Jehovah`s Witness/beginnings


I know you are not going to post this because I'm not being "nice"

You removed the "Ask a Follow Up Question" button on your reply. Again

You haven't changed a bit Derrick. You count on people only reading your response, and not the original question.

Quote: By "Shepherd's Chapel", I assume that you mean that you began listening to the false teacher, Arnold Murray. That sure does explain a lot about your way of thinking.

Answer: He teaches the same things you do. The Trinity, participation in politics, being in the military.

Quote: I have known one or two other people to become mixed up with his false teachings. So basically, I would say that, after a steady diet of false and unbiblical teachings from someone who APPEARED to be well-versed in the Scriptures..."

Answer:  No trend. Just realizing his own teachings were revealing him. I actually learned a LOT of Bible Truth from him. His own personal prejudices were revealed in what he either left out or changed. Looked into the mirror lately?

Quote: The problem here, Bill, is that NONE of this is how we are supposed to go about joining a religion. You don't join up with a religion because you run into JWs at a gas pump, at Wal-Mart, or at the park. Don't you think Satan can also arrange things like this? Quote

Answer: Except after two years of intense study, I had come to know the Bible. Satan can quote scripture, but he cannot live it.

I asked you once a few years ago if you had ever been in uniform. You refused to answer. I lived my beliefs to the fullest then as I know them to be a lie now. Your biography states that you were (paraphrasing) were "raised as a witness" for a 13 years". Yet all you can do is tear down.

So I ask you again: have you ever done anything that required you to stick your neck out for what you believed? Other than in writing that is? I doubt it because smugness is the first casualty of of mortal danger.

Quote: Would you say that was God doing this, Bill? Does Jehovah lead some people to become JWs, some Baptists, some Pentecostals, some Church of Christ, etc?

Answer: Is what you believe is in harmony with the rest of the Bible? Is the road broad or spacious Derrick?

Quote: You went from listening to a man who thinks he has some great, God-given insight into the Scriptures, to following a GROUP of men, who think you can't possibly understand the Scriptural path to salvation without their help.

Answer: Wow, In less than your usual reply length you go from calling him a "false teacher" to having "some great, god given insight." That's a record for you.

Nuff said, because I know you won't post this.

You know, Bill, I get many questions from all over the world.  And going in, I realize that my questioners have various levels of intellect, and I always take that into consideration and try to be polite to all questioners who at least show some level of respect.  But when it comes to being on the low end of the intellectual scale, you take the cake.  And normally I would not even point that out, except that you are insulting, misquote, and tell lies on top of it all.  

In this writing alone, you proceeded to:  Make the same false accusations which you made in the past, and were already addressed.  Furthermore, you lied, you misquoted me deliberately in order to twist my words, and you continued your usual insulting manner without making one legitimate Bible point.

BILL:  "I know you are not going to post this because I'm not being "nice"....Nuff said, because I know you won't post this."

REPLY:  Lol, Bill.  Good one.  Tell me, Bill, why would I NOT post it?  You made YOURSELF look ridiculous with all your crazy accusations and comments, not me.

Besides, I get enough POSITIVE ratings, so that I can absorb your little childish habit of giving me a "1" for making you look foolish.  So, go ahead, if it makes you feel better.  I'll allow it this once.  

As for why I have stopped corresponding with you in the past, you have already been told why.  I quote from a previous reply to you....

QUOTE:  “Now, in the future Bill, you are welcome to write questions to me on Bible doctrine. I will treat you with respect, but I also expect the same from you.”

In addition to the above comment, I told you that I would agree to discuss any Bible doctrine with you, provided you would refrain from calling names like "wuss", and giving me "1" ratings in an attempt to remove me from the board.  That's a far cry from my "refusing to answer".  I simply said I wanted an intelligent, and CHRISTIAN, discussion.  But since you are Biblically illiterate and do not have the capability of having a discussion that is intelligent, without the use of insults, I merely declined to aid you with your personal vendetta.

Now, I referenced your lies, false accusations, etc.  Let's deal with those now....

FALSE ACCUSATION FROM BILL:  "You removed the "Ask a Follow Up Question" button on your reply. Again

You haven't changed a bit Derrick. You count on people only reading your response, and not the original question."

REPLY:  Why it is that you insist on making a fool of yourself, is beyond me.  You have no clue whatsoever how Allexperts works, even though this was explained to you BEFORE.  This is now the 3rd time you have falsely accused me of "removing" a follow-up button, and its the 3rd time you have been wrong in doing so.  I CANNOT selectively "REMOVE" a follow-up button.  I have to either allow, or not allow, follow-up questions after my question allotment for the day is met.

Now, let me inform you, that a questioner named Jim just sent me a FOLLOW-UP question within hours of the one that you claim to have attempted to send. Jim's question came through just fine, Bill.  

Do you just not KNOW HOW to use the Allexperts system?  Its obvious that you don't know how it works.  But Jim had no problem sending his...Therefore, this shows that I DO allow follow-up questions.  Why you insist on continuing to tell this lie, is beyond me.

But when I got your question yesterday morning, Bill, I wanted to see just what you were whining about this time, so I attempted to send MYSELF a question, and then a follow up.  Now, let it go on record that this is the SECOND time I have had to explain this to you.  I also told you the same thing the last time you lied, and said I was removing the follow-up button.  

I currently have my questions set on allowing 3 per day.  My settings also do not allow follow-ups, once I have received my full question allotment for the day, which HAD happened with Jim's follow-up.  Once I have gotten 3 questions in one day, no, you cannot follow up UNTIL THE NEXT DAY when the system resets.  Once that 24 hour period is up, and the system resets, then you can follow up.  

Is this really so hard, Bill?  Why is it that you cannot grasp something so simple?  I limit questions to 3 per day....I had gotten 3 the day you tried to follow up.  Had you waited until the next day, you could have followed up.  

Now as I told you, I sent myself a question, and a follow up yesterday morning.  My first question went through, but my follow up did not.  So, I went into my settings and changed my question allotment to 4 questions per day, to allow one more question.  Then, I went back and tried to send myself the follow up question again.

And guess what, Bill?  It went through just fine.  The follow up "button" was there.  The problem is with your knowledge of the system (or lack of), Bill, and not with anything I am doing.

See why I say you aren't too bright?  You have made this false accusation 3 times now, and it has been false every time you have made it.  And you did not have the Christian integrity last time to apologize, and I am quite certain you don't have the Christian integrity to apologize this time either.

But what you are NOT going to do, is to get away with telling your lies, and making absurd accusations against me, with some false comment about my "removing" a follow-up button.

So, I will type this ONCE AGAIN for you, Bill, and I will type it S-L-O-W-L-Y so as to not confuse you further....Are you ready?  Okay, here goes....

When I have had 3 questions within a 24 hour period, it is the ALLEXPERTS SYSTEM that prevents you from following up, not something that I personally am doing.  When I have had 3 questions in that time period, you will have to wait ONE MORE DAY to follow up.  Each expert has his/her settings to however many questions they want in a day's time.  Mine is currently on 3.  

So,what was it you were saying about "Satan can quote scripture, but he cannot live it"?  Have YOU looked in the mirror lately, Bill?  You do not "live" have no problem with lying and twisting people's words, and don't even have the integrity to apologize when you make a blunder, as you have done yet again.  Don't tell me that you "live" the Scriptures.

YOU:  "You haven't changed a bit Derrick."

REPLY:  I don't need to change.  I didn't "remove" any button, and I don't conduct myself in dishonesty like you, and too many of your "brethren", do.  

YOU:  "You count on people only reading your response, and not the original question."

REPLY:  This is not only an outright lie, but a stupid statement.  People DID read your original question, Bill.  Do you just not know how to check the board?  Its there, for all to see.  What a dumb comment that was!  But since you actually had the gall to make the statement, let me provide the link, which if you can manage to click on it, it will show both YOUR ORIGINAL question, AND my response.

In addition to the above blunder on your part, you also display a terrible inability to even get simple facts straight.  Example...

YOU:  "I asked you once a few years ago if you had ever been in uniform."

REPLY:  No Bill, you asked that question on June 7, 2012....just over a year ago.  Now, that's a small detail, but if you can't even get small details correct, then why should we think you will get bigger things correct?

Then, in regards to the above question about my military service, you lied when you said....

YOU:  "You refused to answer"

REPLY:  Why would you tell a lie to the readers, Bill?  Why didn't you tell them that I agreed to answer you, provided you would agree to the terms of acting like a Christian, without being insulting?  Here is what I ACTUALLY said to you, in response to that question, and we will just let our readers decide who is lying, and who is telling the truth, and if they think I am "refusing" to answer.

My original comment to you on June 7, 2012...."“Now Bill, I think I was quite clear....I am happy to discuss with you, if you are willing to show maturity in the above areas that you have not yet displayed. Basically, act like a Christian. Until you agree to those terms, there is nothing to talk about. Now, if you agree to those terms, then you may verbalize that to me, and then please feel free to re-send this, or any other question you have. If not, then don't waste my time...or yours.”

Hmm...I believe I told you clearly that you could re-send the question after we had come to an agreement, and I would be happy to answer.  And you falsely claim here that I "refused to answer".  No Bill, I simply refused to sink to your level of insults and name-calling.  I have never refused to answer a legitimate question, regarding the teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Why did you lie, Bill?

Regarding Arnold Murray, you said....

BILL:  "He teaches the same things you do. The Trinity, participation in politics, being in the military."

REPLY:  Well Bill, we are to believe that you studied the teachings of Mr. Murray for 2 years, and yet you came away THIS ignorant of his teachings?  Something is amiss here...Again, maybe its just the same lack of comprehension, that you display in your writings to me, who knows?

I'm starting to concur with your own description of yourself, in your previous writing, when you said....

"I'm a little denser than most, but after 10 days I'm beginning to see a pattern here."

Yes Bill, you sure seem to be.  And after several conversations with you that amount to absolutely nothing, I too am beginning to see a pattern.

Now, back to Arnold Murray, as some things need to be said in order to address your falsehoods regarding his beliefs.

First off, Mr. Murray teaches Modalism, NOT the Trinity.  Do you even know the difference?

Furthermore, he has heretical views on the 2nd coming of Christ, and also believes that the British people represent the tribes of Israel, and he teaches the false serpent-seed doctrine.  Should I go on?  Mr. Murray believes almost nothing that I believe, doctrinally.

For you to say "He teaches the same things you do", simply proves the above comments regarding your powers of perception.  Mr. Murray's ideas are much closer to yours, than they are to mine.   

How on earth are you so uneducated on the teachings of a man you claim to have diligently listened to for 2 years?  I find it astounding that you studied after the man for 2 years, yet I know more about what he teaches than you do.

Like I said....this explains the trend, as to why you fall for things so easily.

BILL:  "I actually learned a LOT of Bible Truth from him."

REPLY:  Again, I repeat....This sure does explain A LOT of what I have seen from you.

BILL:  "So I ask you again: have you ever done anything that required you to stick your neck out for what you believed? Other than in writing that is? I doubt it because smugness is the first casualty of of mortal danger."

REPLY:  This question has absolutely nothing to do with anything, and is very vague.  You want to know if I have "ever done anything that required me to stick my neck out"?

Not very specific, are you Bill?  If you are asking if I have served in the military, I have not.  If you are asking of my experience in the ministry, yes I have.  I have done a great deal of street witnessing and street preaching, many times in hostile areas where we could be said to be in danger.  I took a stand against my own uncle, who was also my employer, when he divorced his JW wife for another woman.  Telling your employer he is an adulterer and will answer to God, is not the best means of job security.

Furthermore, I battled Stage 4 Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma for 3 years, and with the help of God, I won.  During that time I learned what faith really was, and what it meant to stick my neck out and keep a positive face, and never waver in my belief that I would see my sons grow up.  

What is it that you are asking, exactly, when you talk about "sticking my neck out"?  Your question is so vague, that its difficult to see exactly what it is you are wanting to know, or what connection it has with JW doctrine or the Bible.  If you're implying that I have done nothing for my faith than sit in front of a computer and type, then once again, you only show your ignorance.    

Now Bill, let's look at one of the plainest, and most obvious examples of willfully lying and misquoting someone, that this board has seen since, well, since Rando last did it.....

BILL:  "Wow, In less than your usual reply length you go from calling him a "false teacher" to having "some great, god given insight." That's a record for you.

REPLY:  If this doesn't prove my point, then I don't know what does.  In addition to your lies and false accusations about my removing the "Follow Up" button, your lies claiming that I refused to answer your questions, and your complete inability to grasp the basic doctrines of a man you studied for 2 years, you NOW cannot even read and comprehend the very quote from me that you pasted, without twisting and changing it.

What you intended as an insult and supposed "catching me in a contradiction", only served to make YOU look ridiculous...and dishonest.  

I didn't actually say Mr. Murray has "some great, God-given insight (you should CAPITALIZE the word "God", Bill. Show some respect for Him).

Read it again....I said, quite clearly, that Mr. Murray THINKS he has some great, God-given insight.

You're a sharp one, Bill.  Why do you continue to pick fights with someone who is only going to make you look ridiculous?  

As for the length of this reply, sorry it is so long.  I am not trying to overload your circuits.  But when you make so many false statements and tell so many lies, it necessitates a longer response to set them all straight.  

Even you should be able to figure that out.

Good bye, Bill.  Since I know your "Christian" integrity will not move you to correct your own blunder yet again, I believe that this effectively ends this conversation.  

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Derrick Holland


I was raised in the religion known as Jehovah`s Witnesses for 13 years. Since becoming a born-again Christian, I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history. I can answer questions about their doctrines from the perspective of Biblical Christianity. To be clear: Jehovahs Witnesses is the religion of my upbringing, though I myself was never baptized into the religion, nor have I ever been considered as a Jehovahs Witness.


29 years of Biblical research into the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, and how they differ from the teachings of the Watchtower.

I would advise each questioner to this forum, to carefully READ the profiles of the various volunteers. There are several such as myself, who are not practicing JWs, but will provide you with an accurate and honest answer, regarding JW teaching. If we don't know the answer, we will try to research and get it for you. There are also some excellent practicing JWs here, who also endeavor to give you a factual and honest answer, based on their point of view. I believe by getting both points of view, the questioner can weigh the evidence for themselves, and make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are also 3 here who claim to be JWs, but do NOT give honest, or well-researched answers. They will tell you only what they want you to believe, and they often hide facts about the history of their religion, as well as print untruths about other people's beliefs. This is done in an attempt to deceive the unsuspecting reader. It can be easily seen who these 3 are, simply by reading the public posts and "answers" which they write. Their posts will normally be filled with personal attacks, and if you question them about some teaching or aspect of the Watchtower that makes them uncomfortable, they will often reject your question, question your motives for asking it, tell you that you have been reading "apostate" sites, or turn the conversation into an attack on another expert. These ones are better avoided, as there is nothing to be gained by way of positive discussion, as they are not interested in intelligent conversation, or honest dialogue. If after reading the forum, you still have any questions as to who they are, just ask me, and I will be happy to tell you. And I can also provide documentation of their willful dishonesty. One thing is for a forum where people from both sides claim to be "Christians", there should never be any willful lying. Such ones only create a distraction in the forum, and provide nothing of any real value.

High School, some college. Studies of God's Word, the Bible, and how it compares to JW theology. I have found my own personal study and experiences to be far more valuable than any formal education or training. The Bible message is clear...Salvation is ONLY through and by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and no religious organization has a thing to do with it. While attendance at a Bible-preaching, Bible-believing church is a must for spiritual growth and fellowship, no church can grant salvation to its members. Nor is joining a particular group a prerequisite for being saved.

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