Jehovah`s Witness/Hello


QUESTION: Hello sir Brent

Thank you for the last reply.

Can you provide me the last FOLLOW-UP answer you've made for Mr. Ven?

I'm just being quitely intrigue with his argument on such matter (Proverbs 8)

Thank you

ANSWER: Hello ^_^

I have only had two discution with Ven. The first link I gave you was his first set of questions to me with my reply and his followup.  I then cut and pasted my follow up response to Ven for you.  SO far that is all the conversation I have had with Ven as he has not asked anymore.  So if there is something in that material in particular that you have questions  for please ask

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thank you for the permission sir

Now I'm goin to take this for granted :-)

Can I have your TAKE on this argument from him?


"You also quote 1 Corinthians 1:24, 30 where I believe you try to show that here Jesus is the wisdom of Proverbs 8, but look also, in the passage Jesus is being referred to as “the power of God”. This must set the alarms bells off for that would make Jesus, according to your theology, the Holy Spirit...or wait, in 1 Cor. 1:18 the gospel is described as the ‘power of God”, but that doesn’t mean the gospel and Jesus are one and the same thing. We are told elsewhere that Jesus sits at the right hand of “the power of God” (Luke 22:69), but how can Jesus sit at the right hand of Himself?

In Ephesians 3:10 we learn that there is a variety in God’s wisdom; “…to the end that now to the governments and the authorities in the heavenly places there might be made known through the congregation the GREAT DIVERSIFIED wisdom of God” (NWT). This shows, among other things that it is speculation to use 1 Corinthians 1 to try to prove that in the book of Proverbs 8 “wisdom” is a reference to Jesus. I hope that you are able to understand this, let me know if you don’t."

Thank you

Hello ^_^

Sorry for the delay.

I can see what Ven found confusing in what I wrote.  Our understanding of the holy spirit is that it is Gods “active force”.  Sometimes in certain contexts the Gods spirit is associated with power, for example  Romans 15:13,19 says “ 13 May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope.... 19  by the power of signs and wonders, by the power of the Holy Spirit , so that from Jerusalem and as far round as Illyricum I have fully preached the gospel of Christ,”

Ven correctly points out that Jesus is sitting “at the right hand of the power of God” (Luke 22:69 ) So he raised a valid question, how can Jesus be the power of God and yet sit “at the right hand of the power of God”, especially when we say that Jesus is not God  

First we should define power here are some of the definitions from

Take note of definitions 7 and 9

1 ability to do or act; capability of doing or accomplishing something.
2 political or national strength: the balance of power in Europe.
3 great or marked ability to do or act; strength; might; force.
4 the possession of control or command over others; authority; ascendancy: power over mens minds
5 political ascendancy or control in the government of a country,state, etc.: They attained power by over throwing the leagal government
6 legal ability, capacity, or authority: the power of attorney.
7 delegated authority; authority granted to a person or persons in a particular office or capacity: the powers of the president.
8 A document or written statement conferring legal authority.
9 a person or thing that possesses or exercises authority or influence.
10  a state or nation having international authority or influence: The great powers held an international conference.
11 a military or naval force: The Spanish Armada was a mighty power.
12 Often, powers. A deity; divinity: the heavenly powers.
13 powers, Theology . An order of angels.

In line with points 7 and 9 we see Jesus was able to give power to those he sent out to preach Luke 9:1 “And he called the twelve together and gave them power and authority over all demons and to cure diseases,” I hope that I can demonstrate that in line with that principle Jesus was given power from God, the things that he did and taught were a result of what God gave him.

In the book of Isaiah we learn that Jehovah give power to tired ones that faithfully follow him   “He gives power to<u/> the faint, and to him who has no might he increases strength.”  Isaiah 40:29 (RSV)

Paul in his letter to the Philippians says that he his given power  “I have strength for anything through Him who gives me power.” Philippians 4:13 (Weymouth Version)

Just as us humans can be given power form God, he gave power to his son

What led up to the words of Paul to the Corinthinas?

The Jews viewed a dying Messiah as a weak nothing. The Greek philosophers scoffed at such a Messiah as foolishness. Nevertheless, it is as Paul proclaimed: “Both the Jews ask for signs and the Greeks look for wisdom; but we preach Christ impaled, to the Jews a cause for stumbling but to the nations foolishness; however, to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. Because a foolish thing of God is wiser than men, and a weak thing of God is stronger than men.” (1 Corinthians 1:22-25 ) Christ Jesus is a manifestation of God’s power and wisdom and is God’s means of righteousness and everlasting life for obedient mankind. “There is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.”—Acts 4:12 .

In looking for information I came across 2 articles that deal specifically with Jesus being called “the power of God”, and I know you like a lot of detail so I decided to copy those articles as they cover a lot of information.  The texts quoted are from the NWT

Article 1

”Christ the Power of God”
THE disciples were terrified. They were sailing across the Sea of Galilee when a storm suddenly descended upon them. No doubt they had seen storms on this lake before—after all, some of the men were experienced fishermen. (Matthew 4:18, 19) But this was “a great violent wind-storm,” and it quickly churned the sea into a wet fury. The men worked frantically to steer the vessel, but the storm was overpowering. Surging waves were “dashing into the boat,” which began filling with water. Despite the commotion, Jesus was fast asleep in the stern, exhausted after a day of teaching the crowds. Fearing for their lives, the disciples woke him up, pleading: “Lord, save us, we are about to perish!”—Mark 4:35-38; Matthew 8:23-25.

2 Jesus was not afraid. With complete confidence, he rebuked the wind and the sea: “Hush! Be quiet!” Immediately, the wind and the sea obeyed—the tempest ceased, the waves disappeared into stillness, and “a great calm set in.” An unusual fear now gripped the disciples. “Who really is this?” they murmured to one another. Indeed, what kind of man could rebuke the wind and the sea as if correcting an unruly child?—Mark 4:39-41; Matthew 8:26, 27.

3 But Jesus was no ordinary man. Jehovah’s power was displayed toward him and through him in extraordinary ways. The inspired apostle Paul could rightly refer to him as “Christ the power of God.” (1 Corinthians 1:24) In what ways is God’s power manifested in Jesus? And what bearing can Jesus’ use of power have on our life?

The Power of God’s Only-Begotten Son

4 Consider the power that Jesus had during his prehuman existence. Jehovah exercised his own “eternal power” when he created his only-begotten Son, who came to be known as Jesus Christ. (Romans 1:20; Colossians 1:15) Thereafter, Jehovah delegated tremendous power and authority to this Son, assigning him to carry out His creative purposes. Concerning the Son, the Bible says: “All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.”—John 1:3.

5 We can but barely perceive the magnitude of that assignment. Imagine the power needed to bring into existence millions of mighty angels, the physical universe with its billions of galaxies, and the earth with its abundant variety of life. To accomplish those tasks, the only-begotten Son had at his disposal the most powerful force in the universe—God’s holy spirit. This Son found great pleasure in being the Master Worker, whom Jehovah used in creating all other things.—Proverbs 8:22-31.

6 Could the only-begotten Son receive even more power and authority? Following Jesus’ death on earth and his resurrection, he said: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.” (Matthew 28:18) Yes, Jesus has been granted the ability and the right to exercise power universally. As “King of kings and Lord of lords,” he has been authorized to bring to “nothing all government and all authority and power”—visible and invisible—that stand in opposition to his Father. (Revelation 19:16; 1 Corinthians 15:24-26) God has “left nothing that is not subject to” Jesus—that is, with the exception of Jehovah himself.—Hebrews 2:8; 1 Corinthians 15:27.

7 Do we need to worry that Jesus might misuse his power? Absolutely not! Jesus really loves his Father and would never do anything to displease him. (John 8:29; 14:31) Jesus well knows that Jehovah never misuses his almighty power. Jesus has observed firsthand that Jehovah searches for opportunities “to show his strength in behalf of those whose heart is complete toward him.” (2 Chronicles 16:9) Indeed, Jesus shares his Father’s love for mankind, so we can trust that Jesus will always use his power for good. (John 13:1) Jesus has established a flawless record in this regard. Let us consider the power he had while on earth and how he was moved to use it.

“Powerful in . . . Word”

8 Evidently, Jesus performed no miracles when he was a boy growing up in Nazareth. But that changed after he was baptized in 29 C.E., at about 30 years of age. (Luke 3:21-23) The Bible tells us: “God anointed him with holy spirit and power , and he went through the land doing good and healing all those oppressed by the Devil.” (Acts 10:38) “Doing good”—does that not indicate that Jesus used his power aright? After his anointing, he “became a prophet powerful in work and word. ”—Luke 24:19.

9 How was Jesus powerful in word? He often taught in the open air—on lake shores and hillsides as well as on the streets and in marketplaces. (Mark 6:53-56; Luke 5:1-3; 13:26) His listeners could simply walk away if his words did not hold their interest. In the era before printed books, appreciative listeners had to carry his words in their mind and heart. So Jesus’ teaching needed to be thoroughly arresting, plainly understood, and easily remembered. But this challenge posed no problem for Jesus. Consider, for example, his Sermon on the Mount.

10 One morning early in 31 C.E., a crowd gathered on a hillside near the Sea of Galilee. Some had come from Judea and Jerusalem, 60 to 70 miles [100 to 110 km] away. Others had come from the sea coast area of Tyre and Sidon, to the north. Many sick people drew close to Jesus to touch him, and he healed them all. When there was not even one seriously ill person left among them, he began to teach. (Luke 6:17-19) When he finished speaking some time later, they were amazed by what they had heard. Why?

11 Years later, one who had heard that sermon wrote: “The crowds were astounded at his way of teaching; for he was teaching them as a person having authority.” (Matthew 7:28, 29) Jesus spoke with a power they could feel. He spoke for God and backed up his teaching with the authority of God’s Word. (John 7:16) Jesus’ statements were clear, his exhortations persuasive, and his arguments irrefutable. His words got to the heart of issues as well as to the hearts of his listeners. He taught them how to find happiness, how to pray, how to seek God’s Kingdom, and how to build for a secure future. (Matthew 5:3–7:27) His words awakened the hearts of those hungering for truth and righteousness. Such ones were willing to “disown” themselves and abandon everything in order to follow him. (Matthew 16:24; Luke 5:10, 11) What a testimony to the power of Jesus’ words!

“Powerful in Work”

12 Jesus was also “powerful in work.” (Luke 24:19) The Gospels report over 30 specific miracles performed by him—all in “Jehovah’s power.” (Luke 5:17) Jesus’ miracles touched the lives of thousands. Just two miracles—the feeding of 5,000 men and later 4,000 men “besides women and young children”—involved crowds probably totaling some 20,000 people!—Matthew 14:13-21; 15:32-38.

13 There was great diversity in Jesus’ miracles. He had authority over demons, expelling them with ease. (Luke 9:37-43) He had power over physical elements, turning water into wine. (John 2:1-11) To the amazement of his disciples, he walked on the windswept Sea of Galilee. (John 6:18, 19) He had mastery over disease, curing organic defects, chronic illness, and life-threatening sickness. (Mark 3:1-5; John 4:46-54) He performed such healings in various ways. Some were healed from a distance, whereas others felt Jesus’ personal touch. (Matthew 8:2, 3, 5-13) Some were healed instantly, others gradually.—Mark 8:22-25; Luke 8:43, 44.

14 Outstandingly, Jesus had the power to undo death. On three recorded occasions, he raised the dead, giving a 12-year-old daughter back to her parents, an only child to his widowed mother, and a beloved brother to his sisters. (Luke 7:11-15; 8:49-56; John 11:38-44) No circumstance proved too formidable. He raised the 12-year-old girl from her deathbed shortly after she died. He resurrected the widow’s son from the funeral bier, no doubt on the day of his death. And he raised Lazarus from the burial tomb after he had been dead for four days.

Unselfish, Responsible, and Considerate Use of Power

15 Can you imagine the potential for abuse if Jesus’ power were placed in the hands of an imperfect ruler? But Jesus was sinless. (1 Peter 2:22) He refused to be tainted by the selfishness, ambition, and greed that drive imperfect men to use their power to hurt others.

16 Jesus was unselfish in the use of his power, never employing it for personal gain. When he was hungry, he refused to turn stones into bread for himself. (Matthew 4:1-4) His meager possessions were evidence that he did not profit materially from the use of his power. (Matthew 8:20) There is further proof that his powerful works sprang from unselfish motives. When he performed miracles, he did so at some cost to himself. When he cured the sick, power went out of him. He was sensitive to this outflow of power, even in the case of just one cure. (Mark 5:25-34) Yet, he let crowds of people touch him, and they were healed. (Luke 6:19) What a selfless spirit!

17 Jesus was responsible in the use of his power. Never did he perform powerful works for mere showy display or purposeless theatrics. (Matthew 4:5-7) He was unwilling to perform signs merely to satisfy Herod’s wrongly motivated curiosity. (Luke 23:8, 9) Far from advertising his power, Jesus often instructed those whom he healed not to tell anyone. (Mark 5:43; 7:36) He did not want people to reach conclusions about him on the basis of sensational reports.—Matthew 12:15-19.

18 This powerful man, Jesus, was nothing like those rulers who have wielded power in callous disregard for the needs and suffering of others. Jesus cared about people. The mere sight of the afflicted touched him so deeply that he was motivated to relieve their suffering. (Matthew 14:14) He was considerate of their feelings and needs, and this tender concern influenced the way he used his power. A moving example is found at Mark 7:31-37.

19 On this occasion, great crowds found Jesus and brought to him many who were sick, and he cured them all. (Matthew 15:29, 30) But Jesus singled out one man for special consideration. The man was deaf and hardly able to talk. Jesus may have sensed this man’s particular nervousness or embarrassment. Thoughtfully, Jesus took the man aside—away from the crowd—to a private place. Then Jesus used some signs to convey to the man what he was about to do. He “put his fingers into the man’s ears and, after spitting, he touched his tongue.” (Mark 7:33) Next, Jesus looked up to heaven and uttered a prayerful sigh. These actions would say to the man, ‘What I am about to do for you is due to power from God.’ Finally, Jesus said: “Be opened.” (Mark 7:34) At that, the man’s hearing was restored, and he was able to speak normally.

20 How touching to think that even when using his God-given power to heal the afflicted, Jesus showed a sympathetic regard for their feelings! Is it not reassuring to know that Jehovah has placed the Messianic Kingdom in the hands of such a caring, considerate Ruler?

A Portent of Things to Come

21 The powerful works that Jesus performed on earth were just foregleams of even grander blessings to come under his kingly rule. In God’s new world, Jesus will once again work miracles—but on a global scale! Consider some of the thrilling prospects ahead.

22 Jesus will restore the earth’s ecology to perfect balance. Recall that he demonstrated control of natural forces by calming a windstorm. Surely, then, under Christ’s Kingdom rule, mankind will have no need to fear being harmed by typhoons, earthquakes, volcanoes, or other natural disasters. Since Jesus is the Master Worker, whom Jehovah used to create the earth and all life on it, he fully understands the makeup of the earth. He knows how to use its resources properly. Under his rule, this entire earth will be turned into Paradise.—Luke 23:43.

23 What about mankind’s needs? Jesus’ ability to feed thousands bountifully, using only a few meager provisions, assures us that his rule will bring freedom from hunger. Indeed, an abundance of food, distributed fairly, will end hunger forever. (Psalm 72:16) His mastery over sickness and disease tells us that sick, blind, deaf, maimed, and lame people will be healed—completely and permanently. (Isaiah 33:24; 35:5, 6) His ability to resurrect the dead ensures that his mightiness as a heavenly King includes the power to resurrect the countless millions whom his Father is pleased to remember.—John 5:28, 29.

24 As we reflect on the power of Jesus, let us keep in mind that this Son perfectly imitates his Father. (John 14:9) Jesus’ use of power thus gives us a clear picture of how Jehovah uses power. For example, think about the tender way that Jesus healed a certain leper. Moved with pity, Jesus touched the man and said: “I want to.” (Mark 1:40-42) By means of accounts such as this, Jehovah is, in effect, saying, ‘That is how I use my power!’ Are you not moved to praise our almighty God and give thanks that he uses his power in such a loving way?

Sudden storms are common to the Sea of Galilee. Because of the sea’s low elevation (some 700 feet [200 m] below sea level), the air is much warmer there than in the surrounding area, and this creates atmospheric disturbances. Strong winds rush down the Jordan Valley from Mount Hermon, situated to the north. The calm of one moment may well yield to the raging storm of the next.

In addition, the Gospels at times group many miracles under a single, general description. For example, on one occasion a “whole city” came to see him, and he cured “many” sick ones.—Mark 1:32-34.

Spitting was a means or sign of healing accepted by both Jews and Gentiles, and the use of saliva in cures is reported in rabbinic writings. Jesus may have spit simply to convey to the man that he was about to be healed. Whatever the case, Jesus was not using his saliva as a natural healing agent.

End quote

Here is the second article

“Christ the Power of God.” From Jesus’ miraculous birth forward, God’s power was displayed toward and through him as never before. Like the psalmist, he became “just like a miracle to many people.” (Ps 71:7) Jesus and his disciples, like Isaiah and his children, were “as signs and as miracles in Israel from Jehovah of armies,” portending the future and revealing God’s purpose. (Isa 8:18; Heb 2:13; compare Lu 2:10-14.) In Jesus, God’s powerful workings during thousands of years now found fulfillment, came to fruition. Rightly the apostle could speak of Jesus as “the power of God and the wisdom of God.”—1Co 1:24.

Jesus proved to be the long-awaited Messiah, Jehovah’s Anointed One, foretold to manifest the ‘spirit of mightiness.’ (Isa 11:1-5) As such, it could be expected that he would have powerful testimony to support that fact. (Mic 5:2-5; compare Joh 7:31.) Already by means of Jesus’ birth from a virgin Jewess, God had begun testifying on his Son’s behalf. (Lu 1:35-37) This birth was not simply a spectacular display of divine power but served very definite purposes. It provided a perfect human, a ‘second Adam,’ one who could sanctify his Father’s name, erase the reproach the first human son had brought on that name, and thereby give the lie to Satan’s challenge; moreover, the perfect Jesus would provide a legal basis for ransoming obedient mankind from the grip of Kings Sin and Death. (1Co 15:45-47; Heb 2:14, 15; Ro 5:18-21; ) And this perfect descendant of David would be the heir to an everlasting Kingdom.—Lu 1:31-33.

Jesus’ anointing by God’s spirit was accompanied by divine power. (Ac 10:38) Moses was “powerful in his words and deeds.” As ‘the prophet greater than Moses,’ Jesus had credentials that were proportionately greater. (De 34:10-12; Ac 7:22; Lu 24:19; Joh 6:14) Rightly he ‘taught with authority.’ (Mt 7:28, 29) Thus, even as God gave cause for faith in Moses, Joshua, and others, he now gave sound basis for faith in his Son. (Mt 11:2-6; Joh 6:29) Jesus took no credit for himself, constantly acknowledging God as the Source of his powerful works. (Joh 5:19, 26; 7:28, 29; 9:3, 4; 14:10) Honest persons recognized “the majestic power of God” manifested through him.—Lu 9:43; 19:37; Joh 3:2; 9:28-33; compare Lu 1:68; 7:16.

What did the miracles of Jesus portend?

What Jesus did gave proof of God’s interest in mankind, evidence of what God would eventually do for all loving righteousness. Jesus’ powerful works were largely related to mankind’s problems, first and most basic among which is that of sin, with all its damaging effects. Sickness and death are concomitants of sin, and Jesus’ ability to heal sickness of all kinds (Mt 8:14, 15; Lu 6:19; 17:11-14; 8:43-48) and even to resurrect the dead (Mt 9:23-25; Lu 7:14, 15; Joh 11:39-44) gave proof that he was God’s appointed means for freeing mankind from sin and its penalty. (Compare Mr 2:5-12.) Far superior to the manna Israel ate in the wilderness, Jesus was “the true bread from heaven,” “the bread of life.” (Joh 6:31-35, 48-51) He brought, not literal water from a rock, but “living water,” the ‘water of life.’—Joh 7:37, 38; Re 22:17; compare Joh 4:13, 14

His powerful works were also portents of other blessings due to come by his kingly rule. Whereas Elisha had fed 100 men with only 20 loaves and some grain, Jesus fed thousands with far less. (2Ki 4:42-44; Mt 14:19-21; 15:32-38) Moses and Elisha had made bitter or poisoned water sweet. Jesus converted ordinary water into fine wine to contribute to the relaxing enjoyment of a marriage feast. (Ex 15:22-25; 2Ki 2:21, 22; Joh 2:1-11) His rule therefore would certainly bring freedom from hunger to all of his subjects, bring a pleasant ‘banquet for all peoples.’ (Isa 25:6) His ability to make men’s work abundantly productive, as with regard to his disciples’ fishing efforts, assured that, under his Kingdom’s blessing, men would not be reduced to barely eking out a living at a mere subsistence level.—Lu 5:4-9; compare Joh 21:3-7.

More important, these things were all related to spiritual matters. As Jesus brought spiritual sight, speech, and health to the spiritually blind, dumb, and ailing, he also brought and assured the enjoyment of spiritual food and drink in abundance and guaranteed the productiveness of his disciples’ ministry. (Compare Lu 5:10, 11; Joh 6:35, 36.) His miraculously satisfying people’s physical needs on certain occasions was primarily to strengthen faith. Such things were never the end in themselves. (Compare Joh 6:25-27.) The Kingdom and God’s righteousness, not food and drink, were to be sought first. (Mt 6:31-33) Jesus set the example in this by his refusal to change stones into bread for himself.—Mt 4:1-3.

Spiritual liberation. The nation of Israel had known mighty warriors, but God’s power through his Son was aimed at greater enemies than mere human militarists. Jesus was the Liberator (Lu 1:69-74) providing the way to freedom from the chief source of oppression, Satan and his demons. (Heb 2:14, 15) Not only did Jesus personally free many from demonic obsession (Lu 4:33-36) but by his powerful words of truth he opened wide the gates to freedom for those wishing to cast off the oppressive burdens and slavery that false religion had imposed on them. (Mt 23:4; Lu 4:18; Joh 8:31, 32) By his own faithful, integrity-keeping course he conquered, not just a city or an empire, but “the world.”—Joh 14:30; 16:33.

Relative importance of miraculous acts. Although Jesus laid principal stress on the truths he proclaimed, he nevertheless showed the relative importance of his powerful works, regularly calling attention to them as authenticating his commission and message. Their importance lay particularly in their fulfillment of prophecy. (Joh 5:36-39, 46, 47; 10:24-27, 31-38; 14:11; 20:27-29) Those seeing such works came under special responsibility. (Mt 11:20-24; Joh 15:24) As Peter later told the crowds at Pentecost, Jesus was “a man publicly shown by God to you through powerful works and portents and signs that God did through him in your midst, just as you yourselves know.” (Ac 2:22) These evidences of divine power showed that God’s Kingdom had “overtaken” them.—Mt 12:28, 31, 32.

By God’s significant use of his Son, the ‘reasonings of many hearts were uncovered.’ (Lu 2:34, 35) They were seeing ‘the arm of Jehovah’ manifested, but many, the majority, preferred to read some other meaning into the events beheld or to allow selfish interests to keep them from acting in harmony with the ‘sign’ seen. (Joh 12:37-43; 11:45-48) Many wanted personal benefits from God’s power but were not sincerely hungering for truth and righteousness. Their hearts were not moved by the compassion and kindness that motivated so many of Jesus’ powerful works (compare Lu 1:78; Mt 9:35, 36; 15:32-37; 20:34; Mr 1:40, 41; Lu 7:11-15; with Lu 14:1-6; Mr 3:1-6), which compassion reflected that of his Father.—Mr 5:18, 19.
Responsible use of power. Jesus’ use of power was always responsible, never done for mere display. The cursing of the barren fig tree evidently had symbolic meaning. (Mr 11:12-14; compare Mt 7:19, 20; 21:42, 43; Lu 13:6-9.) Jesus refused to engage in purposeless theatrics as suggested by Satan. When he walked over water, it was because he was going somewhere with no transportation at hand at that late hour, something quite different from jumping off a temple battlement like a potential suicide. (Mt 4:5-7; Mr 6:45-50) The wrongly motivated curiosity of Herod was left unsatisfied when Jesus refused to put on any performance for him. (Lu 23:8) Jesus earlier refused to cause “a sign from heaven” at the request of Pharisees and Sadducees, evidently because they sought such, not to strengthen their faith in the fulfillment of God’s Word, but to obviate the need of such faith. Their motive was bad.—Mt 16:1-4; compare 15:1-6; 22:23, 29.

Similarly, the lack of faith in Nazareth kept him from performing many powerful works there, certainly not because his source of power was insufficient but because the circumstances did not warrant it, did not allow for it. Divine power was not to be wasted on unreceptive skeptics. (Mr 6:1-6; compare Mt 10:14; Lu 16:29-31.) That the faith of others was not an absolute essential for Jesus to perform miraculous acts can be seen in his healing the severed ear of the high priest’s slave, part of the crowd that came to arrest Jesus.—Lu 22:50, 51.

The resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead to spirit life was the greatest demonstration ever of God’s power. Without it, Christian faith would be “in vain,” his followers would be “of all men most to be pitied.” (1Co 15:12-19) It was the act most consistently recounted by Jesus’ disciples and the greatest single factor in strengthening faith. Distance had not hindered Jesus’ exercise of power when on earth (Mt 8:5-13; Joh 4:46-53), and now, from his heavenly position, Jesus anointed his followers with God’s spirit on Pentecost, enabling them to do powerful works in his absence. He thereby authenticated their testimony concerning his resurrection (Ac 4:33; Heb 2:3, 4) and also gave proof that these were God’s approved people, his congregation.—Ac 2:1-4, 14-36, 43; 3:11-18.

The death of his Son as a human had not shortened Jehovah’s hand, as the many miracles, signs, and portents performed by the apostles and others testified. (Ac 4:29, 30; 6:8; 14:3; 19:11, 12) The powerful works they performed were like those of their Master, healing the lame (Ac 3:1-9; 14:8-10) and ill (Ac 5:12-16; 28:7-9), raising the dead (Ac 9:36-41; 20:9-11), casting out demons (Ac 8:6, 7; 16:16-18), doing so without seeking personal benefit or honor for themselves. (Ac 3:12; 8:9-24; 13:15-17) Through them God expressed judgments against wrongdoers, even as he had done through the earlier prophets, fostering due respect toward himself and his representatives. (Ac 5:1-11; 13:8-12) New abilities were granted them, such as the ability to speak in foreign languages and interpret them. This, too, was for “a beneficial purpose,” for they were soon to extend the preaching work beyond Israel, telling Jehovah’s wonderful works among the nations.—1Co 12:4-11; Ps 96:3, 7.

Jehovah God did other powerful things as well, opening up ‘doors’ of opportunity for them to preach in certain territories, protecting them against those who would shut down their ministerial work, directing their activity, doing so in ways generally unobserved by the public.—Ac 5:17-20; 8:26-29, 39, 40; 9:1-8; 10:19-22, 44-48; 12:6-11; 13:2; 16:6-10, 25-33; 18:9, 10; 1Co 16:8, 9.

It was foretold that miraculous abilities granted by the spirit to the apostles, and passed on by them to others, would last only during the ‘infancy’ of the Christian congregation, thereafter ending. (1Co 13:8-11; see GIFTS FROM GOD [Gifts of the Spirit].) M’Clintock and Strong’s Cyclopaedia (Vol. VI, p. 320) says that it is “an uncontested statement that during the first hundred years after the death of the apostles we hear little or nothing of the working of miracles by the early Christians.” Nevertheless, Jesus and his apostles warned of future deceptive powerful works that would be done by apostates and also by a symbolic wild beast, enemies of God.—Mt 7:21-23; 24:23-25; 2Th 2:9, 10; Re 13:11-13;

The expressions of God’s power reach a high point in the establishment of his Kingdom by Christ Jesus and the judgment acts that result from that event.

end quote

Does Ephesians 3:10   disqualify using <b>1 Corinthians 1:24  to refer to Jesus as the wisdom of  Proverbs?  I will reason no it does not. Why” The context of both scriptures are quite different

Lets look at Ephesians 3:8-12 from the RSV “8  To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9  and to make all men see what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things; 10  that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places.11  This was according to the eternal purpose which he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord, 12  in whom we have boldness and confidence of access through our faith in him.”  

Since  congregation formed part of God’s hidden mysteries, by his dealings with it and his purposes fulfilled in it, he made known or revealed “the greatly diversified wisdom of God” through the congregation, even to “the governments and the authorities in the heavenly places.   Its members, having “<u>the mind of Christ
” , had knowledge and understanding vastly superior to that of the world, hence they could speak, “not with words taught by human wisdom, but with those taught by the spirit,” with “a mouth and wisdom ” opposers could not refute, though such Christians might be looked down upon as “uneducated, common men ” by worldly standards.—

Ephesians 1:17 “ that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him,”  (RSV)  

1Co 2:11-16 ; "11  For what person knows a man’s thoughts except the spirit of the man which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12  Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is from God, that we might understand the gifts bestowed on us by God. 13  And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who possess the Spirit. 14  The unspiritual man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 15  The spiritual man judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. 16  "For who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ ”. (RSV)

Lu 21:15 ;  “for I will give you a mouth and wisdom , which none of your adversaries will be able to withstand or contradict.” (RSV)

Ac 4:13 ; Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated, common men , they wondered; and they recognized that they had been with Jesus. (RSV)

So Ephesians is talking about Gods  own wisdom, the knowledge that he has and that he imparts to those that serve him.   God gives his wisdom not only to Jesus but to all those who fear God  It is diversified form creation to the knowledge he gives  “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; a good understanding have all those who practice it. ” Psalms 111:10 (RSV)

Wisdom is manifest only by being expressed in some way. God’s own wisdom was expressed in creation (Pr 3:19, 20 ) but through his Son.  God’s wise purpose involving mankind is made manifest through, and summed up in, his Son, Jesus Christ. Thus, the apostle could say that Christ represents “the power of God and the wisdom of God” (1 Corinthians 1:24 NWT)  and that Christ Jesus “has become to us wisdom from God, also righteousness and sanctification and release by ransom.” 1 Corinthians 1:30
(1 Corinthians 2:7,8 “ But we speak God’s wisdom in a sacred secret, the hidden wisdom, which God foreordained before the systems of things for our glory. 8 This [wisdom] not one of the rulers of this system of things came to know, for if they had known [it] they would not have impaled the glorious Lord” - NWT)

I hope I have answered the question for you.  

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Brenton Hepburn


I AM one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and I am always learning. I am NOT an expert in the full sense of the word but I can answer questions on the reliability of the NWT - the so called mind control problems-so called prophecies - how being a JW affects the individual and relatives and general practices and history of Jehovah’s Witnesses. >>WARNING<< Please be aware that there are people here who ARE NOT practicing JWs. By all means ask these ones questions. Depending on the question you will get an honest answer, but, generally the answer you get, will mislead you as to what we believe, often because, they do not give ALL the relevant details. These ones will, have an agenda against JWs., and will at times give answers that are not correct in regard to JW teachings and practices. If you are after a answer from one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, please read some of the answers that the various experts have published before choosing someone. If you want to ask one of the NON JWs a question, that is fine, BUT if you want a balancing view after asking one of the NON JWs, ask a JW the same question. PLEASE ALSO NOTE: There(have been)and are, some "experts" here who are NOT always the most courteous and polite, at times are actually quite rude, that applies to both JW's and non JW's and their answers may offend, especially when they get personal and attack the character of the person and not the message. Unfortunately some here that have done that. So it IS IMPORTANT to chose an "expert" that YOU feel will best suit YOU by reading some of their past answers . . . . .


I have been a publisher since 1964. When I first went on the internet I found a lot of negative information dealing with Jehovah’s Witnesses covering prophecy, mind control and what many said was a very bad translation of the Bible known as the NWT. It shook my faith. After may hours researching these topics I could see why some felt that way, but, I was also able to explain why there were these misleading views. I can now set matters straight for anyone that has negative information about Jehovah’s Witness to show them that such information is at best misleading and at worst dangerous lies.

I have been a student of the Bible for many years, am trying to teach myself Biblical Greek. Was a public tax accountant for many years untill SEP 2009 when I gave it up due to health problems.

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