Jehovah`s Witness/Im called an idiot again!


QUESTION: Hi Derrick hope you are keeping fine! Ive been called an idiot even though the guy spelled it wrong ! After I showed Grunbaum how Russell lied about the  measurements and left out the dimension s out of his book which he copied from Prof Smyth,s book to which he had no answers this gentlemen opened this post to Grunabaum calling me a idiot !

It seems like these folks never learn how to act in a real Christian manner ! Though my words are always firm, bold and straightforward I never call them any of these. Most JW I know are to proud to admit when there is ir was something wrong!

Heck we as Christians freely admit those errors and we condemn those who did it!

But we believe they will have to answer to God at judgement day .

It is clear to me that most JW like Grunbaum have never studied this subject re the Great pyramid well enough , he simply soft peddled it to another questioner so I took a bolder approach to deal with  share that is not to be viewed as lightly as they want to portray it since Jesus had to appoint them according the quality of food that was being fed between 1914 - 1918 !

Keep well


ANSWER: Good afternoon, Johan.  Yes, I saw where that character attempted to call you an "idiot", and I got a bit of a laugh when I noticed that he misspelled it.  You WOULD think that a person who calls someone else an "idiot", would at least know how to spell the word.  I can understand a typo, as I make those myself.  But the "i" and the "e", are not really close to each other, to be able to say that he just hit the wrong key.

But you know what, Brother?  Its like this....Their reaction only proves that your question hit a nerve.  Calling people "idiot", "dumb", "stupid", or whatever, does absolutely nothing in the way of refuting the person's argument or point.  And if a person feels the need to employ the use of these words as means of attacking a person, instead of just dealing with what the person said, then you know that is only because they don't have a real answer.  So, they attack and call names.  Yes, you and I see it for what it is....childish and immature.  

YOU:  "It seems like these folks never learn how to act in a real Christian manner ! Though my words are always firm, bold and straightforward I never call them any of these."

REPLY:  Yes, but you see, that is because you came with facts from their own literature, and their own history.  When you have the truth, you don't have to call names.  But the person who called you the name, on the other hand, had no facts to refute what you said, so he attacked you.

When they can't answer the fact you present, they call you an "idiot" for showing the fact.  Or, in the case of this intelligent Steve "ediot".

I mean, you could tell the guy was about to burst a blood vessel, by the way he typed his title in all caps...."YOUR APOSTATE-LIKE CRITICS ARE SO STUPID! LOL!!!"   I was thinking..."just chill, Dude."

But seriously, just read the guy's entire paragraph, and it doesn't take long to figure out how bright he is.  I wouldn't worry about this guy calling you an "ediot", Johan.  I just wouldn't.

But Johan, I have noticed a comment being made several times over the past several weeks, by JW experts, and I will use this opportunity to address it.

Basically, its their little game of "passing the buck", and blaming the churches for their blunders.  They think every time someone brings up their history of failures, they can sweep it under the rug with this..."Well uhm (cough, cough), we were still just coming out of the churches then, and we were still contaminated with their teachings....blah, blah, blah".

Oh really?  For this to be valid, they need to show us WHICH churches were teaching the same blunders that the Society made, if they want to use that as an excuse to blame us.  I would like to know which churches in "false christendom" were teaching the Pyramidolgy, since it was OUR fault.  There may have been a small Adventist sect here or there, because Russell DID borrow much of what he taught, from them.  But by and large, was pyramidology a teaching of the churches?

I noticed Grunbaum stated this...."I have no problem with BETH SARIM and I can see why it was believed using the poor King James to study and interpret scripture."

This was one of the all-time, most ridiculous statements I believe I have ever read on this board.  I have seen some funny ones, but this one takes the blue ribbon.

Not only is it the church's fault that the WT made all kinds of blunders, teaching things the churches DON'T EVEN TEACH, but is the King James Bible's fault, that Beth Sarim was built.  Amazing.

Well, I use the King James Bible...In fact, I use it EXCLUSIVELY, but I am not out building mansions for Old Testament princes to live in, who I think are coming back from the grave any day now.  I hate to tell him, but I have read through the King James Bible cover-to-cover numerous times, and the year 1925 is NOWHERE found there, nor is there a command to build a mansion if 1925 came and went, because they were going to be rising any day, and living in San Diego, California.

In addition, I have many friends in KJB churches all over the place, and know many ministers who also use and preach the KJB....And NOT ONE of them has ever arrived at the idea that we are supposed to be out building mansions in California, for Abraham to live in when he and the others come back from the dead.

So, I don't really think that one was the fault of the King James Bible.  

Normally, I say "good try"....But that wasn't even a "good try"...that was a joke.

Now, this is JW mentality at its finest....NEVER accepting personal responsibility, but always blaming someone else for the blunder, even if the churches they are blaming, weren't even TEACHING the blunder to begin with.  

That's about as brilliant as my stumping my toe on something that I myself left lying in the middle of the floor, and then blaming my wife who is across town at the time.

Besides, I thought they were supposed to be the "instrument" by which Jehovah God spoke?  Wasn't that the claim?  If Jehovah was really speaking these ridiculous predictions, then they would have come to pass.  They didn't.  And you know WHO'S fault that was?  Not the was the fault of THE PEOPLE who made the the case of Beth Sarim, the culprit was Judge Rutherford.  In the case of the pyramid GROWING in size, it was the fault of Charles Taze Russell....not the Baptist, Pentecostal, Methodist, or any other church!  

This isn't really rocket science.

Now, one final thing....Your point about the pyramid was EXCELLENT, and is a FACT of history.  He changed the supposed measurements, to make it line up with his NEW year, that he was trying to persuade people to accept.  Not only is that ridiculous, it is VERY dishonest to alter the measurements of the pyramid, just to make it "fit" the latest prediction.  I didn't know pyramids could grow, did you, Johan?

Funny, how these people are.  If one of US so much as types a poorly-worded sentence, they are all over that, with accusations of "lying", "deception", etc.  What hypocrisy.  Then, when they base a MAJOR teaching which ties right in with a FUNDAMENTAL date that they require people to accept, and they ALTER the facts to do it, they shrug their shoulders like its no big deal...hardly worth mentioning.  Then, they look at us when we point it out, like..."What's your problem?"

Johan, here is how you have to look at it....They are going to attack you.  When they do, rejoice.  You know you are doing something right.  If they start refuting you with solid facts, and act like loving Christians when they do it, then you might want to start getting worried.  But as long as all they do is go off the deep end, and call you an "ediot"....then you have nothing to worry about.

Since I have been here, I have become very familiar with the following verses of Scripture....

Matthew 5:11-12-  "Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.  

Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great [is] your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you."

NOTE:  And the very NEXT verse after verse 12, speaks of us as being "salt".  One thing salt does, is it stings badly, when poured into an open wound.  When you brought out the embarrassing fact about Russell altering the measurements of the pyramid, you poured salt into the wound.  That is why Steve screamed...."OOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWW!!"

Next Scripture to keep in mind....

1 Peter 4:14-16-  "If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy [are ye]; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.  

But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or [as] a thief, or [as] an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.  

Yet if [any man suffer] as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf."

So my advice....Just keep bringing the truth, and exposing the error.  You never know how many people read this forum, who are searching.  When you're attacked, just know they did it to Jesus, and His followers, and its no different today.

There has hardly been a religion that is more judgmental and mocking of other faiths, than the JW religion is.  But when you bring out THEIR error, be ready to be attacked.  In their mind, it doesn't work both ways.

Take care, Johan.  And may God bless.




---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thanks Derrick !

In his latest response he once again has no answers , he then turnes to Pr 4; 18 ! He like so many JW have never read the context of that chapter, much less can tell you what the context is speaking about so I will open a question to him re that chapter! Is he trying to convince the lies are getting brigther and brigther !

Have a great day


Yes, that verse of Scripture is the one that JWs use to sweep every single blunder under the rug.  Unfortunately, as you said, they don't know the context.  Actually, the context is a  wise father speaking to his son about the virtues of attaining wisdom, and heeding good instruction.  The path of the person who is wise and heeds instruction, is contrasted with the path of the one who refuses instruction, and instead, follows wickedness.

This verse is not an excuse for prophetic blunders, false predictions, or LYING about the measurements of the pyramid, just to make the size of the pyramid fit a particular teaching.  

Let's look at the passage....

Proverbs 4:18-  "But the path of the just [is] as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day."

Now, notice that it speaks of a "shining light" that shines MORE AND MORE....not blinks on and off.  JW doctrine has bounced back and forth on several points, and certainly does not resemble a light that is getting brighter.  In fact, "new light" should NEVER contradict "old light", or else the "old light" was never light to begin with.  New light should ADD TO the old light...but not contradict it.  

I believe a better verse than Prov. 4:18, to describe what we have seen from the Watchtower Society and its history, is found in Ephesians 4:14....

Ephesians 4:14-  "That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;"

Now, you just look at the doctrines of the Watchtower, and you tell me which Scripture describes their doctrinal changes best.

Now, as for your detractor named Steve, not much to say about him there.  Except that now we can safely assume that him calling you an "ediot" was NOT a typing error, since he did it once again.  I think we can now conclude that the guy just can't spell worth a flip, and has no business calling anybody else "ediot", or "dumb fool".  

I wouldn't even worry about that Dude.  His grammar, sentence structure, spelling, etc, all show that he really isn't capable of having intelligent dialogue.

Just keep doing what you are doing.  

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Derrick Holland


I was raised in the religion known as Jehovah`s Witnesses for 13 years. Since becoming a born-again Christian, I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history. I can answer questions about their doctrines from the perspective of Biblical Christianity. To be clear: Jehovahs Witnesses is the religion of my upbringing, though I myself was never baptized into the religion, nor have I ever been considered as a Jehovahs Witness.


29 years of Biblical research into the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, and how they differ from the teachings of the Watchtower.

I would advise each questioner to this forum, to carefully READ the profiles of the various volunteers. There are several such as myself, who are not practicing JWs, but will provide you with an accurate and honest answer, regarding JW teaching. If we don't know the answer, we will try to research and get it for you. There are also some excellent practicing JWs here, who also endeavor to give you a factual and honest answer, based on their point of view. I believe by getting both points of view, the questioner can weigh the evidence for themselves, and make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are also 3 here who claim to be JWs, but do NOT give honest, or well-researched answers. They will tell you only what they want you to believe, and they often hide facts about the history of their religion, as well as print untruths about other people's beliefs. This is done in an attempt to deceive the unsuspecting reader. It can be easily seen who these 3 are, simply by reading the public posts and "answers" which they write. Their posts will normally be filled with personal attacks, and if you question them about some teaching or aspect of the Watchtower that makes them uncomfortable, they will often reject your question, question your motives for asking it, tell you that you have been reading "apostate" sites, or turn the conversation into an attack on another expert. These ones are better avoided, as there is nothing to be gained by way of positive discussion, as they are not interested in intelligent conversation, or honest dialogue. If after reading the forum, you still have any questions as to who they are, just ask me, and I will be happy to tell you. And I can also provide documentation of their willful dishonesty. One thing is for a forum where people from both sides claim to be "Christians", there should never be any willful lying. Such ones only create a distraction in the forum, and provide nothing of any real value.

High School, some college. Studies of God's Word, the Bible, and how it compares to JW theology. I have found my own personal study and experiences to be far more valuable than any formal education or training. The Bible message is clear...Salvation is ONLY through and by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and no religious organization has a thing to do with it. While attendance at a Bible-preaching, Bible-believing church is a must for spiritual growth and fellowship, no church can grant salvation to its members. Nor is joining a particular group a prerequisite for being saved.

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