Jehovah`s Witness/Funny stuff

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Hi Derrick,

I hope you are doing well.  You have been on this forum for a while, I see.  I tend to frequent a lot of JW forums myself.  As an simple bystander some things strike me on this forum as unique, and I wanted your take on it.  First, whenever I see names appear multiple times, it peaks my interest.   The same is said when I see a wide variety of names in a short time span, or a barrage of, "You are amazing!" comments out of nowhere.  Let's take allexpert's very own Bro Drake or David or whatever he wants to be called.  Have you noticed the incredible number of different people that have been flocking to him with questions and throwing him praise so he can graciously thank Jehovah?  Seriously, besides Johan and Chris, pretty much every other question is someone different.  Nobody else comes anywhere close to having such few repeat questioners.  It's like the great crowd all up and decided to contact him at once staggered by a day or two.  They couldn't be the anointed because they are simple questions too, with LONG answers, a bunch of which happened to be asked by non-JW's about ("what a coinky-dink") the current Watchtower study at the time.  Do you know what I think?  I think he is the author of most of his own questions.   I even think he manufactured the "you are amazing" answers.  Sounds like something a JW would do.

Also, in reading back, I cracked up at the "debates" that JW's  have with you, if you want to call it that.  You present your case, and they throw out nonsense and hop down rabbit trails.  That Grunbaum character, especially, oh and DW.  Man, they fail over and over.  I hope I spelled that name right.  I don't want to get yelled at by Sister (insert initial here).  I have watched JW debates on other forums.  They crack me up.  It's all the same.  Blah blah blah...no spiritual insight...blah blah blah...verse out of context...cult talk...blah blah blah.  I even saw a debate on some atheist's blog one time that tried to convince the atheist that there was a God, and he got schooled, hard.  Oh, I know what reminded me of that!  That JW dude was named Winternatt.  I saw that that person wrote you a long time ago.  Boy, he didn't know the Bible at all.  Couldn't even effectively argue that God exists.  Anyway, just thought I'd drop a line and encourage you and get your thoughts.

Answer
Good evening, and thank you for writing with your observations.

Yes, I have been here for quite awhile.  If I am not mistaken, longer than any of the other current "experts".  My profile shows that I have been a member since December, of 2000.  So, I have seen a few interesting things over the years, to say the least.  A lot of characters have come and gone, some remain, and perhaps more to come in the future.  

I am glad that you have been reading some of the past answers, and find them interesting.  I will make a few comments on some of your observations, and try to maintain a peaceful and neutral stance at the same time.

I think it is fair to say that some things on this forum are "unique".  For instance....

1.  You see members of a religion which calls itself "the truth", regularly speak untruths about other individuals, and their beliefs, with seemingly no remorse or regret.

And some of them have even somehow managed to convince themselves, that Jehovah God actually APPROVES of this behavior, because they are "defending the Organization".  I have never known Jehovah to need someone to lie for Him, however.

2.  You see other members of the same religion, actually try to exemplify what they believe by their responses to questioners, only to be insulted by the dishonest ones, and have their genuineness called into question.  Most notably, the false prophet "Stewart", saying that he didn't "want" certain JWs answering questions in this forum, as if that is his call anyway.

I really wonder if that goes on in any other religious forum on Allexperts, outside of this one.

You wrote:  "First, whenever I see names appear multiple times, it peaks my interest.   The same is said when I see a wide variety of names in a short time span, or a barrage of, "You are amazing!" comments out of nowhere.  Let's take allexpert's very own Bro Drake or David or whatever he wants to be called.  Have you noticed the incredible number of different people that have been flocking to him with questions and throwing him praise so he can graciously thank Jehovah?"

REPLY:  To be honest, I have not been on the board much over the past several weeks, until this past week.  But yes, I have seen some of the answers you referenced, but honestly, had not paid too much attention to the vast number of different people writing.  Oftentimes, I check the board on my breaks at work, from my phone, and don't really have the time or opportunity to do an examination of this sort.

Now in reference to the expert you mentioned, I cannot say "yes" or "no", as to whether he is writing self-praising questions to himself.  If he is, that would be disappointing, because I have always enjoyed reading how he handles himself, even though he is wrong doctrinally and Scripturally.  I can respect anyone of any belief, as long as they treat their questioners with politeness and dignity.  However, if what you say is true, that is a shame.  My personal feeling, is that it is best to be HONEST. If someone has a thought on their minds that they would like to write about and post, I have no issue with that.  What I DO have an issue with, is when a person tries to be deceptive, and PRETEND that the question is coming from someone else, when they know for a fact that it is coming from them.  

That isn't very far removed from lying, in my opinion.  And I wonder if Jehovah appreciates His name being used in a deceitful manner such as that?  I think if I were going to mislead people into thinking something that wasn't true, I would leave Jehovah out of it.  

Again, I am not saying this "expert" is doing this, or has done it.  Only he knows that.

The only person I can verify for a certainty that has done this, is Rando....no question there.  He has done it regularly, habitually, and for years.  And its obvious.

Personally, I can honestly say that when I post something, I ALWAYS make it clear that I am posting it under my own profile.  I can also say that I have never once PRETENDED to be someone else while writing a question to myself, and telling myself how great my answers are.  I would feel ridiculous doing something that dishonest, and immature.

Now again, I cannot say that the expert you mention is doing that, as only he knows that for sure.

I will admit that I have read some of the same questions you have, and yes, they do sound somewhat suspicious.  Especially the ones where a so-called Baptist preacher is telling one of his members to "Go ask a JW".  I know a great many Baptist preachers, and I cannot think of one that would do something that ridiculous.  Not buying that one.  That doesn't mean that the expert wrote it to himself....it could mean the questioner was lying.  Either way, that one was almost laughable.  Sounds to me like a JW is making up a story, in order to give his religion some props in a public forum, but had to lie to do it.

Your observations about the other questioners besides Johan and Chris, always being someone different, are quite interesting, I will admit.


You wrote:  " It's like the great crowd all up and decided to contact him at once staggered by a day or two.  They couldn't be the anointed because they are simple questions too, with LONG answers, a bunch of which happened to be asked by non-JW's about ("what a coinky-dink") the current Watchtower study at the time.  Do you know what I think?  I think he is the author of most of his own questions.   I even think he manufactured the "you are amazing" answers.  Sounds like something a JW would do."


REPLY:  Well again, I cannot answer for Mr. Drake.  It IS something that at least one JW would do, and has done....Rando.  I mean, when Rando first joined this forum, he actually did exactly what you are mentioning.  But he went beyond that....He gave HIMSELF "10" ratings, and nominated HIMSELF for "Expert of the Month".  When I pointed this out back in 2007, he simply turned around and accused ME of doing exactly what he was doing himself...LOL.

So, you may be correct, I don't know.


You wrote:  "Also, in reading back, I cracked up at the "debates" that JW's  have with you, if you want to call it that.  You present your case, and they throw out nonsense and hop down rabbit trails."


REPLY:  Ah, you noticed that too, did you?

My many debates with JWs through the years, have nearly always followed this exact pattern, that you mention.  

1.  Character attacks

2.  Misrepresenting Christian doctrine

3.  Character attacks

4.  Changing the subject, when defeated

5.  Character attacks

6.  Lying and attributing statements to me that I never made, and when asked to produce the quote, claiming "I don't have time to go back and find it".

DW is especially notorious for that one.  And no true Christian would conduct themselves in this manner.

And finally.....

7.  Character attacks, while claiming that YOU are the one attacking their character.  Typical JW diversionary tactic.

One thing you can count on in nearly any debate with a JW, is for them to try and create diversions at every turn.  I learned a long time ago, to refuse to let them do it, and hold them to ONE subject at a time, until they address it in full.  I honestly think this is a tactic that they have all learned, or been trained to do.


You wrote:  " I hope I spelled that name right.  I don't want to get yelled at by Sister (insert initial here)."


REPLY:  LOL.  Yeah, you had definitely better be careful with that one.  


You wrote:  "I have watched JW debates on other forums.  They crack me up.  It's all the same.  Blah blah blah...no spiritual insight...blah blah blah...verse out of context...cult talk...blah blah blah."


REPLY:  I've noticed some of the same arguments, used over and over and over again, though that very argument has been refuted thoroughly many times.  A few examples come to mind immediately, from my various debates.  But I'll save those for another discussion.


You wrote:  "I even saw a debate on some atheist's blog one time that tried to convince the atheist that there was a God, and he got schooled, hard.  Oh, I know what reminded me of that!  That JW dude was named Winternatt.  I saw that that person wrote you a long time ago.  Boy, he didn't know the Bible at all.  Couldn't even effectively argue that God exists.  Anyway, just thought I'd drop a line and encourage you and get your thoughts."

REPLY:  You know, its funny, but I think I remember that name.  It stood out to me because it was so unusual.  I THINK I have an idea who that was, too, but I would want to be sure before stating it.  

So this "Winternatt" person had a debate with an atheist, and the atheist won?  Goodness!  That's awful!  Personally, I think atheists are some of the most illogical, and unintelligent people on the planet.  My discussion with atheists usually last about one round, because I demand for them to explain to me how life arises from non-life, and that ends the discussion.  All they can tell you, is how it DIDN'T happen (the Biblical account), but have no clue how it DID happen.  I always tell them that, until they have some better explanation to replace God's Word with, then they are wasting their time trying to debate me.

I can't believe a guy from "the truth", would lose a debate to an atheist.

Of course, I would have to see the atheist's blog, to decide if the atheist really won.  I have known  atheists to be pretty puffed up about their own intelligence, yet the Scripture calls them "fools".  

Well, those are my thoughts.  I cannot make an accusation against anyone, if I don't know for certain.  And on this particular expert, I do not know for certain.  I can only say that it is a shame, if it is the case.  Again, I think a person who claim their religion is the only "true" religion, would practice TRUTH in their daily lives, as well.  I hope that is the case with the expert you mention.  Sadly, there are too many in this forum now, who do not practice truth, at least in regards to their conduct on the forum.

Take care, and have a great evening.


Derrick






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Derrick Holland

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I was raised in the religion known as Jehovah`s Witnesses for 13 years. Since becoming a born-again Christian, I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history. I can answer questions about their doctrines from the perspective of Biblical Christianity. To be clear: Jehovahs Witnesses is the religion of my upbringing, though I myself was never baptized into the religion, nor have I ever been considered as a Jehovahs Witness.

Experience

29 years of Biblical research into the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, and how they differ from the teachings of the Watchtower.

Organizations
I would advise each questioner to this forum, to carefully READ the profiles of the various volunteers. There are several such as myself, who are not practicing JWs, but will provide you with an accurate and honest answer, regarding JW teaching. If we don't know the answer, we will try to research and get it for you. There are also some excellent practicing JWs here, who also endeavor to give you a factual and honest answer, based on their point of view. I believe by getting both points of view, the questioner can weigh the evidence for themselves, and make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are also 3 here who claim to be JWs, but do NOT give honest, or well-researched answers. They will tell you only what they want you to believe, and they often hide facts about the history of their religion, as well as print untruths about other people's beliefs. This is done in an attempt to deceive the unsuspecting reader. It can be easily seen who these 3 are, simply by reading the public posts and "answers" which they write. Their posts will normally be filled with personal attacks, and if you question them about some teaching or aspect of the Watchtower that makes them uncomfortable, they will often reject your question, question your motives for asking it, tell you that you have been reading "apostate" sites, or turn the conversation into an attack on another expert. These ones are better avoided, as there is nothing to be gained by way of positive discussion, as they are not interested in intelligent conversation, or honest dialogue. If after reading the forum, you still have any questions as to who they are, just ask me, and I will be happy to tell you. And I can also provide documentation of their willful dishonesty. One thing is for certain...in a forum where people from both sides claim to be "Christians", there should never be any willful lying. Such ones only create a distraction in the forum, and provide nothing of any real value.

Education/Credentials
High School, some college. Studies of God's Word, the Bible, and how it compares to JW theology. I have found my own personal study and experiences to be far more valuable than any formal education or training. The Bible message is clear...Salvation is ONLY through and by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and no religious organization has a thing to do with it. While attendance at a Bible-preaching, Bible-believing church is a must for spiritual growth and fellowship, no church can grant salvation to its members. Nor is joining a particular group a prerequisite for being saved.

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