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Jehovah`s Witness/Our discussion continued- You dont get it

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Hello Sister T; I see again there is a long response to my response. So I guess we can get right down to it.

You: "I guess this will just keep going on and on, because we'll never, ever agree. "

Sister T guess what, you are wrong! We have already agreed on many things, you just don't see it and what you do see, you wont admit. Let me give you some examples:

1. We have already agreed to disagree.
2. Every Doctrine that we both accept or reject is a point of our agreement...such as  rejecting the Trinity.

Now to take it a step further you also agree with Chrisendom on many points. Example: You Agree with the Seventh Day Adventists on the Doctrine of Michael being Jesus; The Nature of the Holy Spirit; The Doctrine of Hell not being a place of torment..and a few others.

The fact of the matter is we agree on many things, but because I am not a witnesses, you can't admit that you agree. You will dodge the admittance at any cost and invoke Justification Doctrine to make me look like one who is wavering and all over the place and you as the one who is stable and on solid foundation.


You: Well you just contradicted yourself, because if you are a Baptist Reverend, and you don't even believe your own religious doctrine, you just proved my point right there, not united.

All that this means is that I don't agree with the Trinity doctrine of the Baptists. Nothing more. We remain United In Faith. Something that is very different than Doctrine Sister T.


You: But let's go a little further, just a little, not a lot.  You make the broadest assumptions ever, you say since I have very little knowledge of what really is going on in the Church that I do not know this.  WRONG!  Do you know me personally Reverend Darryl Murphy?  I can answer that, No.  So then for you to assume, because that's all you really can do, what I know is a bit much, don't you agree?  How do you know what I know?  Please, please I'd love to hear this one....do share.


Ok Siter T, I will share. First a few questions. How long have you been a Wintess? How many Baptist Councils have you attended? When was the last time you have been to a Baptist Church?

Sister T, as a witness you will only have information provided to you by the WTBS. You will only research according to that information. You will not be privilaged to any information that will inform you of outcomes concerning issues in the Baptist Church. You also will not attend any of the council meetings of the Baptists etc.

That is how I know you have little knowledge of what is going on Sister T. Pther than articles you may read, you wont know much more.

You: As I stated being all over the world does not denote being UNITED all over the world, if it did, you wouldn't have the Baptist World alliance and the Southern Baptist.  The Southern Baptist would not have wanted to separate from the BWA if doctrinal views were all in unity, but because of the disunity, with the BWA being blamed for their liberalism inregards to doctrinal things, such as tolerance of Homosexuality, among a few other things.  You are an example of my very point Sir.

Let me see if I can make this plain for you. The so called Baptists that have adopted tolerance to Homosexuality, Woman Pastors and other things, are no longer considered Baptists. Churches, that allow such things drop the "Baptist" title and become either non denominational, or what is called "Full Gospel". Those that choose to keep the title 'Baptists" are no longer recognized and do not fellowship with other Baptist Churches. The main reason for keeping the title Baptist is soley because of the form of Baptist Government, which is Congregationalist.

What has happened with the Baptist Church happens with the Witnesses. You have brothers(although you no longer recognize them as such) in the European Countries, especially Russia, who broke away from the WTBS but continue to call themeselves Jehovahs Witnesses. It has been that way since 1942. However the WTBS does not recognize them as Witnesses because the do not fully accept the doctrines of the WTBS.

You: And is why I said you were all over the place with what you believe.  And how do you know that I don't know Baptist who do not believe in the Trinity?  I do know of some and is why I said what I said.  You yourself said you didn't, so out of your own mouth you prove me right, which also shows not being in union, not being of one mind set.  Oh and by the way, just a side note.  My paternal grandfather was a Baptist Preacher....so no, let's not get in it.  Actually I will not get into it.  That's all I will say.

First, I agee, your Grandfather is not part of this conversation so that will not be discussed. But I will say, having a Baptist Preacher in the family would only expose you to the doctrine and certain issues.

Now there is a difference between a Baptist with non-trinatarian belief, and there being a non-trinitarian Baptist Church. As I said, there are no non-trinitarian Baptist Churches.

Now this may come as a surprise to you. There are many Witnesses that do not accept all the JW Doctrine. They remain silent because they know the consequences of speaking out. Some leave, but others stay in hopes that the WTBS will change things. I talk with ones such as this all the time. Guess what Sister T, I always encourage them to stay.


You: Example:  If I say the moon orbits the earth, and you come back and say, You're wrong.  Does it mean anything?  Nope....so just because you keep saying I'm wrong, doesn't mean anything because I was not wrong.  Which I showed.


Sister T, I am sure in your mind you have shown yourself correct. However the proofs show you wrong. I cant help that you dont see it, just know others do.


You: "There's false teachings in your religion, some of which you don't even agree with, so proving my point once again. God is a God not of disorder (1Cor 14:33)  He also said we must worship in TRUTH, (John 4:23,24)  So if what your denomination is teaching is not Scriptural then it's not worshipping in truth, so any worship of said denomination as a whole, the worship is in untruth."

Guess what we agree again...However only partially. Yes,  there are doctines in the Baptist religion that are questionable, some that are not scriptural. This also exists with JWS. However, this has been proven over and over again by the changing of your doctrines. There are still doctrines that are incorrect, but you believe in all of them. You believe they are all certain truth. What then will you say if the doctrine changes, lets say next year? Wait, I already know. You will do as the Witnesses have always done. You will say its "New Light".

So Sister T, lets do this. You state further in your writing to me, that we must worship God in Truth. You are absolutely correct. So lets see how much Truth you are willing to admit too.

1. Were all the dates that JWS predicted Failures?
2. Did not the WTBS say they were Biblical Truths from God? Be careful answering this Sister T, I have personal experience with this.
3. If they were failures, were they not doctrines of men?

Now I know part of your argument will be new light. So knowing this, let us handle that part now. If there is New Light, then there must be old light correct? Now the purpose of light is to see. So if the purpose of light is to see, no matter if the light is old or new, you would see. So then the only question how much can be seen with the light we have.

Now if the New Light proves that all that was seen before was "false", then it could only mean that it wasnt seen in the first place. If it wasnt seen, then that could only mean that all of it came from "darkness", in this case, the "darkness" or "blackness" of the JWS.

So if it came from "darkness" then it is not true, and because it is not true, then it cannot be said, that the worship was in "Truth".  This is by your own logic.

Lets make it simple...New Light means new understanding or furhter understaning. If something proved to be false, then there was no understanding.

So look back at all the dates, they were doctrine and taught and spread to the masses via publications as truths. Were the JWS worshiping in "Truth"? Is 1914 a scriptural "Truth"?

You: And the moral of this story is, when Armageddon comes and Jesus is doing his destruction work, will Jesus recognize you?   

I know he will recognize me. How about you? The scriptures tell us how we can know if he will recognize us. Do you know what passage of scripture that is? Now, Im not a betting man, but if I were, I would place all my money on no. The reason is, you would apply that scripture to others.

Sister T, I was going to respond item by item until read this:

You: I also know of people who because a tragedy struck and they could not pay their Church dues was kicked out until they could pay...those people ended up becoming JW's though, and never looked back.  What faith were they?  Baptist.  

Sister T...No offense..but this is a lie!!!!

1. Baptists dont pay Church Dues, it is called Tithes.
2. You cannot be kicked out of a Baptist Church for not paying Tithes. There are many ways to pay Tithes other than monetary.

If they were put out of the Church it would only be because of a serious offense. If thats the Testimony they gave, then you need check the character of the person(s).

I'm done Sister T, I really enjoyed you inspite of our differences...but you went a little too far with that one.

Good Day Sister T

Rev. Darryl Murphy

Rev. Darryl Murphy

Answer
Hello Rev. Darryl Murphy,

You are back again disputing and calling me wrong and saying I'm an out right liar, even though you don't know me or know anything about me or anyone I know.  That's a very broad statement to make and I'm glad you are done, because so am I....I see that your real self assuming and haughtiness (2 Tim 3:1-2) is showing and causing you to speak very foolishly.  I am no longer interested in replying to you, so whatever you say in your follow up, because I'm pretty sure it will eat at you not to, will be rejected. I'm not saying that I am always correct, I make mistakes, I may have a wrong understanding about something, but one thing I do know and that is Jehovah's Witnesses are the one true Religion and I'm very happy in Jehovah's service and if it be God's will, I will remain in such forever!  

OK, let's get started here...  

You said that I'm wrong because I said we will not ever agree because we already agreed to disagree, and we agreed about not believing in the Trinity etc...  

See that's what is very foolish on your part, it's common sense that I was referring to the things that we disagreed about.  As you are still disagreeing about them now.  So why would you bring up about things that you agree with us on?  In fact, you keep saying we agree with Seven Adventists,and others, etc...

The fact is we (JW's) agree with what is laid out in the pages of the Bible.  So if other people or religions agree with what the Bible says, then that is not that we agree with them, it's about what's laid out in the Bible, because that's where we get our Truth from, it's from God as the Bible is the Word of God! But make no mistake, partial belief is like 'almost being done with your homework' as I explained previously.  It doesn't really count.

The fact is you do not know these facts, I have no problem admitting we agree that according to the Bible the Trinity doctrine is false.  So yes, we agree to that, I have never said I will not admit to agree with you or anyone else because you are not a Witness.  That's you saying that. I only spoke of the things we DID NOT agree on, and I would think that a Scholar such as yourself would be able to pick up on that, but I guess not...You say we are a cult and sect and we say we are not, thus we disagreed about that, and some other things.

You said: "Ok Siter T, I will share. First a few questions. How long have you been a Wintess? How many Baptist Councils have you attended? When was the last time you have been to a Baptist Church?

Sister T, as a witness you will only have information provided to you by the WTBS. You will only research according to that information. You will not be privilaged to any information that will inform you of outcomes concerning issues in the Baptist Church. You also will not attend any of the council meetings of the Baptists etc.

That is how I know you have little knowledge of what is going on Sister T. Pther than articles you may read, you wont know much more.


First off I do not divulge my personal information on a public forum.  So it's none of your business how long I've been a JW, or any other personal information about myself.  That still doesn't prove that you can speak for what I know and do not know.  And you say I only have information provided to me by the WTBS....how do you know what information I have?  You do not know me, once again, so it's very foolish to speak with authority on matters you know not!  

As I said before, I'm not interested in the teachings of demons, because I already know that the Baptist faith as a whole does not teach the truth from the pages of the Bible, and that's all I need to know because that's all that is important.  Does it teach Bible truths?  If the answer is NO, then I'm not interested.  I don't have to attend a council meeting of the Baptists to know what your faith teaches, let's not get too foolish now.

OK that's fine that those ones were removed from being a Baptist...again...it still doesn't prove that you are united the World over because you teach and believe differently within your own Baptist faith.

You said: "Now this may come as a surprise to you. There are many Witnesses that do not accept all the JW Doctrine. They remain silent because they know the consequences of speaking out. Some leave, but others stay in hopes that the WTBS will change things. I talk with ones such as this all the time. Guess what Sister T, I always encourage them to stay."

You are very funny, Sir, like I said you are all over the place, you encourage these ones to stay do you, while at the same time you subtly kick dirt in our eyes. (2 Cor. 11:14,15; Acts 16:16-18) What makes you think that is a surprise to me, did I not show you the Scripture about ones who have left because they were not of our sort?  The scriptures speak of the great apostasy.  (1 John 2:19; 2 Thes 2:3)

Didn't Jesus himself say that the weeds would come up with the wheat, (Matt 13:30) so why would that be a surprise that some did/do not stay, agree, or understand.  Plus the TRUE ones who may not understand something sure isn't going to go to you, only weak faithless ones will do that, but the TRUE ones will wait on Jehovah, (Lam. 3:26; Micah 7:7; Ps. 130:5-7; Titus 2:13; James 5:7) because as Jesus' apostles said to him when people left off following him, 'whom should we go away to?'(John 6:52-69). There's no truth in any other religion in this world.  And the Bible clearly says that Jehovah has a people, not a person, for his name (Acts 15:14).

The apostles may not have fully understood what Jesus meant when he said what he said about eating his flesh and drinking his blood, but they waited because they knew he had the sayings
of everlasting life:

John 6:68,69 "Simon Peter answered him: ďLord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life; 69 and we have believed and come to know that you are the Holy One of God."

So your supposed super shocker statement that was, I'm guessing, suppose to surprise me ended up failing miserably Sir.

In regards to your statements about the failed prophecies, again, did I not explain to you that because JW's have made mistakes in the past doesn't mean that the basic Bible truths have been wrong.  There is no hellfire...there is no immortal soul that never dies.....just like Jesus isn't God, those things are not true either.  So as Peter said to Jesus in John 6:68, true JW's say the same, if an incorrect understanding about a prophecy has been said it still doesn't change the facts that the Churches teach their followers those things that are not true.  We believe the truth as laid out in the Bible.  Now if you refuse to accept that then you don't have to, 1914 was not incorrect, just because you don't want to believe it.  

40 years prior to 1914 we said it would bring big trouble and guess what 1914 saw the first World War, not Continent War, not Tribesmen War, but WORLD War.  World War I did not happen in 1913, and World War I did not happen in 1915, but in 1914!  Unless you really want to say that World War I didn't happen in 1914.

So in 1914 the world saw big trouble did it not?  No matter how bad you want that to not be the case, it is the case!  You not agreeing means nothing, just like I said with the moon orbit example!


You said: "I know he will recognize me. How about you? The scriptures tell us how we can know if he will recognize us. Do you know what passage of scripture that is? Now, Im not a betting man, but if I were, I would place all my money on no. The reason is, you would apply that scripture to others."

Well first off there are many Scriptures that help us to see if we are going to be recognized or not, now I am not a mind reader and I don't try to tell other people what they know and do not know, so there is no way I could know the exact Scripture you have in mind.  But at any rate, JW's actually apply the Scriptures of what God requires to our own selves, so you are wrong once again in your incorrect self-assuming haughtiness.

I'll list a few, it may not be the one you had in mind though.

Matt 7:16-20 "Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits ​YOU​ will recognize those [men]."

Matt 12:33 "ďEither ​YOU​ people make the tree fine and its fruit fine or make the tree rotten and its fruit rotten; for by its fruit the tree is known."

Matt 7:21 ďNot everyone saying to me, ĎLord, Lord,í will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will."

John 13:34-35 "I am giving ​YOU​ a new commandment, that ​YOU​ love one another; just as I have loved ​YOU, that ​YOU​ also love one another. 35 By this all will know that ​YOU​ are my disciples, if ​YOU​ have love among yourselves.Ē

Romans 2:13 "For the hearers of law are not the ones righteous before God, but the doers of law will be declared righteous."

James 1:22-24, "However, become doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves with false reasoning. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word, and not a doer, this one is like a man looking at his natural face in a mirror. 24 For he looks at himself, and off he goes and immediately forgets what sort of man he is."

James 1:27 The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world."

1 John 5:1-4  "Everyone believing that Jesus is the Christ has been born from God, and everyone who loves the one that caused to be born loves him who has been born from that one.2 By this we gain the knowledge that we are loving the children of God, when we are loving God and doing his commandments. 3 For this is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome,4 because everything that has been born from God conquers the world. And this is the conquest that has conquered the world, our faith."

1 John 5:9-12 "If we receive the witness men give, the witness God gives is greater, because this is the witness God gives, the fact that he has borne witness concerning his Son.10The [person] putting his faith in the Son of God has the witness given in his own case. The [person] not having faith in God has made him a liar, because he has not put his faith in the witness given, which God as witness has given concerning his Son.11And this is the witness given, that God gave us everlasting life, and this life is in his Son.12He that has the Son has this life; he that does not have the Son of God does not have this life."

2 Tim 2:19 "For all that, the solid foundation of God stays standing, having this seal: ďJehovah knows those who belong to him,Ē and: ďLet everyone naming the name of Jehovah renounce unrighteousness."

Ps.15:1-5 "O Jehovah, who will be a guest in your tent? Who will reside in your holy mountain? 2 He who is walking faultlessly and practicing righteousness And speaking the truth in his heart. 3 He has not slandered with his tongue. To his companion he has done nothing bad, And no reproach has he taken up against his intimate acquaintance. 4 In his eyes anyone contemptible is certainly rejected, But those fearing Jehovah he honors. He has sworn to what is bad [for himself], and yet he does not alter. 5 His money he has not given out on interest, And a bribe against the innocent one he has not taken. He that is doing these things will never be made to totter."


True worshippers respect the Bible as Godís Word. They strive to live by its principles. So true religion differs from religion that is based on menís ideas. (Matt. 15:7-9) True worshippers do not preach one thing and practice another. (John 17:17; 2 Tim. 3:16,17)

Jesusí true followers honor Godís name, Jehovah. Jesus honored Godís name by making it known. He helped people to know God and taught them to pray that Godís name be sanctified. (Matt 6:9) Which religion makes Godís name known? (John 17:26; Romans 10:13,14)

True Christians preach about Godís Kingdom. God sent Jesus to preach the good news of the Kingdom. Godís Kingdom is the only hope for mankind. Jesus continued speaking about it until his dying day. (Luke 4:43; 8:1; 23:42,43) He said that his followers would preach about it. If someone approaches you to speak about Godís Kingdom, to which religion does he likely belong? (Matthew 24:14)

Jesusí followers are no part of this wicked world. You can recognize them by the way they take no part in politics or social conflicts. (John 17:16; 18:36) Also, they do not imitate the worldís harmful practices and attitudes. (James 4:4)

True Christians have outstanding love for one another. From Godís Word, they learn to respect all ethnic groups. Although false religions have often strongly supported the wars of the nations, true worshippers refuse to do so. (Micah 4:1-3) Rather, true Christians unselfishly use their time and resources to help and encourage others. (John 13:34,35; 1 John 4:20)

Can you identify the true religion?  I can!!  

Which religion bases all its teachings on Godís Word, honors Godís name, and proclaims Godís Kingdom as mankindís only hope? Which group practices love and shuns war? What do you think? (1 John 3:10-12).

The answer is Jehovah's Witnesses!!  

Now here is one that says you will not:

Rev. 18:4,8 "4 And I heard another voice out of heaven say: ďGet out of her, my people, if YOU do not want to share with her in her sins, and if YOU do not want to receive part of her plagues. 5 For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind." 8 That is why in one day her plagues will come, death and mourning and famine, and she will be completely burned with fire, because Jehovah God, who judged her, is strong."

You are among Babylon the Great and unless you "get out of her" then you WILL share with her in her sins and you WILL "receive part of her plagues"  Regardless if you believe it or not.

Now there are many more Scriptures in both areas, but that's enough.


Last but not least you say this:

Sister T...No offense..but this is a lie!!!!

1. Baptists dont pay Church Dues, it is called Tithes.
2. You cannot be kicked out of a Baptist Church for not paying Tithes. There are many ways to pay Tithes other than monetary.

If they were put out of the Church it would only be because of a serious offense. If thats the Testimony they gave, then you need check the character of the person(s).



Once again there you go assuming and not only assuming but saying I'm lying or the people who it happened to is lying.  If I made a mistake by saying dues, when it should have been tithes, then I apologize.  Let's just say MONEY....

What I said was in fact TRUE, I will not divulge why I know it was true except to say that you do not know what went on because you were not there, and you can't speak on it.  Now what you should have said was if that is what happened then it should not have been that way because this is the process... but instead you in your haughtiness assume I or they just outright lied.

Sorry I'm not...The people were actually told to not return to their Church until they could pay...Now if that was not the way they do, as you say, it's what that particular Baptist Church did, aren't a lot of Baptist Churches considered independent?  I may be wrong, but at any rate, I'm sorry you think this is a lie, but I assure you it is not!  

I have no reason to make up such a lie.  A lot of JW's who become JW's have a reason why they became one, most don't set out to be such, Jehovah draws people. (John 6:44). They didn't even set out to become JW's, it just so happened that a couple of days after this happened and they were so disillusioned by it, JW's showed up at their doorstep...the rest is history!

I don't need to make up anything, first off you are coming to me, it's not even like I'm at your door knocking and showing you scriptures etc, you wrote to me and in our conversing, I let you know about some facts that I personally know about.  There is no justification for you saying that I or they were lying, or even saying that the people involved must need a character check, because I am not lying.  If you don't want to believe that then don't.  It still doesn't change that it happened, and it still doesn't change that you can't speak on it because YOU DO NOT KNOW...so in light of that, you would have made yourself look a bit better if you would have just said this is not the norm or this should not have occurred.  But at any rate, it did and it's a fact!  I think you went a little too far with your assumptions.

So Sir, since you say you are done, then I hope you are not lying...be done!


Have a Wonderful Day Reverend Darryl Murphy,


Sister T

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Sister T

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I can answer questions related to Jehovah's Witnesses and the Bible. I love learning the truth from the Bible and helping others to learn that truth as well. I don't know everything but will answer from the Bible, I like to use illustrations as well to help a person relate to what is being said. The Bible has the last say so over any person.

Experience

I am an active baptized Jehovah's Witness and Jehovah is Almighty God,(Ps. 83:18) and his Son Jesus Christ died so that everyone exercising faith in him may not be destroyed but have everlasting life. (John 3:16). I support my fellow Witnesses on this board who are real, and Jehovah's worldwide visible organization, including the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. As God is not a God of disorder, and there could not be order if there were not ones to take the lead. Taking the lead and having a leader is not the same, our leader is Jesus Christ, and in order to have unity and order, there has to be arrangements in place. As the first century Christians had, there were men taking the lead, (Acts 6:1-6) as with Moses, (Exodus 18:21) and in our day, in following with Bible truths, we do the same. When people twist that around to us worshiping men, it is just a straight out lie! Why would the Scripture at 1 Tim. 3:1-10, 12, 13 give the criteria for men reaching out for an office of overseer if that was not meant to be? (Phil 1:1, Acts 20:17, 28, Eph. 4:11, 12, 2 Cor. 3:4-6). If we were not supposed to have men who take the lead, why was this scripture penned? James 5:14-15 "Is there anyone sick among YOU? Let him call the older men of the congregation to [him], and let them pray over him, greasing [him] with oil in the name of Jehovah. 15 And the prayer of faith will make the indisposed one well, and Jehovah will raise him up. Also, if he has committed sins, it will be forgiven him."

Organizations
If you have legit questions and want to know the truth, please ask, but if you are here to spread your lies and twists of the scriptures or get your falsehoods out, you may get rejected! The truth is from the Bible, if what you say does not harmonize with the Bible then what you say is wrong! Context and other scriptures help determine scriptures that may stump us, let scripture interpret scripture. The Bible does not contradict itself, so if what you are being taught or if what you are teaching makes it seem like the Bible is contradictory, remember it's not the Bible it's the man-made teaching! Doctrines of men! Mark 7:6, 7 "He said to them: ďIsaiah aptly prophesied about YOU hypocrites, as it is written, ĎThis people honor me with [their] lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. 7 It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach as doctrines commands of men." (also Romans 10:2, 3)

Education/Credentials
Matthew 24:14 says "And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come." We are doing that today, we are living in times of Bible Prophecy and as a Jehovah's Witness, we have the privilege to be apart of a prophecy spoken by Jesus himself! The good news of the Kingdom. Ask yourself, what kingdom? then read Daniel 2:44! It's a real government. Take heed now! Listening to men over God will mean your life.(Prov 3:5,6, Ps. 146:3) A lie will never become truth, No matter how long or how many people say it or speak it. Learn what the Bible really teaches, seek out Jehovah's ways, serving God in truth is only acceptable to him,(John 4:23, 24) you can not be serving God acceptably if what you believe is a lie! Pray for understanding and ask Jehovah to search your heart and draw you! (John 6:44, 65) Now is the time to be with the people who are called by Jehovah's name! (Acts 15:14, 17, Isa. 43:7, 10, Zech 8:23)

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