Jehovah`s Witness/Indefinite Atricle-Armeggedon-Plate of Demons
Hello again Brother Grunbuam. Lets get right to your last response to me in regards to List of Scholars- John 1:1
Me too You:
Why would you be at a loss? Why wouldn't anyone publicly admit this? Any Greek Scholar will tell you that there are no definite articles in the Greek. He will also tell you that although there is only one article in the Greek#definite#, there are 24 forms of it. Syntax is very important because the positions of words in the Greek can change a meaning tremendously. But, if they wont admit it, then so be it.
" No my point was GK scholars say the a CANT be inserted "
Brother Grunbaum, if what your are saying here is that the Greek scholars say the "a" can't be placed in John 1:1 and thereby rendered "a" god, as a Greek scholar I would agree# However, the rule does not say an indfinite article cannot be placedin "a" text#
Simply put, the abscence of a "definite article" does not justify the placement of an "indefinite article"# Context, word arrangement etc# would govern the placement of an indefinite article# Syntax#structure# is key in determining the placement of an indefinite article#I have already explained and given examples in previous responses#
Me too You:
Again, I am at a loss, even a little confused# What is it that doesn't add up? I do not accept the JW teachings, I accept the Bible Teachings, it just happens that the JW's believe in the same teachings# I unlike most, am not afraid to say the JWS are right###right about alot of things# But that is another conversation# But, lets review the example below:
Example: JWS teach that Jesus and Michael are the same# I do not believe in this doctrine or theology# However, the Seventh Day Adventists do believe it# In fact, they taught it long before the WTBS did# It should also be noted that it was from the Seventh Day Adventists that Russell got this teaching# So do we then say the JWS accept certain teachings of the Seventh Day Adventists?
Is that not somewhat of a contradiction ,you say you reject our teachings ,then say we have teachings you believe in ,sorry that is not scriptural ,the bible says:
#1 Corinthians 10:21# # # #YOU cannot be drinking the cup of Jehovah and the cup of demons; YOU cannot be partaking of “the table of Jehovah” and the table of demons ,
Reply: First, Is it a contradiction? Absolutely not! What is simply and clearly being said is that I accept Biblical Teachings# I do not accept teachings based on it comming from a particular organization, however you do# I base my acceptance on if it is Biblical and in agreement with the scriptures#
Intesting that you would say "contradiction" an say that I am eating from the table of demons#
Now, could we not say that the JWS are guilty of the same things? I gave the example of the Seventh Day adventists in my previous response for a reason#
You say I eat from the table of Demons because I am not a Jehovahs Witness and dont recieve my teachings from them# I understand, because you are taught to think this way# However, have you ever investigated where your doctrines and theologies come from?
Jesus is Michael: Source Seventh Day Adventists
1914- Source: Nelson Barbour# an Adventist# and others# Russell finally concluding 1914 as a Biblical Date#
1884,1935 1975 etc: This are failed dates, they were said to come from "spriti led" men# If these were "spirit led" men, would the dates then have been correct? For we see in scripture, that when the "Spirit" is invovled, it leads into Truth# This example is shown over and over again from the Old to the New Testaments# So what table were these men eating from?
Where in the Bible does it say there is a Jonadab Class? 2nd Kings? Jerimiah? Is this lineage really the Great Crowd?
Why do Witnesses look to the secular scholars, World Biblical Scholars etc etc, for confirmation? Are these not the demons who follow "False Religion"?
So let me try to understand this# A Witness is eating from Jehovahs table because he recieves his information from the FDS, who consults with the worldy scholars and read the worlds theological books, Bible Dictionaries etc etc for confirmation or agreement# The same FDS, having a kind of "papal authority" in that is only them that can interpret scripture and feed the flock etc etc# I could go on an on#
But, if a Witness studies other than material given him by the WTBS and thereby finds an incorrect teaching and refuses to abide by that teaching or speaks out against it, he then is an apostate and eating from the table of demons as the "false religons" do correct? Kind of Contradicting and Hypocritical wouldnt you say? I guess a Berean Class of people would be apostates huh?
You: As I'm sure you know the Heb na#e Har–Magedon, or Armageddon, means “Mountain of Megiddo#”
what evedently what you dont know there is not a geographical lo#ation in ancient or modern times called Mountain of Megiddo
So the symbolic book Revelation that is filled with figurative language, the term has symbolic meaning not literal
#Revelation 16:16# # # #And they gathered them together to the place that is called in Hebrew Har–Ma·ged´on#
There is no mountain at Megiddo in the middle east itself so this is symbolic of something else its more on a mound called Tell el-Mutesellim
Reply: First lets define Harmagedon:
Armageddon = "the hill or city of Megiddo"
1# In Rev. 16:16 the scene of a the struggle of good and evil is suggested by that battle plain of Esdraelon, which was famous for two great victories, of Barak over the Canaanites, and of Gideon over the Midianites; and for two great disasters, the deaths of Saul and Josiah. Hence in Revelation a place of great slaughter, the scene of a terrible retribution upon the wicked. The RSV translates the name as Har-Magedon, i.e. the hill #as Ar is the city# of Megiddo.
Armageddon #from Ancient Greek: Harmagedōn, Late Latin: Armagedōn# will be, according to the Book of Revelation, the site of a battle during the end times, variously interpreted as either a literal or symbolic location. The term is also used in a generic sense to refer to any end of the world scenario.
The word "Armageddon" appears only once in the Greek New Testament, in Revelation 16:16. The word may come from Hebrew har məgiddô #הר מגידו#, meaning "Mountain of Megiddo". "Mount" Megiddo is not actually a mountain, but a tell #a hill created by many generations of people living and rebuilding on the same spot# on which ancient forts were built to guard the Via Maris, an ancient trade route linking Egypt with the northern empires of Syria, Anatolia and Mesopotamia.
Megiddo #Hebrew; Arabic: Tell al-Mutesellim# is a tell in modern Israel near Kibbutz Megiddo, about 30km south-east of Haifa, known for its historical, geographical, and theological importance, especially under its Greek name Armageddon. In ancient times Megiddo was an important city-state. Excavations have unearthed 26 layers of ruins, indicating a long period of settlement. Megiddo is strategically located at the head of a pass through the Carmel Ridge overlooking the Jezreel Valley from the west.
So yes, you are correct in stating there is no "Mountain Meggido", but it never was considered a mountain, inspite of its name.
Now you as a believer that Israel was replaced by a "Spiritaul Israel" would be prevented by your theology and doctrine from seeing any importance of Modern Israel in prophecy. You as a JW and believing that this "Spiritual Israel" is of the JWS would relate all current and past events to the JWS and call it fulfillment of prophecy.
Example: In Russia, Jehovahs Witnesses are being attacked on all levels, even to the point that the Government on many occasions has tried to ban them. However,what is failed to be mentioned, is that ALL Non-Orthodox Religions#Catholic# are being persecuted there. The Witness view seems to be that their persecution is Biblical Prophecy and the others collateral damage so to speak.
Now I look at this differently. I see the persecution of the "religions" as being prophecy. Russia is still a Marxist country and its tenants are atheism. The Russian government has always persecuted "Chrisians", but has never persecuted what we would call occult religions.
I remember clearly like it was yesterday, although I cannot clearly remember the year,but it was late 70's, that our family was barbecuing in the backyard. Over the radio we heard the report the JWS were being imprisoned and beheaded for not accepting political cards in support of the government. The place? Malawi!
Later, I found out that Baptist and other missionaries in Malawi were suffering the same fate for not accepting or pledging support for the government there. These people died and were imprisoned not because of the organization that belonged too, but for their witness of Christ. For their standing on what the Bible says and not caving in to the governments of the world.
Its funny, I have searched and searched the internet, and cannot find anywhere this report. The world and its leader#satan# has truely hidden this from the eyes of people. As a side note, Brother Grunbaum, if you or the society has any information on this, can you please forward it too me?
Point is, the Bible clearly teaches that "anyone" standing in witness of Christ will suffer persecution for his name sake!
New King James Version #NKJV#
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another.
As always..it is most enjoyable discussing with you. Please if you dont mind check into the information about Malawi. If you do not feel you should forward it too me, then please post the information so all can see. It is a moment in our history that should never be forgotten.
Rev. Darryl Murphy
What is it you want to know about Malawi,you didn't say except :
I have searched and searched the internet, and cannot find anywhere this report
Its clear you believe the non-theocratic nation of Israel is in NT prophecy.
So to believe that then you dont believe Jesus founded the Christian Church at Pentecost,but you will come back and say yes you believe that,so that being the case then why was there a need to form another way of worship since Israel had the Temple at Jerusalem ,I assume as a bible scholar you understand then the reason is Israel was rejected since they murdered Jesus and rejected him as the King.
But these facts you still believe the fleshly nation is the Israel in the NT not what began at Pentecost.
Its comes down to just rejecting JWs doctrine is the real reason ,to accept spiritual Israel is to reject the teachings of Christendom ,you really have no choice but to believe the non-theocratic nation of Israel is in NT prophecy,notwithstanding they reject the very book of NT prophecies that somehow they will as a nation convert and say Jesus did come and he was the Messiah ,reject the billions of dollars of aid from the US,dismantle its weapons and purchase thousands of bibles with the NT.
Sorry ,not going to happnen
Notice this passage:
(Isaiah 2:2-3# . . .And it must occur in the final part of the days [that] the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, and it will certainly be lifted up above the hills; and to it all the nations must stream. 3 And many peoples will certainly go and say: “Come, YOU people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, and we will walk in his paths.” For out of Zion law will go forth, and the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem.. . .
We agree we are in the final days,the last days etc,so this prophey must be about the nation of Israel but in reality in Jerusalem today, where the temple was formerly located there is no house of the God of Jacob last time I checked there is an Islamic shrine there.
Also last time I checked there is no move on the part of Israel or its neighbors to “beat their swords into plowshares.” They depend for survival on a military and the United States.
So this verse must be concerning Spiritual Israel.
#Jeremiah 31:31-32# . . .“Look! There are days coming,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “and I will conclude with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant; 32 not one like the covenant that I concluded with their forefathers. . .
Why would there be a need for a new covenant instead of what he gave Moses,Jesus nailed the old covenant on MT Calvary ,he established a new covenant not with the nation of natural Israel, but with the followers of Jesus at Pentecost.
So its New Jerusalem.why the expression New ,since the city in the middle is has Jerusalem ,so it cant be that city:
#Hebrews 12:22) . . .But YOU have approached a Mount Zion and a city of [the] living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels,
But you know all of this and yet you are forced into believing God still is dealing with this terrorist nation.
You have no choice,it just demonstrate how Demonic teachings mislead even one who is a bible scholar.