Jehovah`s Witness/Sal and his comments-Grunbaum Resigned?
Hello Brother Holland, it has been a long time since we have spoken and I pray that all is and has been well with you.
The reason for me contacting is because of the one called Sal that wrote to you thinking that you are happy for Grunbaums leaving.
Now as you probably know I didn't have an adversarial relationship with Brother Grunbaum per se, it was one more on the line of respect of two scholars in disagreement.
I must say that I am sad that he left, for if we are honest, no matter how much we disagree with the Doctrines and Theologies of the WTBS, Grunbaum(Daniel)was one that presented a formidable debate on topics and most times enjoyable to discuss scripture with.
I know that at times, even for the most part that you and Grunbaum stood at odds on several different levels and the relationship was not like mine with him, however at the end his words prove that inspire of all, he valued you in some kind of way and in his Apology, which was without doubt sincere, wanted to set things strait.
Why do I say these things? Because Sal, who is a person not only rejected from the mainstream religions, is and has also been rejected many times from the Witnesses because of his "Satanic" disposition. Did I say "Satanic"? Yes and that is what I meant.
For over a year I watched silently as Sal wrote lies not only to you but to Grunbaum in effort to cause strife and ill debate. Twisted questions with the intent on making things personal thereby taking the attention off of scripture forcing responses that did nothing more than make one defend personal feelings, space, and opinion. I have even witnessed him crying on the shoulders of both sides seeking some type of acceptance.
So today, when I read what he wrote to you, asking you if you were "happy" about Grunbaum leaving the site and implying, no, stating that you were the reason it brought me to anger.
Sal, it is obvious there are things, basic things you have no ability to grasp. Whereas we disagree with JW theology and doctrine, dislike how some of the responses may have come across, participated in what could be viewed as heated debates over our beliefs; what in the world would make you so ignorant to think that the "person" was disliked to the point of one being "happy" to see him leave? You do realize that in order to be "happy" to see him leave, that personal opinion would have had to take over spiritual concern and love for ones brother man don't you?
I will not try to speak for others, but I personally liked Grunbaum, enjoyed the debates admired his dedication and willingness to defend what he believed even though I disagree.
Sal a scripture for you:
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth
Sal, in Brother Daniels#Grunbaums# last writing, he encourage you to continue in study. He was telling you to make a stance, choose and to get off the fence trying to stand on middle ground. Question is, will you now choose to do so?
For us who are firm in our beliefs, JW and Mainstream Christian alike, we have the Lord to place correction. Who do you have now?
Brother Holland, forgive me if this writing in some way is disagreeable to you, but I felt that it needed to be said. There are some that need to understand there is a difference between disagreement with teachings and dislike for a person.
May God Bless and Keep You
Your Brother In Christ;
Rev. Darryl Murphy
Good morning, Brother Murphy. I am well, and I hope that you are also.
Mr. Murphy, I could not have said it better. Thank you. Everything you said here is spot on. I honestly felt sad that he has left, and I made this known to him in a private letter. What characters like Sal do not understand, is that Mr. Grunbaum and I have had many, many discussions in private over the years, and a lot of things have been said that have not been said in public. Some good, some not so good. So, when some clown like this Sal character shows up making stupid comments like that, he is doing nothing but making a fool out of himself. Which is what he does best.
And in regards to Sal, you are spot on in your words, when you say his disposition is "Satanic". There is no question about it. He did this same thing several years ago, under the name Harry, and came here practically begging for myself and Grunbaum (known then as Daniel Selinski) to argue. He is a sick, sick person, who gets his thrills out of being a trouble-maker and stirring up strife. I truly pity the guy. When he came here as "Sal", he lied from the very beginning, claiming to be a born again Christian with a wife, who was studying with a "Witness gal". I started smelling a rat after just a couple of back-and-forths, as it became obvious by some of the things he said, that his story was bogus. Even after he gave himself away with some of his comments, I continued to respond to him and give him the benefit of the doubt, although I knew better. Come to find out, he is not a born again Christian, nor is he married to the woman whom he lives with.
That was just the beginning, as his posts have only been designed to keep things stirred up among the experts. He set out to prove me a "liar", and after failing miserably in that regard, has proven himself to be a liar time and time again. And I would like to think that if a guy told me he was gonna buy me a new car, and all I had to do was not come to a certain web site, that I would have enough brains and IQ to do that. So, Sal is not very bright, in addition to being "Satanic". And on that "Satanic" thing, Sal even admitted awhile back that he might be under the control of an evil spirit, so your description was again, right on the money.
A few of your comments:
YOU: "For over a year I watched silently as Sal wrote lies not only to you but to Grunbaum in effort to cause strife and ill debate. Twisted questions with the intent on making things personal thereby taking the attention off of scripture forcing responses that did nothing more than make one defend personal feelings, space, and opinion. I have even witnessed him crying on the shoulders of both sides seeking some type of acceptance."
REPLY: Yes, very true. And what Sal doesn't seem to have the brains to figure out, is that everybody on both sides knows exactly what he is doing, and nobody even wants to see his stuff to begin with. Yet, like a pesky mosquito, he just keeps buzzing back around.
He has some sort of mental disorder, to have to get his kicks in such a manner. And yes, you are correct...He DOES hypocritically cry on both shoulders. I remember one day he wrote to me and apologized for his actions, and I remember thinking..."No way this is sincere". Even so, I forgave him, and within the SAME DAY, I had another question from him, taking it all back and telling me what low-life scum I was....All because he tried to write me under another name so Grunbaum wouldn't find out, and I busted him on it. Well, that was too bad for him, because there is no way my Christian conscience is going to let me be silent, while a man forks out $10,000.00+ dollars for a car, when I know for a fact that the recipient breached the agreement by which he had to abide to receive the car.
Just stuff like that....Sal is the trouble-maker, and then wants to blame everyone else when his trouble-making comes back to bite him. He is not a man, because a real man takes responsibility for his own mistakes. And a real man marries the "gal" who is already acting like a wife to him, also.
YOU: "So today, when I read what he wrote to you, asking you if you were "happy" about Grunbaum leaving the site and implying, no, stating that you were the reason it brought me to anger.
Sal, it is obvious there are things, basic things you have no ability to grasp. Whereas we disagree with JW theology and doctrine, dislike how some of the responses may have come across, participated in what could be viewed as heated debates over our beliefs; what in the world would make you so ignorant to think that the "person" was disliked to the point of one being "happy" to see him leave? You do realize that in order to be "happy" to see him leave, that personal opinion would have had to take over spiritual concern and love for ones brother man don't you?"
REPLY: Brother Murphy, this is the part which I told you I could not have said any better. Disagreement with doctrine does not, in any way, mean we do not care for the person with whom we disagree. If it does, then we have missed the entire point of calling ourselves "Christian" to begin with. Being right on doctrine, and not having love for the person who needs Christ, is an abomination to God. I believe 1 Corinthians 13 has something to say about that, as well.
Don't get me wrong...I believe doctrine IS vitally important. I believe it is important to discuss it, and compare Scriptures, and also know where the other guy is coming from. But at the end of the day, Jesus said one of the marks of His disciples, is that we have love for one another. He never said..."By this shall they know ye are my disciples, in that ye effectively argue doctrine, and prove the other guy wrong."
Unfortunately, you and I are discussing on a level that the likes of Sal will probably never be able to understand.
YOU: "I will not try to speak for others, but I personally liked Grunbaum, enjoyed the debates admired his dedication and willingness to defend what he believed even though I disagree."
REPLY: I agree with you 100% on that one. He could be much different behind the scenes, if you got to know him, than what was often seen here. Don't get me wrong, he could be behind the scenes EXACTLY like what we see here too...lol. But there was another side of him, that often made me wonder what all he has had to personally sacrifice for the Society. It made me have some compassion and pity, as well.
But I concur with your comments completely.
And Mr Murphy, please allow me to deviate from the topic in a way, but sort of stay on topic as well, in regards to Mr. Grunbaum. I say this, because of the nature of a question I got the other day, claiming to be one of my readers, basically mocking the man for his show of humility. And what I am about to write, is for ANYONE reading....
I have always thought Mr. Grunbaum's mannerisms leave a lot to be desired. He has said some things to me which I appreciated, and some things I could have really lost my temper on. He has told me that he loves me, and also that he hates me. But I believe he was sincere in his apology, and even in his words to Sal. I believe he is trying to leave the board, with no hard feelings towards anyone, and to make right his past comments. And I will say this....There is NOTHING "wimpy" about apologizing, and being truly sorry, and getting humble before God. There IS something wicked and prideful about NOT being able to do so. Regardless of the fact that I STRONGLY disagree with their public predictions, and the way they are, I believe, wresting the Scriptures, I will NOT join in with anyone in mocking a man who is being apologetic. And anybody who would, ought to be ashamed of themselves.
The more I have thought about that since receiving that question, the more it has bothered me. I am not referring to the other friend of mine who wrote me about the same subject, but in a much more tactful manner. I am talking about the one who seemed, like Sal (might even have BEEN Sal), to just want to stir something up. Well, if that is your intent, I'm not interested.
YOU: "Brother Holland, forgive me if this writing in some way is disagreeable to you, but I felt that it needed to be said. There are some that need to understand there is a difference between disagreement with teachings and dislike for a person."
REPLY: No Brother, nothing at all disagreeable with your writing about this. I am very glad you did, and yes, it needed to be said. Maybe something will finally "click" in Sal's head, and he will realize what he really is, and turn to Christ in repentance. One can only hope and pray. I issued him the challenge to write back to me with proof of his accusations, but am yet to hear from him. It will be interesting to see if he does.
Brother Murphy, thank you for writing, and may God bless you and yours.