QUESTION: Hello Brenton
First I want you to know that I'm still formulating my response to you... Honestly, I'm satisfied with your answer regarding JESUS = MICHAEL(in private discussion). But still there's something that I can't just explain so please give me time to complete my response.
Anyway, I have another question, you know when it comes to col 1:16, 17 and etc. most of the critics would say that JW's inserted the word "OTHER" there to justify their belief that Jesus was just the the "channel of an act" so he's not actually the "originator" but instead he's just a "masterworker" ... And I heard it very often from JWs(especially you) that the greek word "panta" there is an inflected from of 'pas'
??? What's the PROOF for that scholarly-like claim of JWs? I don't think there's any of the respected greek grammatical book that agrees with the JW.. if you have, can I see it? Thanks
ANSWER: Hi Dave,
I have been working on a reply for this, and then I read it again, and I would like to have some more information please When you asked
__________________ " What's the PROOF for that scholarly-like claim of JWs?"
Just what are you referring to. Are you referring to....
__________________ "And I heard it very often from JWs(especially you) that the greek word "panta" there is an inflected form of 'pas'
SO are you wanting to know what others say about "panta: being an inflected form of pas
Or, are you referring to....
________________ "you know when it comes to col 1:16, 17 and etc. most of the critics would say that JW's inserted the word "OTHER" there to justify their belief that Jesus was just the the "channel of an act" so he's not actually the "originator" but instead he's just a "masterworker" "
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Thank you for asking a clarification sir
Well, yes I want to know what others say about "panta" being an inflected form of "pas" ... because I haven't read any books from a respected Greek grammarians that says "exactly" as that... Infact, if that's true, as JWs claim, then why "all" bible translations(except NWT) DO NOT FOLLOW with that claim? What's the proof for that really??
I am sorry about the confusion. I should have learnt by now by my own experience reading other peoples material that there are words or terms that a lot of people do not understand. I used one of those terms There is nothing out of the ordinary about the term “Inflected Form”. You will not find it in any dictionary relating to a particular word. It is a grammatical term that describes what is done to a base word “Inflected Form” means an alteration of the form of a word by adding, say a prefix, or a suffix to a base word.
For example the base word run can be changed by adding “ing” to running. Other inflected forms of run are runs and ran. The base word speak can be changed to speech. The base word has the same meaning (of someone who can speak ) but applies to a different situation
see these web sites
The inflective form has nothing to do with the rendering "all [other] things" in Colosians 1:16 (NWT). So when I said the “panta” was an inflected form of “pas” that is just saying that pas is the base word that panta is built from. It is unlikely you will find a Greek gramma that will specifically say that “panta” was an inflected form of “pas” any more than you would find an English grammar that will specifically say, when using the word sunny will tern around and say “sunny is the inflective form of sun” (unless they happen to chose those words to illustrate what an inflective form is)
Dave, I am not sure what you are asking when you said
______________” Infact, if that's true, as JWs claim, then why "all"bible translations(except NWT) DO NOT FOLLOW with that claim? What's the proof for that really?? “
If that has not been answered please clarify for me what it is you were wanting to know.
The inserting of the word [other] has to do with clarifying the context of the chapter as per previous discution. Without the inclusion of the word [other] that would mean that Jesus created the Father (God) when "all
things were created in heaven
and on earth". Is not God the Father of Jesus in heaven?
The ward pas can mean universal all or it can mean "all sorts"; "any" "all manner" etc as per the way the base word "pas" and its verious inflections are rendered in the KJV and the New American Version
In the KJV it is used 748 times in its different forms or as a compound word
AV-all 748, all things 170, every 117, all men 41, whosoever 31, everyone 28, whole 12, all manner of
11, every man 11, every thing 7, any
6, any thing 2, not tr 7, misc 26; 1243
This is it used with another word (the number after the + is the extra Greek word)
no + 3756 9, whosoever + 3739 + 302 3, always + 1223 3, no + 3361 2,daily + 2250 2,
This is its use in the New American Standard Version
NAS-all (731), all the things (7), all … things (1), all kinds
(1), all men (14), all people (4), all respects (3), all things (126), all (1), always (3), any (16), any at all (1), anyone (3), anything (3), anything (1), continually (6), entire (4), every (128), every form (1), every kind (9), every respect (1), every way (2), everyone (71), everyone’s (1), everyone (1), everything (45), forever (1), full (2), great (2), no (15), none (1), nothing (1), nothing (1), one (4), perfectly (1), quite (1), whatever
(3), whatever (1), whoever
(7), whole (18).