with another co-worker when he got upset that we didn't agree with him.  Later I asked if he was angry and he said yes.  Why's that I said. Because you're a liar. How so? I asked. Because you're telling people the Trinity is true."


Yeah, here is another problem with their thinking.  They do not fully understand what constitutes a "lie".  There is a difference between a religious lie (a false doctrine would fall into that category), and a person who themselves has been misled by the lie.  Even if they believe the Trinity itself is a lie (it isn't, by the way), that doesn't make the person believing in it, a "liar".

Let me illustrate:  I believe the JW doctrine that Jesus rose in a non-fleshly, spirit body, is a lie, perpetuated by Satan himself.  No question about that, when we read the Scriptures.  However, I do not think that a JW who believes and teaches this, is necessarily a "liar".  They are saying what they BELIEVE in their hearts to be true, so they are not trying to deceive.  They are simply deceived by the lie themselves, and are unknowingly helping to perpetuate it.

I would never call a JW a "liar" for believing something that I know to be a doctrinal lie.  I would call them misled.  I call some JWs "liars", because they post WILLFUL false statements, designed to discredit and deceive.

So no, it is completely wrong for your co-worker to call you a "liar", because you believe something that he thinks is false.

Let me illustrate it this way:  Let's say a woman goes to her close friend, and tells her..."I'm so sorry to tell you this, but I saw your husband going out to supper with another woman".  In a moment of hurt and anger, the wife replies..."That is NOT TRUE!!  My husband is doing no such thing!!"  But later on, it comes out that the husband IS guilty of this.  Does that make the wife a liar?  Of course not.  It simply means she trusted someone who wasn't worthy of that trust.

What you got from your co-worker, is a typical reaction from a JW on the defensive.  He couldn't answer your question which had him stumped, so he attacked your character instead.


You wrote...."She called me a liar and she never said such a thing until I showed her her own words, then said I'm twisting things and taking them out of context."


You know, that is identical to the experience I had with her some weeks back.  She had made some comments to my friend, the OTHER Kevin (LOL), claiming that he was falsely accusing her of something she never said.  I personally knew she HAD said it, so I went back and found the statements and showed where she DID say it, and that her denial was false.  

What did she do?  Apologize, retract, and say..."Oh, my mistake.  I simply didn't have my facts straight, and it was an honest mistake.  I apologize"?  

Yeah, right.  Had she done that, the whole thing would have been dropped.  But instead, she attacked me for going back through the statements with such scrutiny, and basically asked if I didn't have other things to do...lol.

Its always the other guy's fault, with these people.

Again, your experiences with this particular expert, are actually quite typical of what others have experienced with her also.


You wrote...."I'm beginning to think that these people are taught these things through the watchtower publications. There was a recent article about this in the WT when my co-worker called me this and even admitted to have recently read about people spreading lies about the Trinity."


Its possible.  But whether or not the publications actually teach them this directly, there is no question that the publications are responsible for the over-all conditioned THINKING these people have, and the reactions and mannerisms they display.  And again, it is because their doctrine is on a very weak foundation, but they have been taught to think it is absolute truth and unshakeable.  When they are confronted with people who can refute it, they honestly know no other way to react, but to lash out and attack.


You wrote..."So, is it biblical to call someone a liar? Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them a liar does it?"

Well, this is actually 2 separate questions with 2 separate answers.

Answer to question #1:  Yes, it is Biblical in some cases, to call someone a liar.  WHEN THEY ARE REALLY LYING.  It is NOT Biblical to simply use this term at one's disposal, and label anyone they don't like or agree with, as such.  

Examples of Biblically using the term "liar":

Prov. 17:4
Prov. 19:22
Prov. 30:6
John 8:55
1 Tim. 1:10
Titus 1:12
1 John 2:4
1 John 2:22
1 John 4:20


Now, the answer to question #2:  No, just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't make them a liar.  Even if their belief is wrong.  Their belief may be a lie, and they may sincerely believe the false idea, without being a liar personally.  When they are definitely lying, is when they make knowingly false and slanderous statements, like what you have seen here on a regular basis.  

My practice here has always been, and will alwasy be:

1.  If accused of a lie, challenge the person repeatedly to show actual evidence of the lie, rather than making a cowardly accusation for which there is no basis.

2.  If I accuse someone else of a lie, then provide the same proof that I expect when they call me such, with documentation of an actual statement from them, which was an outright lie.

I will not call a person a liar in this forum, without giving the example.  The other guys?  They have no problem doing such.


Thanks for writing with your question, and again, I am sorry for your experience.  It seems many people such as you, have found this site with the hopes of getting some real answers to their questions, but end up being disappointed with the rudeness and accusations of the ones who are supposed to be doing the "answering".  Then they complain when those people write to me.

There are some definite mind-control issues at work in situations like these.  

If I can help you any further, please do not hesitate to write.  Thanks, and God bless.


Derrick  

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Derrick Holland

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I was raised in the religion known as Jehovah`s Witnesses for 13 years. Since becoming a born-again Christian, I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history. I can answer questions about their doctrines from the perspective of Biblical Christianity. To be clear: Jehovahs Witnesses is the religion of my upbringing, though I myself was never baptized into the religion, nor have I ever been considered as a Jehovahs Witness.

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29 years of Biblical research into the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, and how they differ from the teachings of the Watchtower.

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I would advise each questioner to this forum, to carefully READ the profiles of the various volunteers. There are several such as myself, who are not practicing JWs, but will provide you with an accurate and honest answer, regarding JW teaching. If we don't know the answer, we will try to research and get it for you. There are also some excellent practicing JWs here, who also endeavor to give you a factual and honest answer, based on their point of view. I believe by getting both points of view, the questioner can weigh the evidence for themselves, and make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are also 3 here who claim to be JWs, but do NOT give honest, or well-researched answers. They will tell you only what they want you to believe, and they often hide facts about the history of their religion, as well as print untruths about other people's beliefs. This is done in an attempt to deceive the unsuspecting reader. It can be easily seen who these 3 are, simply by reading the public posts and "answers" which they write. Their posts will normally be filled with personal attacks, and if you question them about some teaching or aspect of the Watchtower that makes them uncomfortable, they will often reject your question, question your motives for asking it, tell you that you have been reading "apostate" sites, or turn the conversation into an attack on another expert. These ones are better avoided, as there is nothing to be gained by way of positive discussion, as they are not interested in intelligent conversation, or honest dialogue. If after reading the forum, you still have any questions as to who they are, just ask me, and I will be happy to tell you. And I can also provide documentation of their willful dishonesty. One thing is for certain...in a forum where people from both sides claim to be "Christians", there should never be any willful lying. Such ones only create a distraction in the forum, and provide nothing of any real value.

Education/Credentials
High School, some college. Studies of God's Word, the Bible, and how it compares to JW theology. I have found my own personal study and experiences to be far more valuable than any formal education or training. The Bible message is clear...Salvation is ONLY through and by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and no religious organization has a thing to do with it. While attendance at a Bible-preaching, Bible-believing church is a must for spiritual growth and fellowship, no church can grant salvation to its members. Nor is joining a particular group a prerequisite for being saved.

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