Jehovah`s Witness/Panta

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Question
QUESTION: Hello Brenton



First I want you to know that I'm still formulating my response to you... Honestly, I'm satisfied with your answer regarding JESUS = MICHAEL(in private discussion). But still there's something that I can't just explain so please give me time to complete my response.

Anyway, I have another question, you know when it comes to col 1:16, 17 and etc. most of the critics would say that JW's inserted the word "OTHER" there to justify their belief that Jesus was just the the "channel of an act" so he's not actually the "originator" but instead he's just a "masterworker" ... And I heard it very often from JWs(especially you) that the greek word "panta" there is an inflected from of 'pas' ??? What's the PROOF for that scholarly-like claim of JWs? I don't think there's any of the respected greek grammatical book that agrees with the JW.. if you have, can I see it? Thanks



Looking forward

ANSWER: Hi Dave,

I have been working on a reply for this, and then I read it again, and I would like to have some more information please  When you asked

 __________________ " What's the PROOF for that scholarly-like claim of JWs?"

Just what are you referring to. Are you referring to....


__________________    "And I heard it very often from JWs(especially you) that the greek word "panta" there is an inflected form of 'pas' "

SO are you wanting to know what others say about "panta: being an inflected form of pas
Or, are you referring to....

 ________________     "you know when it comes to col 1:16, 17 and etc. most of the critics would say that JW's inserted the word "OTHER" there to justify their belief that Jesus was just the the "channel of an act" so he's not actually the "originator" but instead he's just a "masterworker" "

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thank you for asking a clarification sir


Well, yes I want to know what others say about "panta" being an inflected form of "pas" ... because I haven't read any books from a respected Greek grammarians that says "exactly" as that... Infact, if that's true, as JWs claim, then why "all" bible translations(except NWT) DO NOT FOLLOW with that claim? What's the proof for that really??


Looking forward

Answer
Hi Dave,

I am sorry about the confusion.  I should have learnt by now by my own experience reading other peoples material that there are words  or terms that a lot of people do not understand.  I used one of those terms  There is nothing out of the ordinary about the term “Inflected Form”.  You will not find it in any dictionary relating to a particular word.  It is a grammatical term that   describes what is done to a base word   “Inflected Form” means an alteration of the form of a word by adding, say a prefix,  or a suffix to a base word.  

For example the base word run can be changed by adding “ing” to running. Other inflected forms of run are runs and ran.  The base word speak can be changed  to speech.  The base word has the same meaning (of someone who can speak ) but applies to a different situation

see these web sites

http://grammar.about.com/od/il/g/inflecterm.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflection

The inflective form has nothing to do with the rendering "all [other] things" in Colosians 1:16 (NWT). So when I said the “panta” was an inflected form of “pas” that is just saying that pas is the base word that panta is built from.  It is unlikely you will find a Greek gramma that will specifically say that “panta” was an inflected form of “pas” any more than you would find an English grammar that will specifically say, when using the word  sunny will tern around and say “sunny is the inflective form of sun”  (unless they happen to chose those words to illustrate what an inflective form is)

Dave, I am not sure what you are asking when you said
______________” Infact, if that's true, as JWs claim, then why "all"bible translations(except NWT) DO NOT FOLLOW with that claim? What's the proof for that really?? “

If that has not been answered please clarify for me what it is you were wanting to know.

The inserting of the word [other] has to do with clarifying the context of the chapter as per previous discution.   Without the inclusion of the word [other] that would mean that Jesus created the Father (God) when "all things were created in heaven and on earth".  Is not God the Father of Jesus in heaven?

The ward pas can mean universal all or it can mean "all sorts"; "any" "all manner" etc as per the way the base word "pas" and its verious inflections are rendered in the KJV and the New American Version

In the KJV it is used 748 times in its different forms or as a compound word  

AV-all 748, all things 170, every 117, all men 41, whosoever 31, everyone 28, whole 12, all manner of 11, every man 11,  every thing 7, any 7, whatsoever 6,  any thing 2, not tr 7, misc 26; 1243

This is it used with another word (the number after the + is the extra Greek word)
no + 3756 9, whosoever + 3739 + 302 3, always + 1223 3, no + 3361 2,daily + 2250 2,

This is its use in the New American Standard Version

NAS-all (731), all the things (7), all  …  things (1), all kinds (1), all men (14), all people (4), all respects (3), all things (126), all (1), always (3), any (16), any at all (1), anyone (3), anything (3), anything (1), continually (6), entire (4), every (128), every form (1), every kind (9), every respect (1), every way (2), everyone (71), everyone’s (1), everyone (1), everything (45), forever (1), full (2), great (2), no (15), none (1), nothing (1), nothing (1), one (4), perfectly (1), quite (1), whatever (3), whatever (1), whoever (7), whole (18).  

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Brenton Hepburn

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I AM one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and I am always learning. I am NOT an expert in the full sense of the word but I can answer questions on the reliability of the NWT - the so called mind control problems-so called prophecies - how being a JW affects the individual and relatives and general practices and history of Jehovah’s Witnesses. >>WARNING<< Please be aware that there are people here who ARE NOT practicing JWs. By all means ask these ones questions. Depending on the question you will get an honest answer, but, generally the answer you get, will mislead you as to what we believe, often because, they do not give ALL the relevant details. These ones will, have an agenda against JWs., and will at times give answers that are not correct in regard to JW teachings and practices. If you are after a answer from one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, please read some of the answers that the various experts have published before choosing someone. If you want to ask one of the NON JWs a question, that is fine, BUT if you want a balancing view after asking one of the NON JWs, ask a JW the same question. PLEASE ALSO NOTE: There(have been)and are, some "experts" here who are NOT always the most courteous and polite, at times are actually quite rude, that applies to both JW's and non JW's and their answers may offend, especially when they get personal and attack the character of the person and not the message. Unfortunately some here that have done that. So it IS IMPORTANT to chose an "expert" that YOU feel will best suit YOU by reading some of their past answers . . . . .

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I have been a publisher since 1964. When I first went on the internet I found a lot of negative information dealing with Jehovah’s Witnesses covering prophecy, mind control and what many said was a very bad translation of the Bible known as the NWT. It shook my faith. After may hours researching these topics I could see why some felt that way, but, I was also able to explain why there were these misleading views. I can now set matters straight for anyone that has negative information about Jehovah’s Witness to show them that such information is at best misleading and at worst dangerous lies.

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I have been a student of the Bible for many years, am trying to teach myself Biblical Greek. Was a public tax accountant for many years untill SEP 2009 when I gave it up due to health problems.

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