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Jehovah`s Witness/Clarification on an answer by Chris


Can you give your take on an answer that Chris gave where he states "” The word "Lord" in the Greek (Kurios) was equivelant for Jehovah in the Greek translation of the Old Testament; therefore to the Jews "the Lord Jesus" was clearly an ascription of Deity.”

The full answer he gave is found at

Thank you

Hello Gordon,

Thank you for your question, and its nice to hear from you again.

Its funny that you should ask that, I recently sent Chris a message on that very subject, and unfortunately he chose not to respond to it but sent me an auto response message saying  “I have already answered this question for you once before”.  The fact is I do not ever recall having sent Chris any messages before little lone ask about the subject, so I am glad that I have an opportunity to publicly correct the misunderstanding that Chris told his readers about the word "lord".

I possible started of on the wrong foot when I wrote to Chris as I said  this is not  .. “ an attack on you  but to correct some statements you made about the word “lord” because your understanding needs to be corrected as you have posted information that is not correct. This is intended to be a discussion on Hebrew and Greek usage of words..”  I then went on to say after quoting him that he had posted   “ sweeping and generalized wrong information that can not go uncorrected”  and that was in direct relation to the statement you picked up on   ” The word "Lord" in the Greek (Kurios) was equivelant for Jehovah in the Greek translation of the Old Testament; therefore to the Jews "the Lord Jesus" was clearly an ascription of Deity.” .   Thinking about it now I suppose Chris could have  thought I was attacking him .   If he reads this I publicly apologize if that is how you felt, as I honestly try very hard not to attack anyone.

Bellow, basically is the message I sent to Chris in relation to his, with some minor corrections in grammar and the addition of some words in bold


Now I am  using the AKJV here and what Hebrew and Greek scholars say about the word “lord”

The word “lord” in the Hebrew is from “adon” meaning master.  Adon describes the one that holds the position of a “master” or “lord” over a slave or servant. It is used of Kings and their most powerful aides.  It is also used as a term of polite address. In Genesis 32:18 we read “Then thou shalt say, They be thy servant Jacob’s; it is a present sent unto my lord Esau”  That text disputes your generalized sweeping statement “The title "Lord" when used before a name, conveyed the thought of Deity to both Jews and Gentiles. “  Esau definitely is not deity but the use of . 

Hebrew has an other word for lord “adonay ”. This is an emphatic form of “adon” It is written as “Lord” in most Bibles, and the word used exclusively with reference to the divine name in other words it is used only of the God of the Hebrews YHWH.  

In the JKV and many other Bibles the word “LORD” (all in capitals) appears in place the Hebrew YHWH, which is the divine name of the Almighty God of the universe that the Hebrews Worshiped, the Almighty God of the “Old Testament”.

The Catholic Encyclopedia says under the heading Jehovah “The proper name  of God in the Old Testament; …...Jehovah occurs more frequently than any other Divine name. The Concordances of Furst ("Vet. Test. Concordantiae", Leipzig, 1840) and Mandelkern ("Vet. Test. Concordantiae", Leipzig, 1896) do not exactly agree as to the number of its occurrences; but in round numbers it is found in the Old Testament 6000 times, either alone or in conjunction with another Divine name. The Septuagint and the Vulgate render the name generally by "Lord" (Kyrios, Dominus), a translation of Adonai — usually substituted for Jehovah in reading. “ (bold mine)

What that does not say is that oldest Greek Septuagint parchments of the period before the second century do have the divine name in Hebrew letters in the text. So at the time of Christ and the apostles, both the Greek and Hebrew texts had the divine name.  By the second century the divine name was replaced with the Greek Kyrios in the Septuagint. Quote - “no copies of the Septuagint dated before the mid-2nd century CE/AD substitutes the Tetragrammaton (Yahweh's name) with "Kyrios" (the Greek word Lord).”  end quote  (Bold mine)  -

We know that God wanted his name known by all people, because his word testifies to that. In Exodus 7:5 in the JKV it says “And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD , when I stretch forth mine hand upon Egypt, and bring out the children of Israel from among them.” Where the word LORD is written it represents the divine name YHWH. The Egyptians HAD to KNOW that, the name of the Hebrews God was YHWH. (Yahweh or more commonly Jehovah) Here are ALL the other occurrences of that decree where Jehovah says that people WILL HAVE TO KNOW HIS NAME

Exodus 14:18   And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD , when I have gotten me honour upon Pharaoh, upon his chariots, and upon his horsemen.
Exodus 16:12   I have heard the murmurings of the children of Israel: speak unto them, saying, At even ye shall eat flesh, and in the morning ye shall be filled with bread; and yeshall know that I am the LORD your God.
Exodus 29:46   And they shall know that I am the LORD ,their God, that brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, that I may dwell among them: I am the LORD their God.
1 Kings 20:28   And there came a man of God, and spake unto the king of Israel, and said, Thus saith the LORD, Because the Syrians have said, The LORD is God of the hills, but he is not God of the valleys, therefore will I deliver all this great multitude into thine hand, and ye shall know that I am the LORD .
Ezekiel 6:7   And the slain shall fall in the midst of you, and ye shall know that I am the LORD .
Ezekiel 6:10   And they shall know that I am the LORD , and that I have not said in vain that I would do this evil unto them.
Ezekiel 6:14   So will I stretch out my hand upon them, and make the land desolate, yea, more desolate than the wilderness toward Diblath, in all their habitations: and they shall know that I am the LORD .
Ezekiel 7:4   And mine eye shall not spare thee, neither will I have pity: but I will recompense thy ways upon thee, and thine abominations shall be in the midst of thee: and ye shall know that I am the LORD .
Ezekiel 7:9   And mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: I will recompense thee according to thy ways and thine abominations that are in the midst of thee; and ye shall know that I am the LORD that smiteth.
Ezekiel 7:27   The king shall mourn, and the prince shall be clothed with desolation, and the hands of the people of the land shall be troubled: I will do unto them after their way, and according to their deserts will I judge them; and they shall know that I am the LORD .
Ezekiel 11:10   Ye shall fall by the sword; I will judge you in the border of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the LORD .
Ezekiel 11:12   And ye shall know that I am the LORD : for ye have not walked in my statutes, neither executed my judgments, but have done after the manners of the heathen that are round about you.
Ezekiel 12:15   And they shall know that I am the LORD , when I shall scatter them among the nations, and disperse them in the countries.
Ezekiel 12:16   But I will leave a few men of them from the sword, from the famine, and from the pestilence; that they may declare all their abominations among the heathen whither they come; and they shall know that I am the LORD .
Ezekiel 12:20   And the cities that are inhabited shall be laid waste, and the land shall be desolate; and ye shall know that I am the LORD .
Ezekiel 13:9   And mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the LORD .
Ezekiel 29:9   And the land of Egypt shall be desolate and waste; and they shall know that I am the LORD : because he hath said, The river is mine, and I have made it.
Ezekiel 29:16   And it shall be no more the confidence of the house of Israel, which bringeth their iniquity to remembrance, when they shall look after them: but they shall know that I am the LORD GOD.
Ezekiel 29:21   In that day will I cause the horn of the house of Israel to bud forth, and I will give thee the opening of the mouth in the midst of them; and they shall know that I am the LORD .
Ezekiel 30:8   And they shall know that I am the LORD , when I have set a fire in Egypt, and when all her helpers shall be destroyed.
Ezekiel 30:19   Thus will I execute judgments in Egypt: and they shall know that I am the LORD .
Ezekiel 30:25   But I will strengthen the arms of the king of Babylon, and the arms of Pharaoh shall fall down; and they shall know that I am the LORD , when I shall put my sword into the hand of the king of Babylon, and he shall stretch it out upon the land of Egypt.
Ezekiel 30:26   And I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations, and disperse them among the countries; and they shall know that I am the LORD .
Ezekiel 34:27   And the tree of the field shall yield her fruit, and the earth shall yield her increase, and they shall be safe in their land, and shall know that I am the LORD , when I have broken the bands of their yoke, and delivered them out of the hand of those that served themselves of them.
Ezekiel 35:9   I will make thee perpetual desolations, and thy cities shall not return: and ye shall know that I am the LORD .
Ezekiel 35:15   As thou didst rejoice at the inheritance of the house of Israel, because it was desolate, so will I do unto thee: thou shalt be desolate, O mount Seir, and all Idumea, even all of it: and they shall know that I am the LORD .
Ezekiel 36:11   And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I am the LORD .
Ezekiel 36:23   And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD , saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
Ezekiel 36:38   As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the LORD .
Ezekiel 37:6   And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD .
Ezekiel 37:13   And ye shall know that I am the LORD , when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
Ezekiel 38:23   Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD .
Ezekiel 39:6   And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD .
Ezekiel 39:7   So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD , the Holy One in Israel.
Ezekiel 39:22   So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

It is quite clear that Jehovah wanted his name known. Jesus was a Hebrew and was raised as a Hebrew. During his ministry he said that he had made his Fathers name known and would continue to make it known John 17:26 “ And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it”  He  also said he had a God, Just before he died he called out  "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Mark 15:34   After his resurrection he told Mary  that he had the same Heavenly father and God that she had  “I am ascending to my Father and your Father , to my God and your God ." John 20:17   

Paul acknowledges that Jesus had a God Rom.15:6 “ that together you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ .”  

Back to the word “lord” as it appears in the Greek Text. In the Greek the word for lord is “kurios” signifying one having power, or authority, to one whom service is due. It is NOT limited to deity.

The fact is, that at the time of Jesus, the Hebrew and the Greek scrolls of the “Old Testament” contained the divine name.  So, why would not the Son of God use it especially when God wanted people to know his name as per the lost of texts above, and that Jesus said he made Gods name known.

It was only superstition on the part of the Hebrews that stopped them using the name, and, removing it from the text, as later scrolls of the Hebrew and Greek (Septuagint) shows.

Elohim is not a name. It is a title. In fact in its basic use it means gods – plural. But as noted by “Vines Complete Expository Dictionary”, it also denotes a plural of majesty. How dose one know when it is used as a plural, or, as a plural of majesty?  By the verbs that apply directly to elohim.  When the verbs used, are in the plural form,  elohim means more that one god. When the verbs used are in the singular form, then plural of majesty is the meaning. What is plural of majesty? It is a word used to show superiority.   Queen Victoria was well known for using the English form of the plural of  majesty, it became known as the Royal “WE”.  She would refer to herself in with the plural pronoun “WE” instead of the singular pronoun “I”.

For an example of the plural form of god  “elohim” being used of a singular person  look at Exodus 7:1 . In the KJV it reads “ And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh” (bold mine)  NOTE 1: The word “LORD” has replaced the divine name of the Hebrew God, Jehovah. NOTE 2 the word god used here is elohim. Literally this text reads as per my Hebrew interlinear ... “and he is saying Yahweh to Moses I give you gods to Pharaoh”... Translators are not going to call Mosses gods or make him equal to the Most High, so they say “a god”. What this text is saying is that Moses had a superior position over Pharaoh, giving Moses divine, majestic authority, over Pharaoh

You are almost correct in the meaning of Jehovah. The Jewish Encyclopedia says it means "I will be that I will be," . This signifies that Jehovah will be what ever is necessary to protect his peoples. Their God, their Father, Savior, Protector, Discipliner, Helper, Teacher

end quote

Well I hope that demonstrates that is is unwise to assume that because Bibles use the word “Lord” that the Jews automatically ascribed “deity” to Jesus in the New Testament, and that the divine name was meant to be known by all.  

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Brenton Hepburn


I AM one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and I am always learning. I am NOT an expert in the full sense of the word but I can answer questions on the reliability of the NWT - the so called mind control problems-so called prophecies - how being a JW affects the individual and relatives and general practices and history of Jehovah’s Witnesses. >>WARNING<< Please be aware that there are people here who ARE NOT practicing JWs. By all means ask these ones questions. Depending on the question you will get an honest answer, but, generally the answer you get, will mislead you as to what we believe, often because, they do not give ALL the relevant details. These ones will, have an agenda against JWs., and will at times give answers that are not correct in regard to JW teachings and practices. If you are after a answer from one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, please read some of the answers that the various experts have published before choosing someone. If you want to ask one of the NON JWs a question, that is fine, BUT if you want a balancing view after asking one of the NON JWs, ask a JW the same question. PLEASE ALSO NOTE: There(have been)and are, some "experts" here who are NOT always the most courteous and polite, at times are actually quite rude, that applies to both JW's and non JW's and their answers may offend, especially when they get personal and attack the character of the person and not the message. Unfortunately some here that have done that. So it IS IMPORTANT to chose an "expert" that YOU feel will best suit YOU by reading some of their past answers . . . . .


I have been a publisher since 1964. When I first went on the internet I found a lot of negative information dealing with Jehovah’s Witnesses covering prophecy, mind control and what many said was a very bad translation of the Bible known as the NWT. It shook my faith. After may hours researching these topics I could see why some felt that way, but, I was also able to explain why there were these misleading views. I can now set matters straight for anyone that has negative information about Jehovah’s Witness to show them that such information is at best misleading and at worst dangerous lies.

I have been a student of the Bible for many years, am trying to teach myself Biblical Greek. Was a public tax accountant for many years untill SEP 2009 when I gave it up due to health problems.

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