Jehovah`s Witness/God's name

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Question
Derrick,

I thought you might like to see my last response to Rando's 'question' about Baptist's Secrets since he chose not to make it public but responded with his standard "You are welcome" which he uses when he can't come up with an answer.  I won't show the entire dialogue because it is already posted (Baptist's Secrets 10/9/13)
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Rando stated: IN regards to your statement, "Have you read Exodus 3: 13-15?"  Yes, but it was Jehovah's Angel talking face to face to Moses not God. (Exodus 3:2)And the angel of Jehovah appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

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---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Rando,

What's the most important thing here, the 'messenger' or the message?  And the message was... my name is I AM THAT I AM.  Forever.  "THEN GOD (not God's angel) said once more to Moses. THIS IS MY NAME to time indefinite, and this is the memorial of me to generation after generation. ~ NWT  Do you choose to disregard that and concentrate on the messenger?

Additionally, in verse 3:4  GOD (not God's angel) called to Moses and said "Moses! Moses!"  Then in verse 5 GOD told Moses to take off his sandals because he was standing on holy ground.  Angels are not holy, but celestial.  So an angels presence would not have made the ground holy.  In verse 6 GOD went on to say I am the God of your father.... Then Moses concealed his face because he was afraid to look at the [true] God.  Moses recognized he was speaking not to an angel, but to God.

Then verses 7 to 10 speaks of Jehovah (not an angel) continuing  to speak to Moses.  In verse 11 Moses speaks to GOD again (not an angel).  Verse 12 GOD speaks.  Verse 13 Moses speaks to the [true] GOD.   IN verse 14 GOD (not an angel) speaks to Moses.  Chapters 3 & 4 are a dialogue between GOD and Moses.  Not an angel and Moses.  So God made himself manifest (revealed himself) to Moses and spoke to him all thru Chapters 3 & 4.  

 Since God is an invisible spirit, he spoke to those in the Old Testament by way of his voice, in dreams & in theophanies.  A theophany is a divine manifestation.  A manifestation is a form in which a divine being is revealed.  So if God chose to reveal himself in the form of a burning bush... it was still God speaking.  If he chose to manifest (reveal) himself in the form of an angel, it was still God speaking.  If, as you say it was not God, but God's angel, wouldn't you think an angel of God would say EXACTLY what God sent him to say?  And what he came to say was directly from God and of great importance?  

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Your scripture references:

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning the end, saith the Lord (Jesus Christ)  (Red Letter bibles attribute this verse to Jesus.) (And what does this have to do with the original topic God's name?)   
Rev. 1:17 ...Do not be fearful.  ~ 18 I am the First and the Last, the living one and I became dead, but look! I am living forever and ever. (Red Letter Bibles also attribute to this to Jesus.)  The only way this could be God speaking is if he died (I became dead).  (And again, it says nothing about the original topic:  God's name)
~ Isaiah 44:6 God is saying he is the first & last.  
~ Rev 22: 13 Jesus said I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.  (Again, nothing here about God's name being Jehovah, but isn't it interesting that both God & Jesus said the same thing about themselves?   

So the Rev. 1: 8 & 17 scriptures are Jesus speaking.  Then Isaiah 44:6 and Rev. 22:13 amazingly say both God & Jesus are the beginning & the end.  

Exodus 6:3 is the only scripture you have given which is on topic... God's name.  And it says Abraham, Isaac and Jacob did not know God by the name Jehovah.  "...and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them."

Nor did God tell Moses he wanted to be known as Jehovah.  Instead, He told him his name was to FOREVER be I AM THAT I AM.

~~~~~ Am I saying Jesus never revealed His Father's Name?  Scripture says he did, but it doesn't say what that name is, does it? He did refer to him as Father & he taught us to pray to 'Our Father'.

And since you like to put links on here... this is one for you.  I just came across it today:   http://www.voiceofjesus.org/hallowedname.html

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Derrick, sometimes the only way to get a follow-up to Rando made public is to have someone else post it.  Otherwise, he makes it appear he was correct since he (seemingly) had the last word.  

Regards,
Jay

Answer
Hello, Jay, and thank you for writing about this topic.

Yes, it is unfortunate, but you are absolutely correct about Rando rejecting questions so that he can appear to have had the last word.  The guy simply is not very honest, and for that reason, I want you to know that you are free to send me ANY rejection that you get from him.  His usual manner is to reject questions that expose him, as you have been seeing under my posts for the past few days.

Not only that, but you are spot on about his mannerisms and tactics, as well.  If you think Rando is ever going to give a straight answer to the question you asked, you might as well forget it.  He simply doesn't do that.  Trying to get Rando pinned down and give a straight answer to anything, is about like trying to eat Jello-O with chopsticks.  It ain't gonna happen.  

I have noticed that, with Rando, the answer to EVERY question is to bash the Trinity...no matter what the question is.  

</b>QUESTION:</b>  "Rando, could you please give a quote and a link to the statement you claim that I made?"</b?

<b>ANSWER:
 "The Trinity is not Biblical"

QUESTION:  "Rando, why are you telling falsehoods that you have no evidence for?"

ANSWER:  "There is no three in one in the Scriptures"

See what I mean?  The guy is being controlled by something weird and evil...no question about it.  He lies, and wants to do nothing but attack God's inspired Word, and God's nature.  What else would make a person so obsessed with doing that, to the point they are not afraid to lie?

Jay, it is interesting that you wrote about God's name, and also about Rando rejecting questions, because it just so happens that he has rejected SEVERAL of mine this week, one of which I made some pointed comments to him about honoring the name "Jehovah".  I guess he didn't like what I pointed out to him, and because his actions were clearly out of line with what honors Jehovah, he chose to reject it.

The comments I am talking about, came in my follow-up to the answer where he used JESUS CHRIST as his excuse for "being silent" when I challenged him for links and quotes from me, where I supposedly made several outlandish statements that he falsely claimed I made.  Of course, the entire reading audience now knows that he has NO QUOTES, and that is the reason for his silence and his rejecting the questions.

He basically said he was being "silent" because Jesus was "silent".  If that isn't laughable.  I notice he gave a WRONG link to one of the comments a few weeks back, by quoting an ARTICLE that I didn't even write, instead of actually quoting ME, in an effort to prove his claims about what he lied and claims that I said.  

Wonder why he wasn't "silent like Jesus" when he gave a FALSE link, and why he wasn't "silent like Jesus" when he has been lying and making up FALSE quotes, but now all of a sudden, he only wants to be "silent like Jesus" when he is challenged to provide a REAL quote that he doesn't have....LOL.  What a nut this guy is.

Anyway, regarding honoring the name of Jehovah which he CLAIMS to love and represent, I wrote him the following in a follow-up that he rejected.  

He had asked me..."How come you continue to delete God's Name out of the scripture?? Who would delete God's Holy and Divine Name from Scripture?

To which I responded....

“I don't delete God's name. I honor it with my life far more than you do. The real question is…

How come YOU defame and blaspheme His name, by lying, something He has said numerous times that He detests, and will destroy those who do it?

Honoring Jehovah's name isn't just in saying it, Rando...Its in doing what He commands. You use the name for your own evil purposes, and you defame it, by your disobedience. You don't have any respect for that name, Rando. If you did, you would obey Him.

Well, Rando didn't like that, and he OBVIOUSLY couldn't very well reply to that, so he decided to try and keep it out of view, like you said.  

Then, he simply proceeds right on dishonoring Jehovah's name, by lying some more.  I sort of laughed when I read this comment from him....

“This is why Derrick Holland is on a rampage writing himself attacking and slandering me, he's being EXPOSED as an Apostate of Christ claiming Jesus is "another almighty god" in (Rev 1:8).”

This is what happens when demons control someone's thinking.  They think they can lie, produce no proof or evidence for their lies, and then imply that Jesus did the same thing and was "silent", and then tell the person that they lie about, that that person is "defaming" them for exposing their falsehoods.  Its hilarious.

Notice how much he writes himself, and then claims that I do it?  Only thing...he neglected to tell you that the writings I posted to myself, were first sent to, and rejected, by him.  See how honest he is?  He had every chance to answer them, and to provide the quotes.  Instead, he claims "Jesus was silent so I will be, too", because he knows he's looking foolish right now, and has been exposed.  And then he repeats his lie, yet AGAIN, that I teach "another Almighty God"...one of the lies he tells constantly, but fails to provide any statements from me, to that effect.

He's a liar....plain and simple.  

But since they want to talk about God's name, let's just talk about a few things.  Since they keep raising this topic as a diversion, let's just address it.

First and foremost, its just like I told Rando....These people think they are "honoring Jehovah's name" by saying it all the time.  By repeating it over and over.  But they must not realize that there is MUCH more to it, than that.  In fact, they need to make sure they aren't taking His name in vain, according the commandment in Exodus 20.  

Just as there is more than one way to HONOR Jehovah's name, there is also more than one way to blaspheme it.  The most common way that we think of, is to use it as a curse word.  But another way, is to CLAIM to represent it, and yet WILLFULLY and CONTINUALLY do things that Jehovah hates, and has commanded NOT to do.  When a person knows Jehovah's commands, claims to represent Him, yet refuses to obey His commands and do as He says, they are taking His name in vain by their very actions.  

In other words, Rando and Eddie look quite ridiculous talking about how great Jehovah's name is, yet refusing to honor it with basic honesty and integrity.  Like you said, they USE His name, either as a good luck charm, or a means to make themselves appear spiritual, rather than simply honor it by their obedience.

Jay, I wonder which Jehovah is the most pleased with....Someone who uses and repeats the name over and over, but lies through their teeth...or, someone who may not say it to the same extent, but strives to honor it by their lives, and obedience to His Word?

Secondly, I've noticed that JWs have this strange idea of differentiating between names and titles.  We are chastened for saying "Lord", "God", "Alpha/Omega", etc.  We are told these are not "names", but "titles".  Then, the JW will arrogantly proclaim that he knows the true "name" of God, but when pressed, will have to admit that he has no earthly idea if it was really pronounced "Jehovah" or not.  Yet, you are not a follower of God, if you don't say it all the time over and over.

Jay, would the JWs here say this next verse contains "titles", or "names"?

Isaiah 9:6-  "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

The JWs would likely say these are not names, but titles.  But the verse PLAINLY says "His NAME shall be called..." .  Oh well, so much for that.

And you are correct...the Alpha and Omega comparisons between the Father, and Jesus, are some of the greatest proofs in the Bible, about Jesus sharing the same nature of God, as His Father.  There is simply no way to wiggle out of that one.  The Father is the Alpha and Omega, and so is Jesus...proving they have the same nature.

Now, let me be clear....I saw where Rando, Jr..aka..Eddie, made another one of his ludicrous and false comments, when he said..."the wolves are now foaming in the mouth" , over the name "Jehovah".  What a ridiculous and dense comment.  Nothing could be more foolish.  I am not someone who ever criticizes anyone for using the name "Jehovah".  I don't believe I have ever made one statement against anyone, for using the name "Jehovah".  I was talking to my church this morning about the name "Jehovah", and how that is one of the names in the Bible used for God, although it never seems to dawn on them that it was a covenant name between Him and ISRAEL.  

His comment was just another example of their need to lie and slander, when they are getting shown up or exposed for dishonesty.  Always trying to turn the tables, instead of growing up and taking responsibility for their OWN actions.  Like its MY fault that Rando lies, and can't back any of it up....I mean, really!

Furthermore, I put the name "Jehovah" in my own answers a great deal.  That doesn't bother me in the least.  I have no problem with a person using that name, praying to Jehovah, or speaking of His name.  I DO have a problem with them dishonoring that name with their lies, while claiming to be "the only true Christians walking the earth".

I also have a problem with them teaching that a person must use that name when they pray, in order for that prayer to be heard by, or directed to, God.  Funny, Jesus was ASKED by His disciples to TEACH them the proper way to pray, in Luke 11:1-4.  What a PERFECT and IDEAL time to stress the importance of this.  You would just think that Jesus would have made this clear from the very outset....after all, He was ASKED "how to pray".  

But Jesus told them to address Him as "Our Father".  Now, how can they possibly be critical of ANYONE, who follows the pattern that Jesus Himself gave on how to pray?  Do they have an example of Jesus, Paul, Peter, or any other disciple, saying that we must use the name "Jehovah" in prayer?  

I know this much, Jay....When I was growing up, I didn't address my dad by his first name.  I still don't.  A son calls his dad "daddy", "father", or something similar to that.  Now again, I believe it is okay to pray to God as "Jehovah", because I don't see our loving Father sitting up in Heaven with a scowl on His face, and with His arms crossed, and saying..."NO!  I will NOT hear your prayer, until you call Me by My real name!!!"

Can you imagine?  If He did that, He might also demand that we not only call Him that, but that we pronounce it CORRECTLY.  Uh, oh.

While JWs have been duped into thinking that using the name "Jehovah" makes them more spiritual than the rest of the population, it actually shows that they do not understand the relationship that He wants to have with them, as their FATHER, and them being His CHILDREN.  Calling Him "Father" is much more intimate, than calling Him by His first name.  Maybe that's why we are told to pray that way?

Another issue....Why is it that there is even a DEBATE/DISCUSSION on the correct pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton?  Why is it that, even JWs, will acknowledge that the Tetragrammaton was likely NOT pronounced as "Jehovah"?  Because for whatever reason, Jehovah God did not see fit to PRESERVE the correct pronunciation.  If knowing and using the name was vital for our salvation, doesn't it seem odd that He didn't preserve it?  He preserved His Word...why not His name?  

So, they can talk all they want to about the "Divine Name being restored", but they don't even know what the actual Divine Name was. And that is the very reason, that I do not have a problem with them saying "Jehovah" or "Yahweh".  It is our trust in Christ, and our desire to please our Heavenly Father, that He is looking for.

Its like you said, Jay...Which is more important...the Messenger, or the Message?  Rando sure did get that one confused, I'm afraid.  

Actually, "I Am" is a valid name of God.  It means the "Self-Existent One".  The One Who exists, from time and eternity, all by Himself.  Nobody made Him, created Him, or will cause His existence to cease.  He transcends all time and eternity.  And to me, its the honor of honors, to call Him my "Father".

Well, this is getting sort of long, so I will stop for now.  There is so much more that could be said on this.  But Jay, please feel free to send to me any rejection that this clown gives you.  Everyone is seeing how he operates....underhanded, and dishonestly.  Please do not hesitate to let people know how he does.  He signed up here to answer questions....he needs to start answering questions, and stop his lying and slandering.

Take care, Jay, and God bless.  I will get you a reply to your other question sometime tomorrow evening.


Derrick  

Jehovah`s Witness

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Derrick Holland

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I was raised in the religion known as Jehovah`s Witnesses for 13 years. Since becoming a born-again Christian, I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history. I can answer questions about their doctrines from the perspective of Biblical Christianity. To be clear: Jehovahs Witnesses is the religion of my upbringing, though I myself was never baptized into the religion, nor have I ever been considered as a Jehovahs Witness.

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29 years of Biblical research into the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, and how they differ from the teachings of the Watchtower.

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I would advise each questioner to this forum, to carefully READ the profiles of the various volunteers. There are several such as myself, who are not practicing JWs, but will provide you with an accurate and honest answer, regarding JW teaching. If we don't know the answer, we will try to research and get it for you. There are also some excellent practicing JWs here, who also endeavor to give you a factual and honest answer, based on their point of view. I believe by getting both points of view, the questioner can weigh the evidence for themselves, and make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are also 3 here who claim to be JWs, but do NOT give honest, or well-researched answers. They will tell you only what they want you to believe, and they often hide facts about the history of their religion, as well as print untruths about other people's beliefs. This is done in an attempt to deceive the unsuspecting reader. It can be easily seen who these 3 are, simply by reading the public posts and "answers" which they write. Their posts will normally be filled with personal attacks, and if you question them about some teaching or aspect of the Watchtower that makes them uncomfortable, they will often reject your question, question your motives for asking it, tell you that you have been reading "apostate" sites, or turn the conversation into an attack on another expert. These ones are better avoided, as there is nothing to be gained by way of positive discussion, as they are not interested in intelligent conversation, or honest dialogue. If after reading the forum, you still have any questions as to who they are, just ask me, and I will be happy to tell you. And I can also provide documentation of their willful dishonesty. One thing is for certain...in a forum where people from both sides claim to be "Christians", there should never be any willful lying. Such ones only create a distraction in the forum, and provide nothing of any real value.

Education/Credentials
High School, some college. Studies of God's Word, the Bible, and how it compares to JW theology. I have found my own personal study and experiences to be far more valuable than any formal education or training. The Bible message is clear...Salvation is ONLY through and by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and no religious organization has a thing to do with it. While attendance at a Bible-preaching, Bible-believing church is a must for spiritual growth and fellowship, no church can grant salvation to its members. Nor is joining a particular group a prerequisite for being saved.

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