Jehovah`s Witness/The Drama
QUESTION: Hello again Derrick, I see the drama continues. The thing I noticed more this time is the intensified desperation from the Witnesses. It is so clear. They seem to be losing the "battles" against you and several readers. They appear to be at loss as to what to do. Their "trained" answers are not working and so they lash out. Its so sad. really. Should loving God and following his word be this difficult? I don't think so, unless the word you follow is wrong. Seems to me that defending the truth should be easy, defending a lie is when people get themselves into trouble. That is what I see here. They are now up against a wall, trying desperately to defend what has been taught to them as "the truth". Clearly, their interpretations of scriptures is off, that is why this is so hard for them. I can no longer ask or read their "answers" mostly because they are all copy and paste "trained" propaganda from the Watchtower Society, not from God. They got sucked in, and now they cannot get out. May they someday find the truth. Take Care.
ANSWER: Hello, Rita. You know, you are spot on in everything you pointed out, and it is becoming more and more obvious each day. The drama here is at its worst in years, and what happened in this forum yesterday, was nothing short of shameful and disgraceful.
On a side note, regarding some of the discussions that have taken place, on the subject of the Cross....
Let me say that I had every intention of addressing the latest posts of Eddie, regarding our cross discussion. There was so much in those that was simply inaccurate, and I was going to get my response posted to those in the next day or two. However, it has come up that Eddie wrote to me in private, and told me he was leaving the forum, due to he nonsensical drama that has happened in the forum in the past day. He also wanted to make sure that there had been no offense taken, and I assured him that there wasn't, and wished him the best. I think that is a shame he is leaving, as I believe it is good for people to see both sides of this discussion. However, since Eddie has made this decision, I do not see any point in addressing his last couple of posts. Obviously, if anyone has any questions about the issues that were raised or left hanging, then I will be happy to address them. But otherwise, I see no need to type the rebuttal that I had planned.
Now, back to the topic at hand...
Yes, the drama continues, unfortunately. And no matter what the drama is about, I always seem to get dragged into it. The sad fact of the matter is, that as long as people like DW and Rando are here, the drama will likely continue. They seem to be completely obsessed with me, as I'm sure you have noticed. I really would not give Rando 5 minutes of my evenings, except that he's always lying about me, and I have to take the time to set the record straight. And here lately, its just the same old lies repeated, over and over and over.
You will see the lies and attacks get worse and worse, as you pointed out. And Rita, you are absolutely correct, that they are doing it because they are "at a loss". I'm not sure why they think that lying about me, is going to make me cower in a corner, and run screaming out of this forum. I mean, it hasn't worked yet.
Do you ever wonder why they don't just TAKE A BIBLE, if they think my doctrine is wrong, and SHOW FROM THE BIBLE WHY it is in error? Why do you think they attack and lie? Well, the reason is obvious....Because, like you said, their "trained answers" simply do not work, and they have nothing left, so they lash out. You see it, and anyone with an ounce of intelligence sees it.
The truth is, Rita, that Rando is in "desperate damage control" mode now. He has been thoroughly exposed for what he is. You can expect his attacks to get worse, although completely repetitive and redundant.
I sat back and let him repeat the same lies over and over, for several weeks. I knew that nobody was buying it anyway, and Rando really presents no threat at all. But when he continued with the "Derrick Holland teaches", and "Derrick Holland said" falsehoods, I just decided to call his bluff. That was when I wrote directly to him, outlining the quotes of the things he was claiming I had said, and asked him to produce the links to the quotes. He predictably started rejecting the questions, but in one answer he implied that he wouldn't produce the quotes, because he was "being silent like Jesus"...LOL. Of course, you saw all that anyway, but it showed Rando for what he is....When he was called out and directly challenged, he had NOTHING. He still doesn't, he never has, and he never will.
So now, as you said, they (especially him) are getting more and more desperate, and it is VERY clear.
Rita, did you see just HOW desperate that Rando got in today's forum? I mean, this was a new low, even for Rando....Writing a letter to himself, claiming to be a member of the SBC (SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION), saying they do not approve of me, and were trying to have me kicked out.
Rita, I nearly laughed myself sick, on that one. Do you mind if I take a few moments, and just blow this one out of the water? First of all, this letter was clearly bogus, and there are several things that make this very clear....
First of all, a SBC member would not write a letter to the Convention to have someone kicked out, because they join a forum on the internet, and preach the Gospel to Jehovah's Witnesses, and provide Scriptural answers to questioners. Southern Baptists believe the JW religion is a cult, and that they need to hear the Gospel of Christ. So, that in and of itself, gave it away as a fake, and something from Rando himself.
But there's more...
Secondly, the fake SBC member (Rando) didn't bother to handle anything the Scriptural way, by writing to me directly, before writing to Rando and the SBC (Matthew 18:15-17).
A true brother in Christ, would have followed the Scriptural method. But Rando never does...that's how I know it was him, aside from the fact that it has his fingerprints all over it.
Third, no Bible-believing SBC member would have written and acknowledged Rando's message as "Christian", by pronouncing "Christian love" to his witness about Christ. Every Baptist who knows an ounce of their Bible, knows the JW "witness about Christ" is different than the Bible's witness about Him. Any so-called Southern Baptist who believes that Rando is "witnessing for the Christ" of the Bible, who is not Michael the Archangel, himself would be a candidate for excommunication.
Fourth, no intelligent or honest person, Baptist or otherwise, would write Rando and condone his dishonesty and slander against the BAPTIST beliefs, as he has been doing over the past several weeks.
Fifth, this statement was also bogus..."He has even received urgings from his own brethren to get off the JW Forum and move to the Critics Section but has reused."
Now, I know that I have had literally hundreds of my brethren, who THANKED me for being here and giving Biblical answers while being viciously attacked, and I know that I have had JWs and JW sympathizers, who didn't like my being here....But I certainly don't recall any "brethren" writing me with such advice. Sure wish Rando, the Southern Baptist, would refresh my memory on that one. In the outside chance that the person wasn't Rando, maybe they will do what Rando never does...provide a quote. But never mind...it is Rando.
Sixth, no Southern Baptist would have said this..."He causes "dissensions," even among our own religion and deserves to be excommunicated. I'm just horrified by this man's actions.
"I complained to All Experts about him and sent a letter to the SBC to have him removed from our Religion."
You know, Rita, I honestly laughed out loud in the break room at work (at the job Rando doesn't think I am honest on), when I read where he was posing as this Southern Baptist, and claimed he had written a LETTER to the Convention, to have me "removed", and that I "cause dissensions" in the SBC religion.
Rita, do you know WHY I laughed at this? Because, here's the kicker... I am NOT even a Southern Baptist!! LOL!
Now, nothing against my dear Southern Baptist brethren, but it just so happens the church I attend and am ordained as a minister in, is an INDEPENDENT MISSIONARY BAPTIST, and we have no affiliation or ties with the SBC. Again, nothing against Southern Baptists, but I just don't happen to be one.
So, what we have here, is Rando lying again, and Rando looking STUPID...again.
But let's just be honest here...There is a reason why Rando posed as a Southern Baptist, and attempted to make me think my status was in jeopardy. Because RANDO himself is always looking over his own shoulder, worried about his own religion finding out who he is, and disciplining him for his lies.
In Rando's answer to himself in the above link, you can see an extreme paranoia and fear, that I am going to his superiors about him. Even though he has remained anonymous, he has lied so much, it is worrying the life out of him that he is going to get caught. Rando's pattern has become quite predictable....When I write and expose him for something, he will generally try to come back and turn it back on me, in the same area. This was simply another example.
And another thing about his fake letter that I would like to mention, is how he posed as a Southern Baptist, and actually TWISTED the issue here. So, let me just set him straight on this, as well.
He wrote..."Bro Rando, you have the right to be on a JW Forum and defend your faith, even though this unchristian man Derrick complains about you defending it."
This is #7, in the list of things that no true Bible-believing Southern Baptist would say. First off, they would not lie, and claim that I "complain about him defending his faith". So, let's just address this lie of Rando's. Actually, its a two-fold lie...
First, this is not a JW forum. Why that has to be said over and over, is a mystery. Its a forum ABOUT Jehovah's Witnesses, and to get information ABOUT their beliefs. It is NOT run or controlled by JWs. Never has been.
Secondly, I have stated several times, that JWs have every right to be here, and defend their faith. Never said they didn't. In fact, this lie must be very embarrassing for Rando, in that I myself stated in one of my posts today, on the SAME day that this lying post of Rando's appeared in the forum, that the JW side should be heard and defended.
I am the one who believes both perspectives have a place here. They do not. They wish to deny the questioners, the right to hear both sides of the discussion. They have something to hide, and are threatened by non-JWs being here. On the other hand, I do not fear them, and have nothing to hide. That is why I use my REAL name. Therefore, I have no problem with JWs being here, to defend their side. That is what they should do.
I DO have a problem with people like Rando, who do not defend, but LIE. Liars and slanderers should not be here. When people lie about non-Witnesses, they are not qualified to be here. When a Witness slanders a FELLOW Witness, like DW did to Mr. Grunbaum yesterday, HE is unqualified and unfit to be here.
If Rando merely wanted to defend his religion with the BIBLE, which is TRUTH, then I would have no problem with it. But Rando couldn't defend anything with the Scriptures, so he lies and slanders instead. That should NOT be allowed here. He has every right to counter anything I say, if he does it honestly, and with Scripture. He does NOT have the right to lie and attack my character, which he knows nothing about.
Any thinking Southern Baptist would have known the difference between the two, and would not have written something that foolish. That's how I know its Rando...He should have changed the writing style a little bit better.
Rita, you said..."The thing I noticed more this time is the intensified desperation from the Witnesses. It is so clear. They seem to be losing the "battles" against you and several readers. They appear to be at loss as to what to do. Their "trained" answers are not working and so they lash out. Its so sad. really."
Yes, it certainly is sad. I know that I do laugh at Rando's stupidity sometimes, but the truth is, it is truly sad that a human being will stoop so low, and place his own spiritual welfare in danger, all out of desperation.
And yes, myself and the other readers, do seem to bring out this desperation in them. It goes back to what you said before...They have certain trained answers, and when you get them off of that script, then they don't know what to do.
"Should loving God and following his word be this difficult? I don't think so, unless the word you follow is wrong."
No, it certainly should not be. If there is ANYTHING a Christian should be, its HONEST. If a person cannot even grasp the basic Scriptures about honesty, then they really aren't qualified to teach anything else.
Rita, do you know that I have also written to Rando, just giving him Scriptures about telling the truth, and asked him if he could explain what they mean, and he wouldn't even answer that? Why would anybody refuse to answer Scriptures about telling the truth, unless they are aren't telling the truth?
Isn't that just a basic requirement, if we love God and want to serve Him...to be honest?
"Seems to me that defending the truth should be easy, defending a lie is when people get themselves into trouble. That is what I see here."
Right again. That is why you see all the contradictions...DW contradicting Rando, Rando contradicting himself, etc. A liar always forgets what lies he has been telling, and when he goes to tell another one, he ends up contradicting a previous one. You have seen several examples of this, already. We had another one yesterday....DW said yesterday that I admit outright, that I am not a member of the JW religion, which is true. But his best friend in the forum, Rando, had just told people the other week, that I "want people to think" that I am a JW.
See what idiots they make of themselves, when they can't get their stories straight? Its shameful. Christians should just TELL the TRUTH.
"They are now up against a wall, trying desperately to defend what has been taught to them as "the truth". Clearly, their interpretations of scriptures is off, that is why this is so hard for them. I can no longer ask or read their "answers" mostly because they are all copy and paste "trained" propaganda from the Watchtower Society, not from God. They got sucked in, and now they cannot get out. May they someday find the truth.
Yes, may they one day find the truth. There is no doubt in my mind that many of them are brainwashed. A thinking person in their normal mental capacity, could not engage in such shameful conduct, without something deep on the inside, telling them it is wrong. But these people can somehow do it, and convince themselves that they are doing God a service. But something inside should be making them think..."This CAN'T be what God wants me to be doing. The Bible speaks against this type of behavior."
That is the reason that nobody will ever convince me, that their thinking capacity has not been altered in some way. How can a person do something the Bible clearly condemns, and then believe that it is pleasing to God?
Rita, as always, you comments are very insightful and appreciated. Its nice to see that others also know what is really behind all of this drama. Seems like a lot of people don't want to say what they know is the truth, and I am glad that you pointed out your observations. I was wondering what had happened to you, as I hadn't heard from you in awhile.
Anyway, thanks for writing, and God bless you and yours.
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: It is very evident that anyone who is not a Jehovah Witness on this site threatens them greatly (especially you). They have no control when someone else is there to challenge what they said. They would much prefer to be asked a question, give their WS "trained" answer, and have the reader accept that as the "truth". Problem is, its not the truth. Far from it. Unfortunately, for the Witnesses, most people are not as gullible as a Jw so their so called "answers" really just lead to more questions. Like I have said before, it never ceases to amaze me how these people (JW's) just accept an answer from the WS as the truth. The fact they needed their own Bible should be a red flag to them, but it isn't. They have a excuse for that one too. Lots of excuses for all that has been proven wrong. Truthfully, I think deep down they have doubts when they are proven wrong, but what can they do???? Do they even question why there are more experts who ARE NOT Witnesses than actual Witnesses on the site???? I don't even want to know the answer to that....I am sure it would have something to do with an "agenda". Hmmm, desperation, paranoia, anger, rudeness...doesnt sound like qualities of people who have any kind of "truth" to me. Take Care Derrick.
There is no question at all that they view me, and any non-JW who knows the Bible, as a HUGE threat. You saw it in DW's own words....I am a "very evil demon worshipping a zombie"...LOL. Rita, do I strike you as a demon, who worships zombies?
These people are truly scraping the bottom of the barrel, in a vain attempt to discredit me any way they can. Rita, I have no doubt in my mind, these people themselves are the ones controlled by demons. They honestly cannot tell the truth if they tried...Every single post they write, contains lies.
Did you see this one today, under DW's? He wrote...
"Yesterday on a Jehovah's witness forum he was directing people to come here and ask question's to non-witnesses.
If Derrick's motive's where pure and he was here for the reason he should be here "to teach other's about Jehovah's witnesses, belief's" why would he direct them to non-witnesses?? Why not witnesses also??
Now, either this man is INCREDIBLY stupid and can't read, or (and perhaps both), he is under the control of demons and simply CANNOT write the truth.
What you are looking at in the quote above, are some of the stupidest comments you will ever see. He asks why I did not direct questioners to "Witnesses also"
Uhm, I did. I believe I actually gave them FIVE Witnesses to ask their questions to, if they wanted a JW perspective, without being berated or insulted. I directed the questioners to: Brenton Hepburn (whom DW ALSO affirms as a Witness), Elbert Spears (a JW), and D. DeLaurentos (a JW, but on extended vacation). I then went on to list 2 JW women...Carol Massey, and Pam B, as other viable options.
And this idiot asks why I didn't direct them to Witnesses....Again, either incurably dense, or possessed by lying spirits. The readers can decide which, or both.
He then wants to know why I directed questioners to NON-WITNESSES. I believe I made that clear, also. There are several different reasons WHY people come to this forum...Some want a JW perspective, and some don't.
I broke it up into categories...If a person wants a CHRISTIAN and BIBLICAL, NON-Witness perspective, then OF COURSE I would direct them to a non-Witness. Why would I direct them to a Witness, for a NON-Witness perspective? Zeesh!
If they want answers about congregational procedures, then I directed them to the person best qualified in that regard...Mr. Robert Jones.
And if they wanted only a JW perspective, I directed them to the 5 JWs most likely to give them a GOOD and polite answer.
And this nut asks "Why not Witnesses also"?
Rita, what is wrong with these people? Is there even an explanation that would begin to explain this level of stupidity?
Now, if DW wants to know why I didn't recommend the Witnesses from HIS "approved list", its because his list means nothing to me. His list contains 3 liars, and one other JW, whom I DID recommend.
What DW doesn't grasp, is that its more than just "knowledge" of the religion, that is important. "Knowledge" is only ONE of the factors. Perhaps DW, like Mr. Robert Jones, also knows about congregational procedures. But there is no way that I am going to direct questioners to DW, because DW is a liar, and VERY immature. Let me explain...
Let's take DW's means of making a living, for instance. I happen to know that DW is a roof tiler. Now, DW may be the greatest roof tiler in all of London. He may know more about it, than any other roof tiler in the UK. He may have written THE BOOK on roof tiling. However, if I happen to find out that DW is working on people's roofs, and then if they leave and go to the store, that he then sneaks into their house and takes their possessions, then do you think I am going to recommend him for anyone wanting a good roof tiler? What if he enters their garage when they aren't looking, and takes things...tools, lawn mowers, etc?
No, while he may know about roof tiling, I am not going to recommend a crook or a liar to anyone. And DW is a liar...just like we saw in the quote above.
Not gonna happen.
And Rita, you are right about them "having no control". And THAT is the thing that bugs them the most....People like DW are used to barking out orders to the sheeple in the Kingdom Hall, and having them put him on a pedestal. He came here trying it with me, and I just laughed at him, told him I don't take orders from him, and asked him to do something about it. He came unglued...Showed his true colors.
And I still can't help but notice that he wants to keep hiding behind his alias, while setting himself up on the throne, as the judge of everyone else here, and whether they are "genuine" Witnesses, or not. Tell me...How would he KNOW who is a real Witness, and who isn't? One Witness just left the board over this...This man's actions are disgraceful.
But you know the funniest part of all? He wants to know WHY I didn't recommend Witnesses (although I did), but HE HIMSELF has stated that even HE may not be a REAL Witness, even after listing himself as one of the 4 "genuine" Witnesses. Yep, he turned right around and said that he HIMSELF might not be. I quote...
DW (about himself)"You do not need to be here speaking to me you do not who I am. I could be a rock hidden under the surface myself!!
DW (again, about himself)"How do you know I'm not an apostate?? How do you know who I am?? Maybe I'm trying to befriend you with smooth words.
How do you know??
The reality is you don't know and you don't need to know.You don't need to be here talking to me.
He says all that about himself, and thinks I'M supposed to recommend him????
I mean, good grief....he's even got ME scared that he's an apostate!! LOL!
Rita, what is wrong with these people? How do people get so warped in their brains?
Rita, you said..."They would much prefer to be asked a question, give their WS "trained" answer, and have the reader accept that as the "truth".
Yes, and they even have a name for those who do NOT just accept what they say...."Goat". Isn't that sweet? You see, these people actually think that everything that the WT says, is "truth". And anything different from that, is automatically a lie.
Let me give you another gem from DW. This one comes from a good while back. He wrote...
"Now here's the truth every Bible teaching by the faithful slave is the correct one until the time they tell you otherwise."
Now, let that ridiculous statement sink in for a moment, and see if that doesn't line right up with what you are saying.
Now, think about that one. First, it implies that the "Slave" determines truth, and not the Scriptures. What is "truth" today, may NOT be "truth" tomorrow, all because the "Slave" says so. But NOTICE that he says "Every BIBLE teaching"
is the "truth", until the "Slave" tells us otherwise.
WHAT?? You mean the "Slave" can tell us a BIBLE TEACHING is no longer "truth"??
Now, you read that and tell me if that isn't what he is saying.
But you are exactly correct....Whatever they TELL you, you are to accept it as "truth".
You wrote..."Unfortunately, for the Witnesses, most people are not as gullible as a Jw so their so called "answers" really just lead to more questions. Like I have said before, it never ceases to amaze me how these people (JW's) just accept an answer from the WS as the truth. The fact they needed their own Bible should be a red flag to them, but it isn't."
Yes, it is true that they have their own "bible". But Rita, did you know that they just got ANOTHER one? Yes, the NWT has now been "revised", and made its appearance at the Annual Meeting just a few weeks back. So now, they have a "revision" of an already bad translation. Handy, huh?
You said..."Truthfully, I think deep down they have doubts when they are proven wrong, but what can they do????
I believe this, too. And that is why it is worth it to me, to just "keep on keepin' on." If Rando and DW, and the other detractors, only knew how little their lies affect me, they wouldn't even waste their breath. Because there ARE people who had doubts, and see through the lies, but are afraid. But they are seeking the truth, and they need someone to be here to give it to them.
And make no mistake...These guys know it too. That is why they are so afraid, and insecure. There is so much information out there now about this religion, things that have been hidden and things they WANT to KEEP hidden, that they are losing some of their control. And that is why you see what you are seeing.
You wrote..."Do they even question why there are more experts who ARE NOT Witnesses than actual Witnesses on the site???? I don't even want to know the answer to that....I am sure it would have something to do with an "agenda".
Yes, it would have to do with "agenda". It would be to the effect of there being "vipers" here, and Satan really stepping up the deception as the time gets shorter...something like that. But actually, its just because people love the Jehovah's Witnesses, and want to help them see the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. At least that's my desire.
"Hmmm, desperation, paranoia, anger, rudeness...doesnt sound like qualities of people who have any kind of "truth" to me."
Nope, me either. Along these lines, be sure to follow DW's new series on the "Ways That Derrick Holland is Like Satan". I can hardly wait, myself. DW loves Genesis chapter 3 so much, probably because he sees himself in it. But it should be interesting, and should display more of the desperation, paranoia, anger, rudeness, attacks, lies, and slander, that we have all come to look for from these guys.
Have a great evening, Rita. Blessings be to you and your family.