Jehovah`s Witness/Praying in Jesus' name
Doxo63 wrote at 2013-12-18 08:56:15
When you stated that:
“The book of Revelation reveals that ultimately God will receive 144,000 immortals into his realm.”
You obviously believe 144,000 is a literal number.
Rev 14:1 says: “Then I saw, and look! the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who have his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads.”
So is Jesus literally a Lamb or does he represent the ultimate sacrificial Lamb of Passover – John 1:29, Rev 5:6 Rev 22:3? Do they have the names literally written on their foreheads or is this also metaphorical? Rev 3:12, 2Cor 1:22.
Of course the answer is that these visions are metaphorical with deeper meanings, doesn’t it also follow that the number 144,000 would be the same?
Rev 14 says: “And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000 sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel”
“These are the ones who did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins”
So again, if the number is literal then the 144,000 must literally be male Jewish virgins right? If not why would the verse veer from literal to metaphorical? Would God send us such mixed messages to confuse us? You can’t just flip-flop from one to the other without any logical explanation.
It is far more evident that the number 144,000 is to do with God’s utilization of numbers throughout the scriptures, particularly because it relates to taking 12,000 out of each of the 12 tribes of Israel Rev 7:4-8
The number 12 is highly significant in the bible, representing perfection of government or leadership.
Also, as you translate the bible so literally, I’d like to ask about the great crowd. If they are to remain on earth why does it say in rev 7:16: “They will hunger no more nor thirst anymore, neither will the sun beat down on them nor any scorching heat”
The Sun won’t beat down on them? Where did it go, can the earth literally survive without it?
the one who knows all wrote at 2014-01-27 03:27:58
Jws are not dogmatic about the number 144000 but they do fell that the number is literal This is what is published.
"the contrast that John draws between verses 4 and 9 of Revelation chapter 7. He states that the first group, “those who were sealed,” has a definite number. However, the second group, “a great crowd,” is without a definite number. With that in mind, it is logical to take the number 144,000 to be literal. If the number 144,000 were symbolic and referred to a group that is actually numberless, the force of the contrast between those two verses would be lost. Thus, THE CONTEXT STRONGLY INDICATES that the number 144,000 must be taken literally." *** w04 9/1 p. 30 Questions From Readers ***
When Revelation says " 7:16: “They will hunger no more nor thirst anymore, neither will the sun beat down on them nor any scorching heat” ' The hunger and thirst no more is understood to be referring to spiritual hunger and thirst (Matt 5:3 "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.")
The scorching heat refers divine anger. Because they are now safe from Gods anger that is to come upon all those that apose him