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Jehovah`s Witness/Mr. Grunbaum's Side Of The Story...

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Question
What follows, are from a series of e-mails that I have received from Mr. Grunbaum, in response to my contacting him regarding DW's slander.  The readers are free to decide whom they believe is credible, but I believe the words speak for themselves...One writes, full of pride and arrogance, while one didn't even want to comment, but was basically forced into it.

Answer
All of Mr. Grunbaum's comments will be in BOLD print.  From Grunbaum:

“Hello Derrick,no I dont want to commen on this because this was a private matter on the email forum evidently its been made public by D.W for what ever reason only he knows.I assure you I'm still a witness in good standing,since he made this public then yes he was removed from the email forum ,it started when everyone provided personal info and where their congregation is located ,phone numbers etc he claimed he couldn't provide his info because of Allexperts and the apostates were after him and to protect his family he refused,brother Drake who is on the board provided his including his phone number, brorando refused and Brother Nelson {Prince} and myself for obvious reasons declined.D.W then called the numbers provided where the brothers congregations are located to see if they were telling the truth all the while not providing any information about himself yet checking up on everyone else. He called brother Stewart congregation because he was convinced he was an apostate,he claimed the brothers confirmed he was a witness but provided additional info on his spiritual standing which the brothers wont do especially to an unknown caller asking questions, they may not even say if a brother or sister even attend because of such a call so we because suspicious of DW and his motives He then claimed Sal who lives in the same city as one in the email forum were the same person based on a topix post by one brother and Sal posted another thinking they were in the same congregation which they are not,he then called Brooklyn thinking they would give him info on my person he went on Facebook checking my page seeking info ,he really went to far with his search,he accused me of being Sal ,accused Sal of being brother Steward accused him of being me now you say he is accusing you of being me.”

“Why you are being dragged into this I dont know,DW made my personal business his business while not telling anyone who he is.Many of us dont think he is a witness in good standing because no loving humble brother would go to such lenghts to disprove one is a brother or not.

“In the end all he proved was we are witnesses and no one knows who he is,I'm sorry you were put into this.”

“Ok,you and I have had our differences but we always show respect for each other. DW should not have made this public because now it will be viewed brothers cant get along and Jesus clearly said love would be an identifying mark that they were his disciples,we are trying to understand why he did all this ,some are saying he wanted to be the moderator on the email site and when he couldn't he became angry ,he got Sister T and rando to leave the forum following him instead of waiting to get all the facts,to make a private matter public is slander as you said,his aim was to expose someone as an apostate but all he did was raise questions about himself because to discredit someone you need to be credible yourself and he refused to provide who he talked to in calling around in his inquiry of me and others, any witness knows the brothers wont respond to questions about one of their members on a phone call yet he claimed they provided personal info on one of the brothers and that raised suspicions on him that why he went public looking to get even looking for support.”


And to be fair, I want to make clear that my addresses to Rando in this post, are for my own personal reasons.  Mr. Grunbaum wanted to make it clear that Rando himself, had nothing to do with DW’s actions in the chat room.  Rando, along with Sister T, merely FOLLOWED DW out of it, and basically sided with him.  

I will now post a later e-mail I got from Mr. Grunbaum, to this effect….

“Just for the record all of this turmoil was DW's doing nor brotherando,rando just was a followers he didn't have anything to do with the searches just after DW's rantings expressed he no longer wanted to be on the from the forum so I dont think you should come down on him, like I said its between now you and DW since he publiclly questioned if you were me,why Sal questioned you I'm not sure,anyway this has caused Brother Drake to leave the Allexperts for an extended time.”

So, my exposing of Rando here, has nothing to do with DW showing himself in their private chat room.  Its because he is of the same type, as DW is.  They both take each other’s side, they both act the same, they are both dishonest hypocrites and liars.  In short, they both practice lying and wickedness, contrary to the Scriptures.  And since they feel free to slander OTHERS in public, then they themselves need to be shown for what they are.

That being said, I have a few things to say to these charlatans myself....

Very well, DW…For whatever reason, you called me out and dragged my name into this debacle, and evidently wanted me to get involved with a situation in a chat room, that had nothing at all to do with me.  So, I shall.  And I am going to challenge you, and show your true colors.

DW is the person who came into this forum, telling the world how “Satanic attacks” work…He said it is when a person attacks the messenger, instead of the message.  And DW, you are the master of “character attacks”.  There has never been a character attack in this forum in my memory, that can compare with what you posted about your former friend, and fellow JW.

Now, it is no secret to anyone that Mr. Grunbaum and myself have had our differences.  In fact, we have had some major disputes, and some of it wasn‘t too pretty.  But NOBODY deserves to be slandered by an ANONYMOUS COWARD, such as this DW character.  And there was no way I could respond to Sal’s question about Grunbaum, and allow the man to be slandered in such a devilish way, without getting his side of the story.

So, I’m going to say some things, and Mr. Grunbaum has nothing to do with what I am about to say.  I doubt he would want me to say them, and he does not know what I am going to write here.  He will see this when it posts, just like everyone else.  I hate to address anyone in the manner in which I am going to, but you don't deal with snakes, by reasoning with them.  You have to deal with them harshly...They may coil up, they may puff their heads up and open their mouth, and they may even bluff a strike....But in the end, they can be overcome with a good hoe, and someone who knows how to handle it.   

Its high time the slanderers here, namely DW and Rando, get shown for what they are.  When I read these comments from Mr. Grunbaum, I was shocked.  Literally shocked, that this DW person has the gall, to REFUSE to give his OWN personal information out, even in a small chat room with fellow JWs, and then set himself up as Jehovah’s own Private Investigator, to check on everyone else’s identities.

Now, I would like the readers of this board, to tell me what is more HYPOCRITICAL than 2 craven cowards HIDING behind aliases, and then throwing around insults, slander, lies, calling people “dangerous” and “apostate”, when they themselves are nothing but liars, cowards, and hypocrites?

SO…DW and Rando “declined” to give their personal information.  The 2 biggest slanderers and liars, with the MOST to hide, the 2 who set themselves up as everyone’s Judge, also refuse to give their names…SURPRISE, SURPRISE, SURPRISE!!!!  Who would have thunk it????

Now folks, this is WHY you saw an EXTREMELY paranoid, and borderline INSANE, post from Rando several weeks back, warning about giving out personal information and congregational information, and worrying about the GB dealing with certain ones who are complete frauds….

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Jehovah-s-Witness-1617/2013/8/thank-exposing-derrick-

Since they feel so free to “expose” others, we have to just ask…What are THEY hiding, that they are too cowardly to use their real names?

So, let’s just ask ourselves…Since DW and Rando are so fond of claiming everyone is someone else, then let’s call them out and challenge them to say who THEY are.  I mean, how do we know that DW and Rando are not the same person?  One is from England, and the other is from the US?  But maybe they’re lying.  Maybe they are not 2 different people.  Think about it…They BOTH lie.  They BOTH exhibit signs of mental disorders.  They BOTH claim to know each other outside of the board.  If one is in England, and the other is in the US, then how likely is that?  Not impossible, no…but how likely is it, that they have known each other for years?  

Now, do I THINK they are the same person?  No, I don’t.  But do we know for sure that they aren’t?  I mean, they seem VERY obsessed with always accusing others, of being someone else.  Dee is Luis, Bob is Luis, I have been everybody except for the Pope…Hmm, maybe they are actually the same person?  Do I think this is the case?  No…I’ll admit, however, the thought has crossed my mind.  I mean, what is the likelihood, that there is actually another person in the world, who is as warped as Rando?

Also, they both like to accuse others of writing THEMSELVES under other names/aliases.  Does ANYBODY reading this, actually believe that DW did not write this “Testing the Spirits” post, to himself?  Does anybody actually believe that the person who “writes” Rando with all the “LOL”s, and asking him to “expose the liar, Derrick Holland, again”, is not actually Rando writing HIMSELF?  Then, these hypocrites come on here and accuse others of doing it?

Well I, for one, can categorically state right now, that I have NEVER ONCE written myself, using an alias, and LYING by pretending to be someone else.  I would feel quite stupid, writing to myself, and telling myself how smart I am, and “what a help” I have been.  

Now, let’s challenge these 2 clowns, to come here and deny that THEY have done it.  DW having the nerve to talk about Grunbaum using other names.  Yes, Grunbaum has done that.  But normally while writing to OTHER people, or setting up an Allexperts profile.  Is there any law that says you have to use your real name, in writing someone else?  If so, then Rando and DW are the biggest hypocrites of all.  What are THEIR real names?  Does anyone know?

But it IS lying, and EXTREMELY dishonest, to write YOURSELF using another name, and trying to give a FALSE impression that someone else is actually writing it.  And BOTH of these “men” (and I use the word "men", very loosely), have done it, and continue to do it.

If they are NOT the same person, then reading their posts certainly makes one wonder, if human cloning has actually occurred.

So Rando, tell us…What STATE do you live in?  I mean, you felt so free to come on here, and tell everyone not only my state, but also my city.  C’mon, you coward…Tell su where YOU live?  What are you afraid of…that the GB will contact your local KH, and they will boot you out on your ear?

You hidin' something, Rando?

Since you can label me a “dishonest employee”, and a “fornicator”, then tell us about yourself….Do YOU work?  I can’t imagine you actually having a job.  Are you married?  Are YOU a fornicator, or an adulterer?  I pity the poor woman, who has to put up with your craziness.  I seriously doubt you are married…I just can’t imagine.

I think you are just an extremely bitter person, and you probably have very few friends.  People with friends, normally don’t have to write posts to themselves, for the purpose of bragging on themselves.

You like to post cartoon videos on YouTube, Rando.  Why don’t you do like I have, and make a REAL video, and put your face on one of these videos?  Are you hiding something?  Not that I care or anything, but really…Don’t be a hypocrite about it.  If you think you are authorized to expose everyone else, why not at least tell us about yourself?

Perhaps YOU better fit the description of DW’s “warning”, about who not to trust?

What proof can you give us, Rando, that you are a real JW, and that you should be trusted?  You have no choice but to remain anonymous, because you have been exposed as a liar.  And you falsely claim that you are “loyal to the Slave”?  What a joke!  You HIDE from them, and refuse to give them your information, when asked?  And not just once, but several years ago, as well.

And you, DW…Since you feel so free to even insinuate that Mr. Grunbaum and me are the same person, and that I write to myself under another alias…Tell us, then…Did you NOT write this “A Testing of Spirits” post to YOURSELF, as well?  Those were some strange questions in that post from the “questioner“, and completely unrelated to anything about Mr. Grunbaum, and it certainly appears that you simply needed something to use as a springboard to begin your slander.

But since you are so free to make such a false implication about us being one and the same person….Why don’t you tell us who YOU are, and if you yourself have ever pretended to be someone else?

Like I have said….I’ll put my integrity up against the likes of you 2 clowns, ANY day of the week.  And it won’t even be close.

So, tell us, DW…Is it true that you were removed from the chat room, because you were the self-appointed “policeman”, to verify everyone else, while yourself remaining anonymous?

Let’s all be watching the board, and see if these sorry excuses for “men”, will actually have the spine to stop hiding behind their computers, and actually show us that THEY themselves are honest and trustworthy men.

Go write yourself another post, Rando.  The heat is on you right now.  You need to pretend to be someone else, and brag on yourself…Hurry UP!!  Go make up some more lies about the Trinity and post them....that will surely make everyone forget what a liar and a coward you are, and how nobody really knows ANYTHING about you.

Now, I will close with this…..And this, coming from the one who is labeled the “opposer” of the forum.  I believe this forum should have GENUINE JW voices here, to provide their side.  Those people who will provide this, are:

1.  Brenton Hepburn
2.  Elbert Spears
3.  David Drake DeLaurentos (on vacation until early next year)

And possibly, the 2 ladies named Carol and Pam B.  None of these people have to stoop to insulting, and slandering anyone with lies.  

Or, you can simply go to these 2 anonymous cowards...aka...DW and Rando, who are really brave behind a computer screen, think they are God’s personal FBI, and who can’t even write a post without lying and slandering, yet can never back up any of it with facts.  Two hypocrites, who are motivated by jealousy, and anger...one because he didn’t get his way in some chat room, and one who is controlled by demons, and couldn't speak the truth if he tried.

If anyone is causing harm to this religion, it is the likes of them.  

I’m trying to figure out whether Eddie is a JW, or not.  Rando is big buddies with him, they refer to each other as “brother”, but DW is also big buddies with Rando, and yet DW left Eddie’s name out, and stated that there are “only 4 genuine Witnesses” here.

And poor Sister T is so gullible, that she gets swept up in it all….It really is sad and pathetic.  If DW, Rando, or Sister T cared one bit about this religion, they would let the COMPETENT JW’s who aren’t in hiding, do the answering for that side.   Your religion deserves better, than the disgraceful and shameful manner, in which you have blackened it.  

We have all seen how Rando has forgotten and completely disregards, the many Scriptures on lying.

Now, DW apparently disregards Proverbs 6:16, 19-  “These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:…he that soweth discord among brethren.”

Rando completely ignores the other parts of this passage (vs. 16, 18, 19), as well….

“These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: …a lying tongue…An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief…A false witness that speaketh lies”

Why would anyone want to be so foolish, as to do things God HATES?  And why do others condone and support them in it?  

Okay, now let's all sit back and anxiously anticipate Rando's next posting on the Trinity.  Let's all see the desperation in action, which will surely come.  

Seriously....You guys are a disgrace to your religion, and to the word "Christian".  

Jehovah`s Witness

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Derrick Holland

Expertise

I was raised in the religion known as Jehovah`s Witnesses for 13 years. Since becoming a born-again Christian, I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history. I can answer questions about their doctrines from the perspective of Biblical Christianity. To be clear: Jehovahs Witnesses is the religion of my upbringing, though I myself was never baptized into the religion, nor have I ever been considered as a Jehovahs Witness.

Experience

29 years of Biblical research into the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, and how they differ from the teachings of the Watchtower.

Organizations
I would advise each questioner to this forum, to carefully READ the profiles of the various volunteers. There are several such as myself, who are not practicing JWs, but will provide you with an accurate and honest answer, regarding JW teaching. If we don't know the answer, we will try to research and get it for you. There are also some excellent practicing JWs here, who also endeavor to give you a factual and honest answer, based on their point of view. I believe by getting both points of view, the questioner can weigh the evidence for themselves, and make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are also 3 here who claim to be JWs, but do NOT give honest, or well-researched answers. They will tell you only what they want you to believe, and they often hide facts about the history of their religion, as well as print untruths about other people's beliefs. This is done in an attempt to deceive the unsuspecting reader. It can be easily seen who these 3 are, simply by reading the public posts and "answers" which they write. Their posts will normally be filled with personal attacks, and if you question them about some teaching or aspect of the Watchtower that makes them uncomfortable, they will often reject your question, question your motives for asking it, tell you that you have been reading "apostate" sites, or turn the conversation into an attack on another expert. These ones are better avoided, as there is nothing to be gained by way of positive discussion, as they are not interested in intelligent conversation, or honest dialogue. If after reading the forum, you still have any questions as to who they are, just ask me, and I will be happy to tell you. And I can also provide documentation of their willful dishonesty. One thing is for certain...in a forum where people from both sides claim to be "Christians", there should never be any willful lying. Such ones only create a distraction in the forum, and provide nothing of any real value.

Education/Credentials
High School, some college. Studies of God's Word, the Bible, and how it compares to JW theology. I have found my own personal study and experiences to be far more valuable than any formal education or training. The Bible message is clear...Salvation is ONLY through and by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and no religious organization has a thing to do with it. While attendance at a Bible-preaching, Bible-believing church is a must for spiritual growth and fellowship, no church can grant salvation to its members. Nor is joining a particular group a prerequisite for being saved.

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