Jehovah`s Witness/Benyamin Grünbaum a Narcissist ?
I see you are "star" struck reading your post to grunbalm ,I wrote to you weeks ago about him and how he associates with certain ones which you didn't seem to care what you dont know is the trye person he really is mayne after reading this that was posted before you came will change your mind on him"""""""
Expert: Derrick Holland - 5/8/2012
He is conceited and argumentative.It's not unusual for narcissists to be outstanding in their field of work. But these are the successful people who have a history of alienating colleagues, co workers, employees, students, clients, and customers people go away mad or sad after close contact with narcissists.
I would like to ask him a question but every time I come to this site he is gone on vacation, He sure leaves quite a bit.I looked up traits of a narcissists see if it fits Grunbalm
The most telling thing that narcissists do is contradict themselves. They will do this virtually in the same sentence
They will contradict FACTS. They will lie to you about things that you did together. They will misquote you to yourself. If you disagree with them, they'll say you're lying, making stuff up, or are crazy,dumb or stupid.
They are very mean and brutal to other people. Trying to reform narcissists by reasoning with them or by appealing to their better nature is about as effective as spitting in the ocean. What you see is what you get: they have no better nature. The fundamental problem here is that narcissists lack empathy.
They feel that, unless they are better than anyone else, they are worse than everybody in the whole world,He never lose ,He's the boss,champion chief ,wont lose unless he choose which he wont.
They are generally contemptuous of others. This seems to spring, at base, from their general lack of empathy, and it comes out as (at best) a dismissive attitude towards other people's feelings, wishes, needs, concerns, standards, property, work, etc.
They are extremely sensitive to personal criticism and extremely critical of other people. They think that they must be seen as perfect or superior or infallible, next to god-like (if not actually divine, then sitting on the right hand of God) -- or else they are worthless. There's no middle ground of ordinary normal humanity for narcissists. They can't tolerate the least disagreement. In fact, if you say, "Please don't do that again -- it hurts," narcissists will turn around and do it again harder to prove that they were right the first time;
These ones regard themselves as absolutely above reproach,a narcissists are grandiose. They live in an artificial self invented from fantasies of absolute or perfect power, genius, beauty, etc. Normal people's fantasies of themselves, their wishful thinking, take the form of stories -- these stories often come from movies or TV, or from things they've read or that were read to them as children. They involve a plot, heroic activity or great accomplishments or adventure: normal people see themselves in action, however preposterous or even impossible that action may be -- they see themselves doing things that earn them honor, glory, love, riches, fame, and they see these fantasy selves as personal potentials
Quite a number of these are filthy rich thats another thing them and they use money to control people and since they are rich then everyone else is beneight them.
They don't see themselves doing anything except being adored, and they don't see anyone else doing anything except adoring them.,they think women are low and dont respect women,thats why many are single.,imagining themselves as Jesus or a saint or hero or deity depicted in art
Freud said of narcissists, these people act like they're in love with themselves
They have very little sense of humor. They don't get jokes, not even the funny papers or simple riddles, and they don't make jokes, except for sarcastic cracks and the lamest puns. This is because, lacking empathy, they don't get the context and affect of words or actions, and jokes, humor, comedy depend entirely on context and affect. They specialize in sarcasm about others and mistake it for wit.
They are totally and inflexibly authoritarian. totaltaltory.rule.They want to be authority figures and, short of that, they want to be associated with authority figures.
have strange work habits. Normal people work for a goal or a product, even if the goal is only a paycheck. Normal people measure things by how much they have to spend (in time, work, energy) to get the desired results. Normal people desire idleness from time to time, usually wanting as much free time as they can get to pursue their own thoughts and pleasures and interests. Narcissists work for a goal, too, but it's a different goal: they want power, authority, adulation. Lacking empathy, and lacking also context and affect, narcissists don't understand how people achieve glory and high standing; they think it's all arbitrary, it's all appearances, it's all who you know. So they try to attach themselves to people who already have what they want, meanwhile making a great show of working hard
Narcissists can put in a shocking amount of time to very little effect. This is partly because they have so little empathy that they don't know why some work is valued more highly than other work
feel entitled to whatever they can take. They expect privileges and indulgences, and they also feel entitled to exploit other people without any trace of reciprocation.,they spend extravagantly in order to impress people, keep up grandiose pretentions, or buy favorable treatment,
They can be pretty nice, even charming, flirtatious, and seductive, to strangers, and will flatter you shamelessly if they want something from you. When you attempt to get close to them in a normal way, they feel you are putting emotional pressure on them and they withdraw because you're too demanding. They can be positively fawning and solicitous as long as they're afraid of you, which is not most people's idea of a real fun relationship.They
don't volunteer the usual personal information about themselves, so they may seem secretive or perhaps unusually reserved or very jealous of their privacy
Narcissists are noted for their negative, pessimistic, cynical, or gloomy outlook on life. Sarcasm seems to be a narcissistic specialty, not to mention spite. Lacking love and pleasure, they don't have a good reason for anything they do and they think everyone else is just like them, except they're honest and the rest of us are hypocrites. Nothing real is ever perfect enough to satisfy them, so are they are constantly complaining and criticizing -- to the point of verbal abuse and insult
Narcissists are impulsive. They undo themselves by behavior that seems oddly stupid for people as intelligent as they are which is why they call others stupid and dumb.
Now I ask you from Grunbalms writings you get to see his thinking,does this describe him?
Derrick Holland answers:
Stanley, that is just about the most accurate description I believe I have ever read of Benyamin Grunbaum. It was so spot on, it had me laughing, honestly.
Now, I will cannot say that he is ALL of these things, but some of them have been very manifest right here in the forum. Some, I would not have knowledge of, such as his relationship with co-workers, etc. As for his vacation, he is gone overseas again. Possibly for another talk on the "churches of christendom", as when he went to London awhile back. Who knows?
Yes, he is really bad about misquoting Christians. However, that seems to be a nasty trait that many of these people have, not just him. But Stanley, let me just make a couple of observations here, about some of the characteristics of a narcissist in this list, and how I have noticed these traits in him.
"They will misquote you to yourself."
REPLY: Yes, but DW does this too. So, perhaps he too has some of the traits of a narcissist, but not to the extent of Grunbaum. I would view DW as a cross or hybrid version of Rando AND Grunbaum...He has Grunbaum's cockiness and arrogance, but Rando's dishonesty and stupidity. I think the difference between Rando and Grunbaum, is that Rando will deliberately lie, while Grunbaum misquotes you and lies, but actually believes in his own mind what he is saying. Rando knows better, but simply has no scruples about lying. Grunbaum believes that it can't POSSIBLY be any other way, but the way he perceives it.
Grunbaum actually told me once in Private, that he was discontinuing a discussion with me because of my "INSUBORDINATION". I am thinking..."INSUBORDINATION???? Dude, what on earth is the matter with you? You are not my superior, nor is the Watchtower, and I am not your subordinate". But that comment gave me a lot of insight into the man's mentality...He honestly believes that other people are beneath him.
"If you disagree with them, they'll say you're lying, making stuff up, or are crazy,dumb or stupid."
REPLY: Well, I think that one needs no comment. No question about it...this is a regular occurence. Oftentimes, the questioner is told they are "dumb" numerous times in the same writing. Yes, he definitely exhibits this characteristic.
"Trying to reform narcissists by reasoning with them or by appealing to their better nature is about as effective as spitting in the ocean. What you see is what you get: they have no better nature. The fundamental problem here is that narcissists lack empathy."
REPLY: Been there, and done that! Spot on!
"They feel that, unless they are better than anyone else, they are worse than everybody in the whole world,He never lose ,He's the boss,champion chief ,wont lose unless he choose which he wont."
REPLY: Again, right on the money. In his former profile as Daniel Selinski, he actually had the words "I am a champion", describing himself. Humility has never been a strong point of his. And yes, he cannot admit defeat either. Even when its obvious that he was defeated, he will come back and say "As I've shown your statement to be false", when he hasn't even come close. He has always been one to brag about his "sharp arrows", but as I pointed out the other day, his arrows remind me more of those a child can get in a sounvenir store, with the little red suction cups on the ends.
So, there is a fine line between being defeated, and being able to admit it. Grunbaum cannot admit it.
"They are generally contemptuous of others. This seems to spring, at base, from their general lack of empathy, and it comes out as (at best) a dismissive attitude towards other people's feelings, wishes, needs, concerns, standards, property, work, etc.
They are extremely sensitive to personal criticism and extremely critical of other people. They think that they must be seen as perfect or superior or infallible, next to god-like (if not actually divine, then sitting on the right hand of God) -- or else they are worthless. There's no middle ground of ordinary normal humanity for narcissists"
"They live in an artificial self invented from fantasies of absolute or perfect power, genius, beauty, etc. Normal people's fantasies of themselves, their wishful thinking, take the form of stories...........They don't see themselves doing anything except being adored, and they don't see anyone else doing anything except adoring them."
REPLY: Case in point, when Grunbaum wrote that the women "line up" after the meetings, for the privilege of the being the next Mrs. Narciss...er, I mean, Mrs. Grunbaum.
Must be frustrating to the average Joe JW, trying to get to his car, amidst such a line. And having Grunbaum at the same KH, would just about eliminate any possibility of the average Joe JW from finding himself a nice marriage mate, I guess.
"Quite a number of these are filthy rich thats another thing them and they use money to control people and since they are rich then everyone else is beneight them."
REPLY: From what I understand, Grunbaum fits this description as well.
"they think women are low and dont respect women,thats why many are single."
REPLY: I know for a fact he is single. Of course, that is his own personal business, but you do have to wonder why, since that thing about the women "lining up" and all. Maybe he does just view women as beneath him. That would be a good question to ask him. The reason this is so hard to determine, is that he views nearly ALL people as beneath him.
"Freud said of narcissists, these people act like they're in love with themselves
They have very little sense of humor. They don't get jokes, not even the funny papers or simple riddles, and they don't make jokes, except for sarcastic cracks and the lamest puns"
REPLY: Come to think of it, I can't remember the guy EVER cracking a joke, or saying anything that hinted of humor. Maybe its there, but I missed it. And I have dealt with him VERY extensively.
"They can be pretty nice, even charming, flirtatious, and seductive, to strangers, and will flatter you shamelessly if they want something from you."
REPLY: BINGO!!! Man, you hit on something here. This is the main one I wanted to address. Awhile back when Grunbaum gave a talk in London, I learned from a post on another message board, what the talk was about...The "false churches of christendom". I mean, what else would it be? Anyway, when I decided to have a little fun with him (probably not nice, I realize), I wrote him a question in Private about how I could obtain a copy or CD of his talk in London on the churches of christendom. I really didn't want the talk, and I have to be honest and admit that his constant berating of people on this board, made me want to just get in his head a little. I would have had no idea what he gave his talk on, except that a person wrote me a question saying that his e-mail was given out on another forum, and gave a link to it. There was also a comment in that forum about him giving a talk in London, and the thread named the topic of his talk. So, I was figuring he hadn't seen it, so I asked him for a copy of the talk.
Well, never in a million years did I expect the reaction that I got. He DEMANDED to know how I got this information. I told him how...I told him it was from that forum, but he would not buy it. He was CONVINCED that I had some sort of "inside connection", and people that follow him around. That's that self-importance trait, I guess. Like I even CARE enough about what he's doing, to go to all that trouble.
Anyway, back to the point....The man was just dying to know how I knew the nature of his talk, and you know what he said to me? Keep in mind that this is the guy who would not spit on me if I was on fire. Keep in mind that the guy hates my guts. But he WANTED something from me...So, when he wrote to me, trying to get me to "spill" my source, he signs the letter, get this....
"Your friend in Christ"
Now, that one was in "PRIVATE", so I will not post it, but I WILL post one to another questioner named Kevin (a friend of mine), where he does the same thing. I think it illustrates PERFECTLY the above trait of a narcissist, where they will "sweet talk" you when they want something from you, even though they really view you as scum.
I think ANYBODY can see this trait being exhibited in the above link.
"Lacking love and pleasure, they don't have a good reason for anything they do and they think everyone else is just like them, except they're honest and the rest of us are hypocrites."
REPLY: This was a statment he made back in November, when a man wrote about his JW wife participating in Thanksgiving Dinner. He wrote regarding himself...
"I have a large family who are not JWs and they know not to invite me to one of those dinners because they know I would come and spoil the thing buy rejecting the idea and showing them as religious hypocrites."
So again, spot on!
"Now I ask you from Grunbalms writings you get to see his thinking,does this describe him?"
REPLY: Uhm, yeah! And that is just from we see on this board. I wonder if we knew him and interacted with him daily, how many more of these traits might manifest themselves.
Interesting, Stanley. Thanks for sharing. I don't think there is any question about it, that so many of these characteristics are what we see from the guy on a regular basis.
Now maybe now youll view him differently.
It seems that I can't send a word of encouragement to my fellow brother without getting reprimanded by you.
I also mentioned Bro. Rando, Bro. DW and Bro. Hepburn too. We belong to ONE faith, (Eph 4:5) and we are all related in the faith, one big HAPPY family the world over. So he is truly my brother and I will send him greetings on here when ever I feel like it. Just like I have done Bro. Rando and Bro. DW in the past. I'm sorry you are so upset with your situation, but I addressed this with you once before some months ago.
You should know that sending me comments from an opposer means absolutely nothing. I'm not reading all of that. Are you obsessed with Bro. Grunbaum Sal? Move on with your life for goodness sake, this is getting a bit deranged.
Here's a couple scriptures to consider:
Prov. 10:12 "Hatred is what stirs up contentions, but love covers over even all transgressions."
Prov. 6:16-19 "There are six things that Jehovah does hate; yes, seven are things detestable to his soul:17 lofty eyes, a false tongue, and hands that are shedding innocent blood,18 a heart fabricating hurtful schemes, feet that are in a hurry to run to badness,19 a false witness that launches forth lies, and anyone sending forth contentions among brothers."
Unfounded claims and unfounded diagnosis' etc can make a person guilty of a false tongue, a false witness that launches forth lies, and anyone sending forth contentions among brothers.
For anyone to make a diagnosis as to someone being a Narcissist, then I take it they are Bro. Grunbaum's physician and can make a diagnosis of that type? That means they are around him on a daily basis and know everything about him and his personal life in person, not from a computer screen, or even telephone, to make that type of statement or diagnosis.
I understood your hatred for Bro. Grunbaum the other times, it's well noted.
Thank you and have a pleasant day Sal