Jehovah`s Witness/Any justification?
I've chatted my pastor yesterday and we talked about the TRINITY... I asked him why at John 5:37 Jesus said to the Jews that his father(the God of the Jews must have been YaHWeH or JEHOVAH)also borne witness about him(JESUS) and then JESUS says this: “YE HAVE NEITHER HEARD HIS VOICE AT ANYTIME, NOR SEEN HIS SHAPE.” So I told him, if JESUS was JEHOVAH,then that would have been a great contradiction on his PART for they(Jews) actually HEARING Jehovah/Jesus(Jews God) voice when he speak!!!!! But he just IGNORED that and then responded me this one here(I'll paste it):
“Do not differentiate Jesus from God
just read 1 John 1:1-5 also put to mind that Jesus is 100%God also is 100% Person. Our own thoughts can't explain that because that's a mystery. Surrender yourself to the only one TRUE SAVIOR Jesus Christ not to the CULT SAVIOR one of the Jehovah's Witnesses.”
Jesus Christ told His disciples in John 14 6-7......
“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”." Then in verse 8 Philip said, "... “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”." But Jesus Christ replied in verse 9-10, "... “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. ...."John's first epistle refers to Jesus Christ in the same way, "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life ..." (1 John 1:1). Later in this same epistle, 1 John 5:20 says, "And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."
Any justification for this?
Thanks and much Love DW
P.S. >> I'm going to start a BIBLE STUDY with the witnesses here in my place maybe next week.
Thanks for writing
I'm very glad to see that your eyes are now being open to the light of truth. It makes me very happy to see your progress.
Your Pastors response is a typical response of a leader in Christendom. Fob the argument off, leave an assumption based solitary passage of scripture to think about and then claim don't try and understand cause you can't!! Utter nonsense and that's why billions are being lead to destruction at the hands of Christendom and their leaders.
The fact is, it really is so ridiculously simple to understand. Seeing as your Pastor like's to use John 1, let's use John 1.
Jesus is not God, he is the son of God
34 "And I have seen [it], and I have borne witness that this one is the Son of God"
That's what John say's nothing mysterious about that and no need to imply any different whatsoever.
How about this verse in John 1
: 18 "No man has seen God at any time"
What's hard to understand about that?? I see no mystery here or any reason to imply any different
How about this one in John 1
:41 "First this one found his own brother, Simon, and said to him: “We have found the Mes·si′ah” (which means, when translated, Christ)"
What's hard to understand here?? What's mysterious about this?? Jesus is the Christ or the "anointed one" of God. It's so simple, nothing mysterious at all.
If this was written in any other book than the Bible people would accept it for what it means and what it say's. But because it's the Bible Christendom automatically think it's mysterious and they have no basis for making that claim. In fact that claim makes completely no sense whatsoever. God wrote the Bible for human understanding. It's his guide for mankind. Yet it's so mysterious that we can't understand it!! REALLY!!
Ok so let's tackle these verses he presents.
John 1:1 is quite a popular one Christendom like to use. This is how it's rendered correctly
"In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god"
Jesus was a god or divine in nature. There's a number of reasons for saying this. For a start that's what the rest of the Bible tells us. The rest of the Bible say's Jesus is not God, but the son of God ,so we have to base our understanding on the Bible as a whole not just on an isolated verse.
Is there a problem with Jesus being called a god?? No problem at all , God means "mighty one" Jesus was/is a mighty one. Men where even referred to as gods like here for example.
6 "I myself have said, ‘YOU are gods,And all of YOU are sons of the Most High"
Which is why the coptic Bible translates John 1:1 like this "and a god was the word"
as for the rest of it
2" This one was in [the] beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.
What has come into existence 4 by means of him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light is shining in the darkness, but the darkness has not overpowered it"
We look at a scripture here for this
15 " He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. 17 Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist"
Immediately we see Jesus is the FIRSTBORN OF Creation. God is not born nor is God OF creation. But what we are seeing here is that Jesus as God's first creation helped God create everything else.
So John 1:1-5 fails as a pro trinitarian argument
6 "Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If YOU men had known me, YOU would have known my Father also; from this moment on YOU know him and have seen him"
All we need is this first bit really, the question is. Is Jesus claiming to be the Father??
The answer is No else why would he say this "from this moment on YOU know him and have seen him"
If he was claiming to be the Father why have they only seen the Father from that moment on?? They'd been with him a long time, so what he obviously meant was that he imitated his Father perfectly. Not that he literally was him otherwise those words would make no sense.
What also would make no sense is these two verses in the same chapter
14:1 "Do not let YOUR hearts be troubled. Exercise faith in God, exercise faith also in me"
So Jesus is clearly not saying he's God here.
12......, because I am going my way to the Father"
So he is his father, but he's also going away to his father!! See how stupid and confusing Christendom make this??
Which is why this is the correct rendering for vs 8-10
"8 Philip said to him: “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.”
9 Jesus said to him: “Have I been with YOU men so long a time, and yet, Philip, you have not come to know me? He that has seen me has seen the Father [also]. How is it you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in union with the Father and the Father is in union with me? The things I say to YOU men I do not speak of my own originality; but the Father who remains in union with me is doing his works"
So we see that Jesus is is union with his Father perfectly, which is why he say's this, about him and his Father and also about his disciples.
30 "I and the Father are one"
22 "in order that they may be one just as we are one"
So again we don't need to confuse it, it's really simple!!
So again John 14 fails as a pro trinity text.
Now as for 1 John
1 That which was from [the] beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have viewed attentively and our hands felt, concerning the word of life"
Jesus was from the beginning he was the first creation. The heavens and the Earth are also from the beginning
1 "In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth"
God is not from the beginning he's eternal he doesn't even have a beginning. Jesus does we've already established that by now.
20 "But we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us intellectual capacity that we may gain the knowledge of the true one. And we are in union with the true one, by means of his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and life everlasting"
Now we have two options here
1)The true one is God
2) Jesus is God
Now considering what we've just discussed we already know the answer. But let's just see how John words another verse to confirm it
7 "For many deceivers have gone forth into the world, persons not confessing Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist"
So again we have two options
1)Deceivers are antichrist
2)Jesus is antichrist
Now we know Jesus isn't antichrist. So we see with the manner of John's writing in the previous verse he is not saying Jesus is God , but the true one who sent his son is.
Which is why Paul say's this
1 Cor 8:
6 "there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are"
One God the Father!!
What's mysterious and confusing about that??
So again another failure for the trinitarian argument.
Follow up if you need
p.s )let me know how you're study goes.