Jehovah`s Witness/Was it a Cross or a Stake?

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Question
Does the KJV Bible render the word Stauros correctly when it puts Cross in certain areas of its Bible version?    If this word is not rendered correctly then all places that Stauros is rendered Cross is incorrect.  This may shake the very faith of ones who heavily believe in and venerate the Cross!  But then again, ones who are not willing to go according to Bible teachings and think they know it all will not be moved, because many people today go according to what they want to believe, instead of what God tells us from his Word the Bible!  

Some may say what difference does it make what he died on, as long as he died for our sins, that's what is important.

Yes, that's true, it's extremely important that Jesus died for our sins.

But it's also important that the way we worship God is in truth, as the Bible says:

John 4:23,24 "Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth."

So the Bible is clear, one MUST worship in truth!!


Please read on....

Answer
First many people will make the claim that they do not worship the Cross,  but history and churches show otherwise, actions speak louder than words, and the actions of people show that the Cross is venerated and worshiped.  And even if it was just a reminder or remembrance of Jesus dying for our sins, does that make it all right to carry around, display, use with prayer, bow to, look up to, bless people with, etc according to the Almighty God?

Would a person be so bold as to say that they are right and Almighty God is wrong?  If God says one thing in the Bible and someone else says something else, I suggest you go with what God says.

What does God say about things made of wood & stone and carved images, as that's what a cross is, a carved image, something made of wood or stone, etc. or any thing that represents the male or female.  So if it's a cross or pole, should we have it as a reminder or remembrance?  Let's see what the Bible says:

Deut 4:15,16 (NWT) "And YOU must take good care of YOUR souls, because YOU did not see any form on the day of Jehovah’s speaking to YOU in Ho′reb out of the middle of the fire, 16 that YOU may not act ruinously and may not really make for yourselves a carved image, the form of any symbol, the representation of male or female,"

Exodus 20:4 KJV " Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."

Deut. 27:15 KJV "Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the Lord, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen."

Lev 26:1 KJV "Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God."

Habakkuk 2:18 KJV "What profiteth the graven image that the maker thereof hath graven it; the molten image, and a teacher of lies, that the maker of his work trusteth therein, to make dumb idols?"

So what is an image according to Merriam-Webster's Dictionary:

1:  a reproduction or imitation of the form of a person or thing; especially : an imitation in solid form : statue

And according to Merriam-Webster's Dictionary an Idol is :

1:  a representation or symbol of an object of worship; broadly : a false god

2:   a likeness of something   

4:  an object of extreme devotion <a movie idol>; also : ideal 2

According to Merriam-Webster's Dictionary Venerate means:

1: to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference
2: to honor (as an icon or a relic) with a ritual act of devotion



Can one honestly say that a cross is not an idol or carved image and that it's not venerated and be telling the truth?  NO!  Can one honestly say that a Cross is not an object of extreme devotion and be telling the truth?  NO!

The Cross receives extreme devotion, this is a fact of history and present!  But who should we give our complete devotion and worship to, and only to?  Jehovah God! (Matt 4:10) why?

The KJV Bible says that God is a Jealous God.   (Joshua 24:19, Nahum 1:2, Deut 20:5)

Isaiah 42:8 KJV "I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images."

So according to the Bible we can see that he would not and does not approve of the use of a Cross, which is an image, in worship to him!

He told the people of Israel that they should not make an image because they had not saw a form when he spoke to them, so therefore, why make an image that would have anything to do with the worship of God period!

Deut. 4:15 KJV "Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the Lord spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire: "

Similitude means according to Merriam-Webster's Dictionary:

1 a : counterpart, double
 b : a visible likeness : image


So it's clear from the Bible that NO IMAGES should be used regarding our worship to God!  NONE.  

Now, what about the word Stauros!!  


<<quote>>
The Greek word rendered “cross” in many modern Bible versions (“torture stake” in NW) is stau·ros′. In classical Greek, this word meant merely an upright stake, or pale. Later it also came to be used for an execution stake having a crosspiece. The Imperial Bible-Dictionary acknowledges this, saying: “The Greek word for cross, [stau·ros′], properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in] a piece of ground. . . . Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole.”—Edited by P. Fairbairn (London, 1874), Vol. I, p. 376.

Was that the case in connection with the execution of God’s Son? It is noteworthy that the Bible also uses the word xy′lon to identify the device used. A Greek-English Lexicon, by Liddell and Scott, defines this as meaning: “Wood cut and ready for use, firewood, timber, etc. . . . piece of wood, log, beam, post . . . cudgel, club . . . stake on which criminals were impaled . . . of live wood, tree.” It also says “in NT, of the cross,” and cites Acts 5:30 and Ac 10:39 as examples. (Oxford, 1968, pp. 1191, 1192) However, in those verses KJ, RS, JB, and Dy translate xy′lon as “tree.” (Compare this rendering with Galatians 3:13; Deuteronomy 21:22, 23.)
<<end quote>>

Noteworthy it is that the crossbeam and rendering of the word Stauros as Cross came into use later!  But Originally it meant upright stake, or pale.  Also the word xylou (tree) is used to describe the instrument to which Jesus was put to death on.  A tree is not a cross!  In fact I have never seen a tree shaped like a cross, even with all it's branches still attached!  But a tree is an upright stake, is it not?  Look at a tree and see for yourself.

So how does the KJV Bible contradict itself and why these verses are not used by ones who want to keep holding on to the Cross in their worship to God as a reminder.  Let's take a gander:

1 Peter 2:21-24 KJV " For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:  23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:  24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed."

Clearly verse 24 calls the instrument that Jesus died on a tree!  

Galatians 3:13 KJV "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:"

Acts 5:30 KJV "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree."

Acts 10:39 KJV "And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:"

Acts 13:29 KJV "And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre."

Also, Jesus himself told of the manner of his death and compared the way he was to die to the serpent that Moses was told to put upon a pole, not a cross!

Let's read what Jesus said and the scripture he was referring to:

John 3:14 KJV "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:"

and the scripture Jesus was referring to:

Numbers 21:8,9 KJV "And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.  9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived."

So we can see Jesus said himself said he would die on a pole, not a cross!  

(side note, the copper serpent was not to be worshipped because the Bible points out that some started to worship it and made an idol out of it.  Which God did not approve of 2 Kings 18:4.  We can see today that even though some may claim they do not worship the Cross, it has been made into an IDOL, just as that copper serpent was, which was totally against God!)

Once again, it's clear that it was not a cross!  So why in some places does the KJV say cross and in other places it says TREE!  Makes you wonder what else is being tampered with, and if Stauros was only later changed to cross, why would the KJV not use the original meaning "upright stake" to coincide with the other scriptures that clearly say TREE in their Bible version!  Something to think about, rather than believe a person, do the research and see for yourself!  Jesus did not die on a Cross, and the use of a Cross in worship period was not and is not approved by God!  Even the faulty KJV proves that!

When you have people try to get around that to make what they do OK by twisting scriptures around when it's clear as day, then you have to ask yourself, is this something I want to take part in and do I want to go against God himself?


The Bible has the last word!


Sister T

Jehovah`s Witness

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I can answer questions related to Jehovah's Witnesses and the Bible. I love learning the truth from the Bible and helping others to learn that truth as well. I don't know everything but will answer from the Bible, I like to use illustrations as well to help a person relate to what is being said. The Bible has the last say so over any person.

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I am an active baptized Jehovah's Witness and Jehovah is Almighty God,(Ps. 83:18) and his Son Jesus Christ died so that everyone exercising faith in him may not be destroyed but have everlasting life. (John 3:16). I support my fellow Witnesses on this board who are real, and Jehovah's worldwide visible organization, including the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. As God is not a God of disorder, and there could not be order if there were not ones to take the lead. Taking the lead and having a leader is not the same, our leader is Jesus Christ, and in order to have unity and order, there has to be arrangements in place. As the first century Christians had, there were men taking the lead, (Acts 6:1-6) as with Moses, (Exodus 18:21) and in our day, in following with Bible truths, we do the same. When people twist that around to us worshiping men, it is just a straight out lie! Why would the Scripture at 1 Tim. 3:1-10, 12, 13 give the criteria for men reaching out for an office of overseer if that was not meant to be? (Phil 1:1, Acts 20:17, 28, Eph. 4:11, 12, 2 Cor. 3:4-6). If we were not supposed to have men who take the lead, why was this scripture penned? James 5:14-15 "Is there anyone sick among YOU? Let him call the older men of the congregation to [him], and let them pray over him, greasing [him] with oil in the name of Jehovah. 15 And the prayer of faith will make the indisposed one well, and Jehovah will raise him up. Also, if he has committed sins, it will be forgiven him."

Organizations
If you have legit questions and want to know the truth, please ask, but if you are here to spread your lies and twists of the scriptures or get your falsehoods out, you may get rejected! The truth is from the Bible, if what you say does not harmonize with the Bible then what you say is wrong! Context and other scriptures help determine scriptures that may stump us, let scripture interpret scripture. The Bible does not contradict itself, so if what you are being taught or if what you are teaching makes it seem like the Bible is contradictory, remember it's not the Bible it's the man-made teaching! Doctrines of men! Mark 7:6, 7 "He said to them: “Isaiah aptly prophesied about YOU hypocrites, as it is written, ‘This people honor me with [their] lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. 7 It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach as doctrines commands of men." (also Romans 10:2, 3)

Education/Credentials
Matthew 24:14 says "And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come." We are doing that today, we are living in times of Bible Prophecy and as a Jehovah's Witness, we have the privilege to be apart of a prophecy spoken by Jesus himself! The good news of the Kingdom. Ask yourself, what kingdom? then read Daniel 2:44! It's a real government. Take heed now! Listening to men over God will mean your life.(Prov 3:5,6, Ps. 146:3) A lie will never become truth, No matter how long or how many people say it or speak it. Learn what the Bible really teaches, seek out Jehovah's ways, serving God in truth is only acceptable to him,(John 4:23, 24) you can not be serving God acceptably if what you believe is a lie! Pray for understanding and ask Jehovah to search your heart and draw you! (John 6:44, 65) Now is the time to be with the people who are called by Jehovah's name! (Acts 15:14, 17, Isa. 43:7, 10, Zech 8:23)

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