Jehovah`s Witness/Romans 11
Hi Bro Grunbaum,
Please explain Romans chapter 11 since it was said that this Chapter destroys spiritual Israel's (Israel of God) existence.
It's obvious and so sad that one takes a couple of verses instead of the whole context of what is being said, it just proves all the more the lack of scriptural understanding regarding the Israel of God (Gal 6:16) and natural Israel. It's so plain as day in Romans 11 that natural Israel was rejected as a whole nation. Otherwise, verse 5 of Romans would not say this:
"In this way, therefore, at the present season also a remnant has turned up according to a choosing due to undeserved kindness"
And verse 11 there would be no need for the nations to incite the natural Jews to jealousy if they were still a chosen people.
Ro 11:11 "Therefore I ask, Did they stumble so that they fell completely? Never may that happen! But by their false step there is salvation to people of the nations, to incite them to jealousy."
In verse 21 he says they were cut off, but that probably went right over some people's heads!
Romans 11:21 "For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you"
in verse 23 it tells us if they repent he'd accept them back again, if they were never rejected, why would he have to accept them back again...
Romans 11:23 "They also, if they do not remain in their lack of faith, will be grafted in; for God is able to graft them in again."
It's a privilege to be out of the darkness!
Thanks Sister T
Greetings ,Agape' Brotherly Love my Sister T
If the truth be known these people can see what the verses say ,they can see if Judaism was still approved after the death of Jesus there wouldn't have been a need for Christianity.
I think most understand that point,what the problem is ,is New Jerusalem and how its viewed as opposed to the earthy city,they know its heavenly but since they reject Jehovah's Witnesses doctrine and New Jerusalem that represent the 144,000 spiritual brothers they are forced to still believe in earthly Jerusalem and not spiritual Israel.
Its interesting that you mentioned Romans chapter 11 because its this chapter that will determine if they will be raptured to heaven of after the end of this present system will be dead at the beginning of the 1,000 year judgement day.
Paul starts out by saying:
#Romans 11:1# 11 I ask, then, God did not reject his people, did he? . . .
Paul clearly indicated that the Old Testament promises for Israel were still to be fulfilled ,no question about that.
But the readers need to ask this question,why would the subject of rejection even come up
,who is the one actually speaking here ,a mere mortal or the omnipotent God.
Jehovah is the one speaking here and he brings up the subject of Isreal being rejected and replaced by a spiritual nation.
The verse continue:
#Romans 11:1# . . .Never may that happen! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
What did the Prophet mean by this?
Remember he asked a question
"I ask, then, God did not reject his people, did he?"
Actually this not a question in the sense that as a Prophet he doesn't have a clue to the answer,its a teaching method called a known answer question similar to a rhetorical question.
Paul is actually saying Israel is rejected posed for rhetorical effect.
Earlier Paul said this:
(Romans 9:2-5) 2 that I have great grief and unceasing pain in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were separated as the cursed one from the Christ in behalf of my brothers, my relatives according to the flesh, 4 who, as such, are Israelites, to whom belong the adoption as sons and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the sacred service and the promises; 5 to whom the forefathers belong and from whom the Christ [sprang] according to the flesh: God, who is over all, [be] blessed forever. . . .
So Paul could not have believed that the Israel as a nation still had a special place with God
so later in verse 11 text asked the question not expecting an answer.
As proof he added:
(Romans 9:6) . . .However, it is not as though the word of God had failed. For not all who [spring] from Israel are really “Israel.. . .
Why words like fail if all is well with Israel,so later he asked the text question.
"For not all who [spring] from Israel are really “Israel"
Paul is saying: that because the Jews rejected Christ, God no longer considered them to be Jerusalem it was now New Jerusalem.
Jehovah has not rejected the Jewish people as individuals ,we have brothers in Jerusalem thats why Paul continued:
(Romans 11:1) . . .For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.. . .
He made known his bonafides :
(Philippians 3:4-5) . . .If any other man thinks he has grounds for confidence in the flesh, I the more so: 5 circumcised the eighth day, out of the family stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew [born] from Hebrews; as respects law, a Pharisee ,born in Tarsus of Ci·li´cia, but educated in this city at the feet of Ga·ma´li·el, instructed according to the strictness. . .
Why did Paul say all this ,letting be known if anyone is Israel he is,its goes right back to the question again:
I ask, then, God did not reject his people, did he?"
Jewish people as an individual like Paul he couldn't have,so were talking as a nation as a whole.
For believers of Christendom to place all their hope for everlasting life in the Republic of Israel is foolhardy,to much scriptural evidence is against the earthy city,I think if a person told me to my face I hate Jesus and took my copy of the NT and angrily tore out the pages I would want anything to do with that person.
Just go to show just how dumb spiritually Church people are,they wouldn't welcome that man into their home but yet they are looking to him as the chosen of God.
no prince or prophet ,just a brother.