Jehovah`s Witness/How Old Is This World

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QUESTION: In The Bible where Michael has war with Satan and throws him down to this earth you will say that was 1914. Well then that means that this world is 99 years old then. Is this right? And Adam must still be alive.

ANSWER: Hello Timothy,
I'll try to cover your question thoroughly by taking a part at at time.
I will put your words in bold .
Your answer is found within the scriptures, so I hope you won't waste our time by just reading the words of my reply, which is worthless.
If you would prefer to have the scriptures pop-up for you, instead of having to look them up in a Bible, you can do this at:

http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-kingdom-when.html


"In The Bible where Michael has war with Satan and throws him down to this earth"

You refer to Rev.12:7, where Satan and Michael are at war, as well as the "seed" who follow each of these, also being at war. This war was first referred to at Gen.3:15.
Each army of "seed" has both, a mother and a father.
The seed of "Michael" are also the seed of the "woman".
Mothers are covenants (See Gal.4:24). There is the mother covenant of life (Gal.4:26) and the mother covenant of death (Isa.28:15).
This is true also of Satan's seed. He is their father (John8:44; 2Thess.2:3). Their mother is mentioned at Rev.17:5.

The "seed" of these are also the "angels" of Rev.12:7, because the original Greek translated as "angel", simply means "messenger". These angels are labeled messengers of the mother covenant they represent (Mal.3:1; Matt.11:10; 17:10,11,3; Rev.11:3,4; Zech.4:14,9) (Gal.4:26; Rev.3:12)

"you will say that was 1914

I don't know where you heard that I say that Satan was hurled to the earth in 1914, because I know that this is a lying doctrine. Satan was judged in the first century by means of Christ's faithfulness (see John12:21; 16:11,33; 14:30). Satan even lost his power over Christ's Chosen ones (Luke10:18,19,20; Heb.12:23,22. As the last ones of these prove faithful to death (Rev.6:9,10,11; 12:11), Satan's power will then become completely crushed (Rom.16:20; Rev.2:26,27; 12:5,10,11; Dan.2:34,35; Jer.1:10).

"Well then that means that this world is 99 years old then"

I don't follow your reasoning. When the Bible refers to the "world", it is referring to Satan's dominion. That began in Eden, long ago.
I hope I understand you right, if I assume you mean...
that if the kingdom of God began in 1914 , that this kingdom of God would now be 99 years old. I hope that's what you mean, because I will reply to that.
Well,
the Bible tells us that Jesus began his rule in the midst of his enemies in the first Century (Ps.110:1,2; 1Pet.3:22; Matt.28:18; 1Cor.15:25,24).
Jesus was already king of God's kingdom back then...John18:37; Matt.21:1,2,3,4,5; Luke17:21).

Two ways to easily disprove 1914, is to look at two scriptures.

The first is found at Rev.12:10.
It reads:
"Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, because the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down ."
So tell me....Which occurs first? Is it the kingdom...or the "casting down"?
"NOW...the kingdom...BECAUSE accuser HAS BEEN cast down".

We are clearly being told that the kingdom begins, because Satan is cast down first.
"Jehovah's Witnesses" teach, that "the first action Christ takes as king of the new kingdom, is to cast Satan down". Rev.12:10 proves that this is error.
The kingdom cannot begin until after Satan is left with no more accusations against the brothers of Christ (co-heirs of the kingdom).
Why?
Because they are at that point...all proven faithful and sealed.
This is precisely why the kingdom can begin then...because it now has it's full number of kings. Their being sealed as faithful, is the means by which Satan is conquered and cast down (Rev.12:10,11).
Christ waits for all his sealed brothers to also conquer Satan, before <i>GOD'S </i> rule begins (1Cor.15:24).
This is when that kingdom administration [which was being gathered since the first century (Matt.13:37,38,39; John4:35,36) is completed (Rev.6:9,10,11; 20:4; 14:1; 7:4) and appointed over ALL Christ's belongings (Matt.25:23; 24:26,27).
This takes place at the scripture we started with...Rev.12:10.
I hope you can see that the scriptures contain no indication of 1914. It never will, because the "seven times" used to calculate this year, are supposed to be applied symbolically, not literally (But this is another subject).

The second scripture which disproves that the kingdom began in 1914, is found at Matt.24:3,8.
The "pangs of distress" Jesus spoke of, was actually worded "labor pains" (See Greek of Mark13:8 also).
"Jehovah's Witnesses" again switch the order here.
They say that the labor pains we see occurring in the world around us, are proof that the kingdom was born in 1914. (War,famine,earthquakes,etc.)

Now stop there and think about this....
What happens first?....
Labor pains...or birth???
How can the kingdom be born at the start of labor pains, and not after???
Once again, "Jehovah's Witnesses" switch the order.
Why are they making the arrival of the kingdom pre-mature?

This deception was prophesied to occur (2Thess.2:1,2,3)
...which is why Christ's visible arrival (and the blessings of God's kingdom) seem delayed.
This premature kingdom announcement, comes "as if from us" (2Thess.2:2), meaning, "as if from" the apostles (Rev.2:2; 2Cor.11:13; Matt.24:4,5,24,25).
It is the wicked steward over God's household of anointed virgins, that expects and teaches them this premature arrival (Matt.25:5; 24:48,49; Hab.2:3).
Rev.12:1,2,5 makes clear...that the kingdom's birth occurs after labor pains.

But we are not done.
Who has labor pains....Satan's world...or the woman in heaven?
Satan has been able to mislead everyone with events taking place in the very world he controls (1John5:19; John12:31). God's Holy Kingdom is not being born from this demonic source (Job14:4; John18:36).

"And Adam must still be alive"

Your logic eludes me. I don't know what Adam's lifespan has to do with the kingdom's birth, 1914, or the kingdom being 99 years into it's reign.
I would be happy to reply to this statement, if you will please clarify what you mean.

If I have misunderstood any of your question...please clarify and re-submit it, and I would be happy to re-consider.

Thank you for your good question. I hope my reply is satisfactory. The cited scriptures are where the essence of your answers lie, so please don't follow up until you have considered them.
God grant you His favor, through knowledge and peace.
Love in Christ,
Pearl

http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com
http://www.blogger.com/profile/13281232149590681155
http://4womaninthewildernessforum.yuku.com/


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: You are not a Jehovah Witness are you? You are right that they really come up with strange doctrines. It seems like that you agree with me based upon your answers. I find it very hard to believe in the 1914 doctrine. And as you can see because I was following their reasoning I was even more confused. You have shown me that I am not the only one whi feels that way about them.

Answer
Dear Timothy,
I see that you tried to reason with "Bro DW".
I thought since he did not get the sense of the scriptures I cited, but rather dismissed what they reveal, I would follow up for you.
He stated:
"So think about it why does the labour pains have to come before the birth on two SEPERATE women?? One's an Earthly Woman and one's Heavenly. Two separate women have two separate labour pains and two separate births. According to Pearls argument everyone on the Earth is exactly the same age, all women get pregnant at the same time and all give birth at the same time. Nonsense!!!
It's the birth of the heavenly woman that causes the labour pains for the earthly woman. The labour pains are for the "Earthly Woman" not the Heavenly one!!
"

I will remind you of what Rev.12:1,2 actually said...
"Now a great sign appeared IN HEAVEN : a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. 2 Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth. "
The labor pains, according to God, take place with a heavenly woman, not an earthly one. This does not necessarily mean that those who represent this woman on earth (but whose names are sealed in the heavens) do not have labor pains, because they do (Gal.4:19; Luke10:20; Isa.4:3; Heb.12:23)...but it does mean that these labor pains, are not coming from Satan's world. (John18:36; Job.14:4)
DW then quotes Rev.12:13 to refer to the same heavenly woman as being on earth...
Rev 12:13
"Now when the dragon saw that it had been hurled down to the earth,+ it persecuted the woman+ WHO GAVE BIRTH to the male child".
He is absolutely right...as I showed you in the scriptures above, that those anointed who are sealed into this covenant, become this covenant above and represent it on earth (Gal.4:26; Rev.3:12; Isa.42:6; Gal.4:19; Luke10:20; Isa.4:3; Heb.12:23).
Again, these labor pains are found within these holy ones who are of heaven (see previous scriptures)....not within Satan's world which is where "JW's" point to for the fulfillment of these "labor pains".
If you would like to read about the actual woman having these labor pains, and how the scriptures identify the spiritual fulfillment of the signs Jesus gave, I hope you will consider
http://pearl-sign.blogspot.com

DW then says...
"Can you really argue that Satan being in heaven prevented Jesus being crowned King?? How can you say that the basis of Jesus kingship is Satan being hurled to Earth?? It's nonsense!! This is what the scriptures say is the basis of Jesus Kingship "

Of course, I never said these things. As you know, I did say that while Satan retains his power, he has opposed the 144000 from being sealed and crowned , which is after all, what the true arrival of the kingdom awaits (Rev.6:9,10,11; 7:4; 14:1). Satan has demanded to test these ones. "Day and night" he makes accusations against them, trying to prevent their receiving the final seal of God's approval (Rev.12:10,17; Luke22:31; Rom.16:20). Jesus is not awaiting his own crown, but rather the crowning of the full number of his co-rulers (Rev.3:11; 20:4).
Poor DW is still under Satan's blinding curse, as an agent of the Abyss (Rev.9:3,11).

As far as DW refuting the order of Satan's needing to be cast down by the chosen ones, before the kingdom victory for the completed 144000 (not the victory for Christ), the scriptures cannot be nullified (Rev.12:10,11). Christ has not been ruling in God's Kingdom since 1914 without all his co-heirs. DW has totally forgotten that the kingdom administration is more than Christ (Eph.1:10; Rev.14:1).

Satan attained authority and power when Adam and Even sinned (Gen.3:13,16,17,18,19,23,24; Heb.2:14; 1John5:19). He exploited the justice of God to achieve his own purposes (Gen.3:1,2,3,4,5,6). It was granted by God for Satan to rule this world (Rom.13:1; John19:11), until a just basis could be satisfied to remove Satan's authority and power (Gen.3:15).

Satan must be conquered in order to re-establish the Kingdom of God over all creation, and to restore creation's freedom from sin and death. This is according to the requirements of God's justice.

If it were not necessary for Satan to lose his world dominion by means of God's justice, then God would not have subjected creation to cruel corruption, for nothing (Rom.8:19,20,21,22,23,24,25). But God is love (1John4:8), and when He temporarily abandoned creation to Satan due to Adam's choice; it was according to His justice (Gen.2:16,17).
The establishment of God's Kingdom, and the fall of Satan, must also be by means of God's justice.
Why was Jesus Christ required to suffer and die?
(2Tim.1:10; Eph.1:7; John1:12; Heb.2:3,4,9,10,17; 9:26; Rom.5:17).

Satan's fall from power requires God's justice to be satisfied first...unless you believe that God is unnecessarily cruel, and wants us to suffer and die for no reason.
It was necessary for Christ to be faithful under test, if he hoped to dethrone Satan (1John3:8; John12:31; 14:30; 16:11,33; Heb.2:14). This conquering of Satan was necessary, before Jesus Christ could be crowned king over creation (Heb.12:2; Rev.3:21) in place of Satan.
The same requirement stands for all those called ones, who hope to join Christ and be sealed as a kingdom co-heir (Acts14:22; 1John2:13; Rev.12:11; Mark8:35; 2Tim.2:12; Rom.8:17; Rev.3:21; Luke10:18,19).

As you can see by the foregoing scriptures...Christ's faithfulness to death did cause Satan's fall from authority and power. Yet Christ does not rule alone (Rom.8:17; Gal.3:29; Rev.5:10; 20:6). Each and every heir must also conquer Satan (Luke22:31; 2Cor.2:11; 1Pet.5:8; 1John2:14; Rom.12:21; Rom.16:19,20; Rev.12:7; 17:14; 19:11,14,8).
It is their individual victories to be completed, that Christ and all creation await.
Each member of the 144000 must follow the footsteps of Christ (1Pet.2:21; Matt.16:24; 1John2:6; John14:6; Rev.14:4)...all the way to a faithful death for truth (Rom.6:5; Phil.3:10; Rev.6:9,11; 12:11).
Satan attained authority and power when Adam and Even sinned (Gen.3:13,16,17,18,19,23,24; Heb.2:14; 1John5:19). He exploited the justice of God to achieve his own purposes (Gen.3:1,2,3,4,5,6). It was granted by God for Satan to rule this world (Rom.13:1; John19:11), until a just basis could be satisfied to remove Satan's authority and power (Gen.3:15).

Satan must be conquered in order to re-establish the Kingdom of God over all creation, and to restore creation's freedom from sin and death. This is according to the requirements of God's justice.

If it were not necessary for Satan to lose his world dominion by means of God's justice, then God would not have subjected creation to cruel corruption, for nothing (Rom.8:19,20,21,22,23,24,25). But God is love (1John4:8), and when He temporarily abandoned creation to Satan due to Adam's choice; it was according to His justice (Gen.2:16,17).
The establishment of God's Kingdom, and the fall of Satan, must also be by means of God's justice.
Why was Jesus Christ required to suffer and die?
(2Tim.1:10; Eph.1:7; John1:12; Heb.2:3,4,9,10,17; 9:26; Rom.5:17).

Satan's fall from power requires God's justice to be satisfied first...unless you believe that God is unnecessarily cruel, and wants us to suffer and die for no reason.
It was necessary for Christ to be faithful under test, if he hoped to dethrone Satan (1John3:8; John12:31; 14:30; 16:11,33; Heb.2:14). This conquering of Satan was necessary, before Jesus Christ could be crowned king over creation (Heb.12:2; Rev.3:21) in place of Satan.
The same requirement stands for all those called ones, who hope to join Christ and be sealed as a kingdom co-heir (Acts14:22; 1John2:13; Rev.12:11; Mark8:35; 2Tim.2:12; Rom.8:17; Rev.3:21; Luke10:18,19).

As you can see by the foregoing scriptures...Christ's faithfulness to death did cause Satan's fall from authority and power. Yet Christ does not rule alone (Rom.8:17; Gal.3:29; Rev.5:10; 20:6). Each and every heir must also conquer Satan (Luke22:31; 2Cor.2:11; 1Pet.5:8; 1John2:14; Rom.12:21; Rom.16:19,20; Rev.12:7; 17:14; 19:11,14,8).
It is their individual victories to be completed, that Christ and all creation await.
Each member of the 144000 must follow the footsteps of Christ (1Pet.2:21; Matt.16:24; 1John2:6; John14:6; Rev.14:4)...all the way to a faithful death for truth (Rom.6:5; Phil.3:10; Rev.6:9,11; 12:11).
Each of them must overcome the temptations, tests, and persecutions by Satan, before being declared victorious by their Master, Christ. Once the last of the remnant conquer the evil one, Satan's fall will be completed. At Rev.6:9,10 those already slain ask how long they must wait. The answer given is Rev.6:11. The last of them (remnant) must also conquer for the sake of truth, at the cost of their lives.
DW totally dismisses the justice of God, His divine requirements, and the essential means by which creation must be restored.

I hope that if DW's ignorance caused you any confusion, that these new scriptural thoughts may help to clarify. We should pray for all those still captive and under the power of this Great Tribulation of spiritual test, that as many as possible will be saved from this blinding deception, which has been delivered by means of Satan, the false prophet, and the wild beast (Rev.9:1-3; 16:14; 13:11-18; 2Thess.2:4,9; Matt.24:4,5,24,25).


Now this section will reply to your first question about me being a "JW"...

My answer to this is;
I was a "Jehovah's Witness" for 35 years. I was thrown out for putting truth as more important than subjection to lies, and subjection to the dominating men who spawn them. The faithful must be in subjection to Christ. He is the Head of the Congregation among the faithful.
However, I hope you will allow me to correct one thing you say...
I am now one of Yhwh's Witnesses, more than ever.
You see...It is God who has the right to label His own witnesses.
He does this, as revealed at Isa.43:10.
Yet taking that title for oneself, does not make it true, nor is God obligated to accept it.

The very scripture which "Jehovah's Witnesses" use to validate their claim, is Isa.43:10. But a closer examination of that verse, disproves what they assume.
You see, there it is revealed that God "chooses" these individuals. These are called "chosen ones". What does He choose them to do? That answer is found in the context, at Isa.43:21. A brief comparison of that verse, with 1Pet.2:9,10,5 makes plain, that God's authentic witnesses, are God's "chosen" priesthood.
This link goes into more depth on this subject:
http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/04/who-are-yhwhs-witnesses.html

This is why, when I refer to those known as "Jehovah's Witnesses", I always put that title in "quotes", because this claim, is false.
When I am referring to the genuine priesthood of "chosen" witnesses, I will simply write, Yhwh's Witnesses.
I am relieved to learn of your accurate understanding.
I hope you will pursue gaining more, resulting in life eternal.
God continue to bless you with His Spirit,
Pearl

http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com
http://www.blogger.com/profile/13281232149590681155
http://4womaninthewildernessforum.yuku.com/

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pearl doxsey

Expertise

PLEASE NOTE THAT MY PROFILE HAS BEEN UPDATED. I have been teaching the Bible since 1976, as well as studying JW publications. I am very familiar with the teachings of the Watchtower. As regards anyone's ability to teach truth, it largely depends upon Holy Spirit. For, without it you have no wisdom or scriptural understanding. I will do my best to assist anyone who asks. I have noticed a couple of warnings about "apostates" within the list of "experts". The definition of "apostate", according to the scriptures, are those who deviate from the truth. Therefore, only the scriptures have the authority to identify such a person (John 17:17). Merely disagreeing with someone in authority, does not constitute true apostasy. Otherwise, Jesus himself would have been an apostate. Jesus' own words afford us ample protection from such wolves. He said, "By their fruits you will recognize those men." Matt.7:17-27. Therefore, by all means, exercise every caution! Your life depends upon you doing so! But Jesus did not give the picture men expect of faithful ones today. He did not point to power, authority, growing numbers, accomplishments, or influence as being the sign of his true anointed disciples (Mark10:42,43; Matt.7:22). He pointed to fine fruit. This would include a love of truth and a clinging to God's word in every teaching (1Peter2:2). This authenticity becomes clear, when teachings are closely examined. So too, are "apostates" revealed, as those who deviate from God's word, or fail to do their utmost, to derive every teaching, from it. (see pearl-finetrees.blogspot.com)

Experience

I have been a baptized JW for decades. I was enrolled in my Congregation as a regular pioneer, though I did not sign the pledge of allegiance to men on the back of the application. I have read the Bible through many times, had been in the Theocratic Ministry school for decades, and was anointed by Jehovah God, through Jesus Christ, 42 years ago in June. As Organizational doctrine progressively strayed from the scriptures, I made comments during meetings and to Witness friends, including elders. Although I justified all my concerns with scripture, this alone lead to me being disfellowshipped in April, 2012. I continue to consider myself one of Jehovah's true witnesses, because Jehovah himself defines who His witnesses are, at Isa.43:10-12. There He states that they are His "chosen" ones (1Pet.2:9), whom he has called to declare the fact that Jehovah is the only Savior (Isa.43:11)...not men, nor an organization (Psalm146:3). This I faithfully do, and I have been chosen by Him to do so. I accordingly write articles about how the scriptures themselves interpret prophecies which apply to our era. (4womaninthewilderness.blogpspot.com) The directory of articles can be found in my profile, located there.

Organizations
I belong to the group chosen and anointed by Jehovah God through Jesus Christ...invited to accept the full course of Christ. If I prove faithful, I hope to belong to the Heavenly Mt. Zion, the Holy City, New Jerusalem.

Publications
4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com ....also....http://www.blogger.com/profile/13281232149590681155

Education/Credentials
The Scribes and Pharisees took the lead in Jehovah's house of worship in the time of Christ. Jesus had the divine credentials to publicly criticize those men, and he certainly did so. Why? Was he a rebel, only seeking to promote disunity and gain a following for himself? No. Jesus realized how spiritually harmful such leaders are to those who blindly follow them. He was therefore obligated, as were his disciples, to champion scriptural truth; despite the backlash from those in power, and those loyal to those in power. Truth (not power, position, or favor with men), leads to everlasting life. John 17:3,17 The anointed are under obligation to accept the same assignment as Christ. They are divinely commanded, authorized, and qualified to do so.... not by men, but by the truth of the scriptures, and Jehovah's spirit. My education, has been by means of that spirit, as we read..... "And YOU have an anointing from the holy one; all of YOU have knowledge. And as for YOU, the anointing that YOU received from him remains in YOU, and YOU do not need anyone to be teaching YOU; but, as the anointing from him is teaching YOU about all things, and is true and is no lie, and just as it has taught YOU, remain in union with him." 1John2:20,27 Matt.13:55-57; John7:15,16; Acts4:13; John16:13

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