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Jehovah`s Witness/What does the WT you quoted from 1911..?


QUESTION: Grunbauam

What does the WT of 1911 you quoted from has do with deliberately lying to folks about the lengths of the Great pyramid and telling folks the Devils stone is God,s stone witness!

Oh and when they wrote that article in 1911 did all JW partake of the memorial ?

What part of the WT claimed Russel was fed by the previous FDS who happens to run from one century after the other since the 1st century dont you understand?

Lastly can you demostrate from the CONTEXT of Proverbs 4 that it speaks about :


2)Prophecies in the Bible?

ANSWER: First of all Johan I give you credit for at least showing courage to come back again,I thought we seen the last of our resident Cult Expert with my last rebuttal of your "quality of food " argument,so since you didn't refute my references I take it you would rather move on to another point of contention by raising other points,nah ,not so fast you started this and raised questions as to our doctrine for which the WATTS foundation is built on so I'm not going to let you go that easy by just not responding.Iam going to teach you not to come up against a solid foundation ,you need to pick your opponents more better than this.Iam sure you read my profile so you knew I'm out for spiritual blood and you slay your spirit,your doctrine ,your beliefs and leave you spiritually dead.Yet you climbed in to the ring with me any way,how stupid.

In a way of a reminder to the readers  you said:

"Jesus came to make an inspection between 1914 to 1918! CURRENTLY they say Jesus had to make a DECISION on the QUALITY OF THE FOOD , THE RIGHT KIND OF FOOD being fed by the slave between those years !

So Grunbaum we go to the the years 1914 - 1918 and we check what was :



Before Jesus could render a decision !





That was the quality of food, the right kind of food betweeen 1914 - 1918  Jesus supossely looked at and appointed them above all his belongings."

So basically you were saying we were disqualifiedto care for the spiritual needs of Jesus followers,you didn't give us who was ,just that we were not.

My response was:

"Our understanding"

That is the point of the light of truth that the scriptures say gets lighter and lighter:,

Lets look at a non witness translation on this text:

New International Version

The path of the righteous is like the first gleam of dawn, shining ever brighter till the full light of day.

Would this suggest the path of the brothers in the 1800s coming from the blackness of the Churches would be bright from the start,remember who is talking here ,its God.

What you call an outright lie to make dates fit I call a revision of a better understanding

Cult expert:


Jesus came to make an inspection between 1914 to 1918! CURRENTLY they say Jesus had to make a DECISION on the QUALITY OF THE FOOD , THE RIGHT KIND OF FOOD being fed by the slave between those years !

Before the inspecting of the Zions Watchtower did the King not inspect all religions or just the Zions Watchtower  

The text says:

(Matthew 24:45) . . .Who really is the faithful and discreet slave . . .

What does that suggest that it would be in the form of a question :

(1 Corinthians 4:2) . . .Besides, in this case, what is looked for in stewards . . .
or house managers

(1 Corinthians 4:2) . . .man to be found faithful. . .

(Hebrews 3:5) . . .And Moses as an attendant was faithful in all the house . . .

So the King was looking for the slave who was above all faithful,thats what it says first
then he says discreet or who was showing discernment or good judgment in conduct

Who then is a faithful and wise

So these are the qualities he was looking at first ,so in other words he was looking for the faithful chef who demonstrated wisdom at the time of his inspection,in terms of what he was feeding at the time was still meat ,the quality of the meat was not the determine factor of being appointed to care for his house it clearly says

(Matthew 24:45) . . .Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics. . .

So once he found the chef that he would select to fed his house he himself would give attention to the quality of the food that was served.

The Message:
Who here qualifies for the job of overseeing the kitchen? A person the Master can depend on to feed the workers on time each day

lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

Young's Literal
to give them the nourishment in season

Holman Christian
food at the proper time?

So the quality of the food was not what he was more concerned with than who would be in his kitchen

A chef had to be selected first then he would provide the menue

I dont think I need to go into what the chefs in the  Churches of the realm of preaching Jesus world wide were doing in the years mentioned to qualify for the oversight of his spiritual kitchen
I think you are well aware what Christendom was doing,suffice to say they didn't prove faithful it had nothing to do with the quality of the meat they served ,they didn't demonstrate good judgment to be appointed the chef to feed his followers.,

Now you show me otherwise in the years between 1914 to 1918 during World War I when Jesus inspection of the Churches world wide proved faithful,I would like to see it

So I would like you to address this,my second request now. So now you come with a new thread thinking I would forget the first one,I noticed you only addressed one comment:

"What does the WT of 1911 you quoted from has do with deliberately lying to folks about the lengths of the Great pyramid and telling folks the Devils stone is God,s stone witness"

I was showing that the context was "understanding" obviously it was not the correct one at that time.

"Lastly can you demostrate from the CONTEXT of Proverbs 4 that it speaks about :


2)Prophecies in the Bible?"

Lets look at the text it in terms "understanding" not a path

But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

But the understanding  of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

This is the scripture we use when asked why we come to a different understanding of a scripture.

The light of understanding was not that bright at the start because earlier its said:

I have taught thee in the way of wisdom; I have led thee in right paths.

But that path of understanding was dim and as time passed became brighter

Holman Christian Standard :
The path of the righteous is like the light of dawn,
shining brighter and brighter until midday.

The light of dawn is not that bright so its clear what God is saying about the path of understanding doctrine and prophecies.


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: So Grunbaum !

Where IN  the CONTEXT again let me repeat CONTEXT of Proverbs 4 does it  speak about:



CONTEXT is not your friend it never will be !

I can just as well insert LIES in the text with the  way you use it

And say :  

The light of lies was not  bright at the start as  time passed and it became brighter seeing that Russell lied about the measurements , mind you not once but twice  !

Now before  I respond any further and quote WT after WT to show that you are not agreement with them let me ask you this ?

Is it youre understanding that God exist or is your believe from reading the Bible that he exist and therefore you UNDERSTAND  it to be true ?

Is it your understanding that Jesus parousia was in 1914  or do you believe God Words say so and therefore your UNDERSTANDING that it is true ?

Can you tell folks if it is possible to separate your understanding from your believe?

Now we are going to make this a very long thread until hopefully it will sunk

ANSWER: So you will respond to my questions then I take it,I dont have to repete the ones again I think you by now know which ones.

"Is it youre understanding that God exist or is your believe from reading the Bible that he exist and therefore you UNDERSTAND  it to be true "

I know evil spirits exist for sure because before becoming a JW I had direct communication ,logically if evil spirits are real then there must be a good spirit,I had never read the bible.

Is it your understanding that Jesus parousia was in 1914  or do you believe God Words say so and therefore your UNDERSTANDING that it is true ?

Jesus in response to when he Kingdom would be established clearly pointed to World War I and history proved that was 1914

Can you tell folks if it is possible to separate your understanding from your believe?

Understanding comes from Gods prophet the slave,only they can interpret scripture ,ones belief comes from the slaves understanding ,every religious belief has its own interpretation on whatever holy book they believe in ,every religion claim they are the truth ,everyone who believe in that religion believe its the truth ,obviously with all the thousands of religious roads they all cant be true,it stands to reason that if there is one God then he would have one belief,one prophet and only one way.

With the many mazes of religions today its like a seeker of truth at a carnival a circus like atmosphere with every religion represented and as you pass each one they all wave for you to come to them saying they are the truth.

That is not how one finds Jehovah,Jehovah himself finds the person and chooses him,I was chosen directly by God ,I didn't need to go to a religious Circus and randomly choose one out of the thousands of beliefs.

"Can you tell folks if it is possible to separate your understanding from your believe"

Ill let each one answer for themselves,I can only tell what my understanding is.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: You keep failing to show me that the context of Pr 4 speaks about

1)Understanding ...of Bible teachings

2)Understanding ...of Bible prophecies found in the Bible  

How come ?

The context of Pr 4 speaks about Fathers instruction or advice re a righteous son as opposed to the unrighteous one gaining wisdom or understanding re his CONDUCT and what happens if he does so and what happens if he does not !

Now lets see Grunbuam if CONTEXT is my friend?

Verses  1 - 4


Hear o sons the instruction of a a father,and give attention that you may gain understanding  !For I give you sound teaching ,Do not abandon my instruction .When I was a son to my father.Then he taught me and said to me .Let your heart hold fast to my words .Keep my commandments and live.Acquire wisdom acquire understanding !

Verses 6- 10


Love her (wisdom) and she will watch over you. Prize her(wisdom) and she will exalt you.She (wisdom) will honor you if you embrace her

Verses  11 - 14


And the years of your life will be many.I have led you in upright paths.When you walk your steps will not be impeded.And if you run you will not stumble .

Verses 14 - 15


Do not enter the path of the wicked.And do not proceed in the way of evil men.Turn away from it !

Verses 16 - 19


For they cannot sleep unless they do evil, and they are robbed of sleep unless they make someone stumble.And they eat the bread of wickedness and drink the wine of violence.


The path of the righteous is like the light of dawn that shines brighter and brighter until the full day


The way of the wicked is like darkness they do not know what make them stumble

Verses 20 - 24


My son give attention to my instructions
For they are life to those that find them
And health to all their body
Watch the path of your feet
And all your ways will be established

As I said Grunbaum context is a friend of mine never of a JW since the context shows the the Fathers instruction to apply wisdom and understanding re HIS CONDUCT and what happens between the unrighteous who obey and righteous who dont obey!

Furthermore you said :

Understanding comes from God,s prophet the slave, only they can INTERPRET scripture...

But the bad news Grunbaum is:

The WTS has made it very ,very , very clear !!!


The claim of any individual or organization to be the interpreter of God,s sacred word is false or misleading .No individual or organization or individual can truly presume to sit as the tribunal of interpretaion of God,s sacred word ! WT July 1 1943 P. 202


This does not signify that the Society or Faithful remanat of Jehovahs Witness are an earthly tribunal APPOINTED TO INTERPRET  His SCRIPTURES and PROPHECIES .P.203


Cause God is the sole interpreter of the scriptures and the prophecies in the Bible as the Supreme court!


They have said they are NOT appointed to INTERPRET  either the sacred word of God or his prophecies since God and God alone does it !

What they have said is that God only use the to do what??


Christ Jesus has not entrusted that office to them ,The supreme court still interprets , thank God and Christ Jesus the courts official mouthpiece reserves to Himself that right as head of Jehovahs FDS?

He merely uses the FDS to PUBLISH THE INTERPRETATION after Christ Jesus reveals it! July 1 1943 P. 198 and p. 203

Now again Jesus came to make an inspection , they claim Jehovah himself interprets the prophecies and and his scared by merely using the FDS to reveal it after the supreme courts mouthpiece Jesus revealed it to them via his angles!

Yet we are told Jesus came to make an inspection as if somehow him and His Father did not know what was going around here on planet earth and he found Russell using the great pyramid even lying about its inches supossely as meat in due season from God and he appoints them.

It might make sense to you but not to millions of people !

Your answer re evil spirits does not make sense at all either, thaough Ill take it them that you agree that you cannot separate your believe from your understanding !

An interpreter is one who explains Bible prophecy by giving others the meaning, significance, and understanding of prophetic dreams, visions, and messages of divine origin.

For YOU know this first, that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation.

He was not considering the application, meaning or interpretation of previously written prophecies. The context shows that he was discussing the surety of the prophetic word, why Christians can depend upon it.

Allow me to copy how we arrive at our teachings:

Do Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that their religion is the only right one?

The Bible does not agree with the modern view that there are many acceptable ways to worship God. Ephesians 4:5 says there is “one Lord, one faith.” Jesus stated: “Narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it. . . . Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.”—Matt. 7:13, 14, 21; see also 1 Corinthians 1:10.

Repeatedly the Scriptures refer to the body of true Christian teachings as “the truth,” and Christianity is spoken of as “the way of the truth.” (1 Tim. 3:15; 2 John 1; 2 Pet. 2:2) Because Jehovah’s Witnesses base all of their beliefs, their standards for conduct, and organizational procedures on the Bible, their faith in the Bible itself as God’s Word gives them the conviction that what they have is indeed the truth. So their position is not egotistical but demonstrates their confidence that the Bible is the right standard against which to measure one’s religion. They are not self-centered but are eager to share their beliefs with others.

Do not other religions also follow the Bible?

Many use it to some extent. But do they really teach and practice what it contains? Consider: (1) From most of their Bible translations they have removed the name of the true God thousands of times. (2) The Trinity doctrine, their concept of God himself, is borrowed from pagan sources and was developed in its present form centuries after Bible writing was completed. (3) Their belief in immortality of the human soul as the basis for continued life is not taken from the Bible; it has roots in ancient Babylon. (4) The theme of Jesus’ preaching was the Kingdom of God, and he sent his disciples out to talk personally to others about it; but the churches today seldom mention that Kingdom and their members are not doing the work of preaching “this good news of the kingdom.” (Matt. 24:14) (5) Jesus said that his true followers could be readily identified by their self-sacrificing love for one another. Is that true of the religions of Christendom when the nations go to war? (6) The Bible says that Christ’s disciples would be no part of the world, and it warns that whoever wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God; but the churches of Christendom and their members are deeply involved in the political affairs of the nations. (Jas. 4:4) In view of such a record, can it honestly be said that they really adhere to the Bible?

How do Jehovah’s Witnesses arrive at their explanation of the Bible?

A key factor is that the Witnesses really believe that the Bible is God’s Word and that what it contains is there for our instruction. (2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Rom. 15:4; 1 Cor. 10:11) So they do not resort to philosophical arguments to evade its clear statements of truth or to justify the way of life of people who have abandoned its moral standards.

In pointing out the meaning of symbolic language in the Bible, they let the Bible provide its own explanation, instead of giving their theories as to its significance. (1 Cor. 2:13) Indications as to the meaning of symbolic terms are usually found in other parts of the Bible. (As an example, see Revelation 21:1; then, regarding the meaning of “sea,” read Isaiah 57:20. To identify “the Lamb” referred to in Revelation 14:1, see John 1:29 and 1 Peter 1:19.)

As for fulfillment of prophecy, they apply what Jesus said about being alert to events that correspond to what was foretold. (Luke 21:29-31; compare 2 Peter 1:16-19.) Conscientiously they point out those events and draw attention to what the Bible indicates they mean.

Jesus said that he would have on earth a “faithful and discreet slave” (his anointed followers viewed as a group), through which agency he would provide spiritual food to those making up the household of faith. (Matt. 24:45-47) Jehovah’s Witnesses recognize that arrangement. As was true of first-century Christians, they look to the governing body of that “slave” class to resolve difficult questions—not on the basis of human wisdom, but by drawing on their knowledge of God’s Word and his dealings with his servants, and with the help of God’s spirit, for which they earnestly pray.—Acts 15:1-29; 16:4, 5.

Why have there been changes over the years in the teachings of Jehovah’s Witnesses?

The Bible shows that Jehovah enables his servants to understand his purpose in a progressive manner. (Prov. 4:18; John 16:12) Thus, the prophets who were divinely inspired to write portions of the Bible did not understand the meaning of everything that they wrote. (Dan. 12:8, 9; 1 Pet. 1:10-12) The apostles of Jesus Christ realized that there was much they did not understand in their time. (Acts 1:6, 7; 1 Cor. 13:9-12) The Bible shows that there would be a great increase in knowledge of the truth during “the time of the end.” (Dan. 12:4) Increased knowledge often requires adjustments in one’s thinking. Jehovah’s Witnesses are willing humbly to make such adjustments.

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