Jehovah`s Witness/Pure ignorance

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QUESTION: Hi Derrick  Is it me, or does Eddie G. And Sister T.  continually prove our points with their childish attempts of of deflection as some sort of damage control?? Hate to clue them in, but it's too late. I  find   it amusing that Mr. Ed and the Sister use each other to respond to our comments. I guess they just can't stand not getting their  two cent in.  It's all so apparent just by reading this forum. You can see the pattern of behavior. Look at how Linda G. And Jay responded to Sister T  abrupt change of demeanor when you don't accept her first response.
 What about Mark trying to show Eddie another point of view?  Finally, Eddie just gives up and ignores it all. This is just a few recent examples, I am sure if you went back,  there would be plenty more. Jw's remind me of politicians. When asked a question that is not favorable to their position, they will give long, drawn out non answers in an attempt to avert. They will answer with their "talking points" and ALWAYS stay on message by repeating it over and over, whether it had  anything to do with the question or not. They aren't fooling anyone with this tactic.  Thanks again for listening.

ANSWER: Hello, Rita.  How are you today?  Wow, been quite a couple of weeks on the board, huh?  These people never cease to amaze.

Rita, I want to start out by saying that I am going to address the points you raised, at the beginning of my answer, because they are very valid points, as always.  I am also going to use the latter part of this answer, to bring out some things that I feel need to be said, even though they are things you didn't ask specifically about.  Its because it fits in with what we are talking about....the mannerisms and conduct of certain JWs.  

I do not know how it is, that 2 or 3 of the JWs here have always managed to give competent answers and do so in a way that doesn't make their religion look like it is full of loons, and these others (that you mentioned, and some I will mention) just don't seem to be able to get it.  

Again, I am going to mention a few other instances with another "expert", as well, because of where you made mention that there would be "plenty more" examples, if we "went back".  I am going to go back a little ways, and bring some additional things out

You know, Rita, I have come to the conclusion that these people (Eddie, Rando, Sister T) honestly CANNOT write anything, without misrepresentations, misquotes, or outright untruths.  Its perfectly fine when a person doesn't know much about a given subject, but it is not perfectly fine when they presume to discuss, and pretend to be an expert, on the subject they know next to nothing about.  I've been on this board for going on 13 years now, and I have seen this trend play out over and over again.  Especially since Rando joined the forum in 2007, and it has only increased since Sister T, DW, and Eddie G came along.

I have noticed certain trends that they follow.  Eddie's thing seems to be, to avoid directly answering a simple question, misrepresent other people's beliefs, and tell everyone how superior the morals of those in the Organization are, above everyone else's.  Sister T's thing is to repeat incessantly, that the "opposers tell lies about us", while NEVER ONCE giving an example of any lie.  I guess if you repeat something enough, it magically becomes the truth.  Sister T has repeated this accusation like a broken record, and has been asked several times to provide one example of a lie, or where I misrepresent the doctrines of JWs.  Unlike them, if I make an error, I will correct it.  They are the ones who feel free to misrepresent the beliefs of others, and they feel that is perfectly fine.  Then, they turn right around and accuse us of doing what THEY are doing.  Amazing!

Let me just point out the accuracy of your first statement, when you write...

"Is it me, or does Eddie G. And Sister T.  continually prove our points with their childish attempts of of deflection as some sort of damage control?? Hate to clue them in, but it's too late. I  find   it amusing that Mr. Ed and the Sister use each other to respond to our comments."


No, its not just you, Rita.  MANY people have noticed the same thing.  Funny thing, Sister T still repeats constantly, that this is a forum FOR Jehovah's Witnesses only, to answer questions.  I don't know if she actually believes that, or just thinks it sounds good.  Either way, she is completely inaccurate, as she has been shown time and time again.  Allexperts is a forum that does NOT require a person to actually be a practicing member of a religion, provided that the person has sufficient knowledge about the religion to give accurate answers on it.  Since this forum belongs to Allexperts and NOT the Watchtower Society, then Allexperts gets to make the rules about who can join....not Sister T.  And by the way, the non-JWs for the most part, give FAR more accurate answers than the sanitized "answers" given by JWs.

But yes, they do exactly what you pointed out.  They prove the point we are making, over and over and over and over and over again.  

Once again, you have to understand the mentality of the zealous, but less-intelligent JWs here.  What I am about to say, is NOT a reference to the 2 or 3 who actually act like they have some sense, and some integrity.  But the ones you mentioned, in addition to Rando, and to a point, DW, have a strange mentality that makes them feel that a person who answers contrary to the Organiztion, MUST be attacked and slandered.  This is their duty!  It matters not if the attacks are true or accurate, because a bigger goal is in view here....DISCREDIT THE OPPOSER BY ANY MEANS....ALL IN THE NAME OF DEFENDING JEHOVAH'S "TRUTHFUL" ORGANIZATION!!!!"  

Now, the ironic thing is, they complain about the non-Witnesses here answering questions, but just read the forum and see who receiveS the most complaints about NOT answering the question asked....Yep, its the JWs.  Now why is that?  I watched in amazement, at Eddie G doing everything BUT answering Mark's question.  

Rita, I am not trying to be insulting towards them, but I honestly believe they are clueless.  They have a set of "talking points", as you said, and they just repeat that.  In the years I've been here, I have seen countless times where the questioner would get frustrated, because the JW would play the game of:

1.  Not answering the actual question

2.  Rejecting subsequent follow-ups, claiming that "I've answered your question, but you just didn't like my answer".  Or if the follow-up isn't rejected, they eventually start berating the questioner for being so stupid as to not be able to see the answer that isn't there.

Yes, its amusing to watch them use each other, to respond to what we have said.  And you notice that you and I have both been the subject of slander, having our motives questioned, and our character attacked.  Now, that's nothing new for me, but I'm just sorry they feel the need to do it with you for asking questions, and relating your experiences with your family member.  Its uncalled for, and there is certainly nothing "Christian" about it, and Eddie G and Sister T ought to be ashamed of themselves.  How they can believe they are doing God a service, only speaks volumes to how their thinking capacities have been distorted.


You said...."I guess they just can't stand not getting their  two cent in."

Yes, and the problem is, that is about all most of the comments are worth.


Now, I want to be fair.  In the past, I have often responded by posting through my own profile, a refutation of what they write.  Sometimes in defense of Christian doctrine, and sometimes in defense of myself, when they employ lying slander, which has been quite often.  In these latest writings of theirs, I chose not to bother responding to the most recent series of attacks and lies being told, because quite honestly, it is so amusing that I don't think anybody reading is really affected by it.  However, if they have something they would like to discuss with me in regards to a Bible doctrine (the Trinity, the Personality of the Holy Spirit, etc.), then they are more than welcome to let me know this, and I will be happy to oblige.

Fact is, Rando speaks more about the Trinity than anyone else here, and understands LESS about it, than anyone else here.  That is why you read so many foolish statements about it, coming from a man who not only doesn't care about telling the truth about anything, but knows nothing about the subjects he writes about.  

The problem with these people, Rita, is that they are so bent on slandering me for the purpose of damage control (as you mentioned), that they cannot even remember which lie they told last.

Consider this example, from dear old Rando.  This is a man I have dealt with for 6 years now, and I can honestly tell you that I am fully, 100% convinced that he is under the control of demonic spirits.  He goes beyond just being a nut....there is something wicked and sinister about someone who KNOWS they lie, and continue to do it anyway, and will not even deny that they are doing it, but believing that somehow Jehovah God will look on it with approval, despite His saying about a hundred times that He HATES lying.  

I will post you some links from Rando, for your reading enjoyment, and so you can better understand why I say he is demonic.  

But back to the latest example of an outright contradiction from him, in his zeal to slander me.  Both of these comments, were posted within the past week.


On August 20, Rando writes the following lie (concerning me).....“I know of Kevin and he is a Modalist through and through, he doesn't believe God is three separate persons but of different natures/modes. What's interesting is that Derrick Holland abandoned the Trinity dogma in pursuit of the Modalism view. Nothing new, since he has no integrity whatsoever. I see here from Derrick writings is Sabellianism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabellianism”


Rando has a unique ability to squeeze more lies into a short paragraph, than anyone I have ever seen.  First off, he does NOT know of this Kevin that wrote me.  He forgets that there are at least 3 people with this name who write this forum, and the one who wrote me is not even the same one he is thinking of.  And the one he is thinking of, is NOT a "Modalist" either.

But notice that Rando says that "Derrick Holland abandoned the Trinity dogma in pursuit of the Modalism view".

But then, in his very next writing, he seems to have forgotten about the lie he had just told the day before, and he writes this blatant contradiction of what he had previously stated….

 
The VERY NEXT DAY, he posts the following (concerning me)...."“Researching the Bible itself is not Derrick's strong suit, for he loves Apostate doctrines such as The Trinity that is nothing more than an Anti-Christian doctrinal lie opposing Jesus as the Christ.”


Now Rita, I ask you....How is it that I have "abandoned the Trinity" for another doctrine, and then he can turn around and say "Derrick LOVES APOSTATE DOCTRINES SUCH AS THE TRINITY"?

When a person is a habitual liar, they usually forget what their last lie was, and end up contradicting themselves.  


And as for Sister T, I think she is quite sincere.  In fact, I'm sure of it.  But she simply doesn't have the knowledge to give solid Bible answers, is very gullible, and becomes frustrated with her questioners when they show her the holes in her "logic".  She then claims she has "refuted" them, but they are just an "opposer", or something of that sort.  

Yes Rita, you are correct....If you go back, you will see PLENTY more.  I could give you example after example.  

I truly do not believe these people can answer anything, and get their facts correct.  I've simply seen it too many times.

For example, Rando lied when he claimed I have "abandoned the Trinity" in favor of Modalism.  Now the truth is, Rando's posts on the Trinty over the past several years, prove that he doesn't have a clue what the difference between the two, is.  And that's okay, except that he continues to write his nonsense about it.  The TRUTH is, I am Trinitarian to the core, and I have ALWAYS been Trinitarian since joining this forum, and have never made a single statement otherwise.  

So, Rando lied.  Do you know WHY he lied?  I'll tell you....The fact is, Rando has spent the better part of 6 years on this board, LYING about the Trinity.  He has continually misrepresented what it says.  He claims:

1.  Trinitarians believe in 3 "gods"

2.  Trinitarians deny that Jesus is the Christ (in spite of the fact that we constantly refer to Him as Jesus Christ)

And his all-time most ridiculous statement on this topic....

3.  That the Trinity teaches that God became man, so that man can become God.

ALL of those statements are lies.  He lies about it, because he cannot REFUTE it.  He has been invited several times to have an open and public debate on this forum, by me, and by several other Christian readers.  He ALWAYS refuses, but instead, prefers to throw his lies out there from the safety of his anonymity, and where he doesn't actually have to have a back-and-forth dialogue with someone who can tear his arguments apart from the Bible.


From day one, I have always simple asked 2 things from these people.....That they get their facts STRAIGHT when speaking of Christian doctrine, and that they ACT like Christians.  They simply cannot seem to do it.

Like Eddie G telling the reading audience the other week, that Christians WORSHIP crosses!  Have you ever heard of anything so ludicrous?  Does he know that's a lie, or is he just that ignorant?  "Pure ignorance", as your question title states?  I don't know...but either way, he certainly has no business making a statement like that in a public forum.  

There have been so many nonsensical statements from these people here recently, that there is no way to cover them all.

Rita, I know you didn't ask about Rando, but his conduct is exactly as you describe in these others, and even worse.  But he has been up to something else that this board needs to know about.  In addition to his lying and documented dishonesty, I discovered he has NOW taken to REVISING his previous answers, in order to remove incriminating statements that he has made.  This is a feature that we "experts" have in our accounts....We can go back and print a revised answer, or REMOVE statements, and the board then prints the revised response in place of the original response.

Now, let it be known that he has NEVER apologized or issued a retraction to me, for his slander, despite being asked repeatedly to do so, and being shown from the Scripture WHY he should.  If he had done this, then removing the statements would be the correct move.  But he hasn't....he merely wants to "hide the evidence", as if he never said it.  

Unfortunately for him, I already had most of the answers saved, so he isn't going to get away with it.  


Here's a few of Rando's gems, to show the spirit he operates under...

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Jehovah-s-Witness-1617/Derrick-Holland-Legion.htm

In the above link, Rando posted this question to himself.  In that quote, he claims I was a former baptized JW, and that I have lied when I claim my mother is a JW.  Now, the TRUTH is, I have NEVER been a baptized JW, and my mother IS a JW in good standing.  

However, notice in his response, THERE ISN'T ONE!  You know why?  Because there is a feature that allows experts to go back and revise their previous answers, and Mr. "Honest", "Christian", "Godly", and "Follower of Jehovah God" Rando, has REMOVED his answers that incriminate him.  Now, the question itself, he can't touch or change in any way (what a bummer, huh Rando?).  That's why you still see it there.  But he CAN remove the answer.

(Tell us again, Eddie G, how "liars" are dealt with and removed from the congregation?  And tell us again how "morally superior" JWs are above everyone else?  And tell us also how you can associate, and refer to a man like this, as "Brother", in light of what the Bible says about a lying tongue and those who practice deceit?)

Rita, here is the answer that Rando originally gave to this question, and which remained there until here recently, when he removed it from this question.....

QUOTE FROM RANDO:  "At the moment Jehovah withdraws his "breath of life" from you. You will defiantly know the Jehovah is the ONLY TRUE GOD. Just before you expire on that day, you and your friends will see a dog lapping up your very soul and there will be no remembrance of you. Give that to your so called mom that is imposing as a JW. LOL Jehovah himself will laugh at you. (Psalms 2:4) Hallelujah! The wicked one will be NO MORE! You spit on Jehovah's Holy Spirit, I spit on your carcass that will serve has meaty parts for the birds.  Aka, luis, scott, edward, rod, raymond, cc, hyne, lora, monica, jamie, john. Go prosecute yourself."

END QUOTE


Aside from the fact that I am none of those people listed above, does this sound like the way someone who is a follower of Christ, and led by God's Spirit, would speak?


Next link, where Rando removes a damaging statement....

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Jehovah-s-Witness-1617/Three-Angels-visit-Abraham.htm

Rando just told the questioner (himself), that the name of the 3 angels who appeared to Abraham, were "Michael, Gabriel, and Abaddon".  Since the JWs teach that Jesus is BOTH Michael AND Abaddon, it remains unexplained how it is that they appear here as separate angels, when BOTH of them are Jesus.  (And this is the guy who is educating us on who Jesus is??)

Now, he followed up with "How do you know these things"?  And Rando replied by saying....ITS IN THE SCRIPTURES".  After I put intense pressure on Rando to show us where these Scriptures are, Rando removes the damaging statements.

I guess what Rando told us was "in the Scriptures", really wasn't there after all.  So, the guy who is supposed to be so knowledgeable on the identity of Jesus Christ, has Jesus Christ being 2 SEPARATE angels, and BOTH of those angels appearing right beside each other, at the same time.  Yeah, if I had told someone that nonsense was "in the Scriptures", I guess I'd want it removed, too.


In this one, he tells another outright, slanderous lie....

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Jehovah-s-Witness-1617/Derrick-Propaganda.htm


Rando states that he "found out" that I was an apostate, which was a lie.  I have never been a JW, and he "found out" nothing in regards to my ever being a JW.  He posted that one, Rita, because JWs are not supposed to converse with "apostates", and he was getting pummeled in our conversations, so he needed an excuse to get out of them.  This was the excuse he used...he made up a lie about "finding out" I was an apostate.  Of course, if he has any evidence that this claim is true, then he is welcome to post it.  So far, he has chosen not to come forward with it.

Wonder why?


Here is one, where he claims he is going to be put to death in a similar manner to Jesus....

"The manner in how I am going to be put to death is not revealed to me. It is possible that I may be put to death without being sealed as a member of the 144,000. Some have been throughly tested and died in a warm bed. I won't have the luxury of dying in a warm bed, I will be humiliated for all to see, a death similar to Christ. Then in the twinkling of an eye I will be changed. (1 Cor 15:52)

I have the Heavenly Hope, but Jehovah decides with his Spirit by sealing me."

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Jehovah-s-Witness-1617/2008/1/death-12.htm



This man has come up with some of the looniest statements, and most outrageous lies, that I have ever seen from someone claiming to be a "Christian".  He has posted several times that I have claimed Herod was a Christian, and even Eddie G had to reluctantly admit that Rando was "mistaken" on that one.  I could go on and on, but I know you are probably tired of reading about a question you didn't even ask, so I'll leave it there for now.

I apologize, but this has needed to be said for some time now, especially the part about how he is now going back and revising his previous answers to make it appear he never said these things.  Something just told me awhile back, that I should save the comments.  Glad I did now.

TO Rando (because I know you're reading)....A short while back, I wrote to you with a very simple question....."Do you DENY that you have lied in this forum, and will you have the Christian integrity to retract your lie, and tell the truth"

I am sure you remember my sending you that, and I am sure you also remember that you refused to answer it, so you did what cowards always do...You rejected it.  Why would a person who has never lied, reject a question, when the false statements are right there in print?  You should have either retracted and apologized, or provided proof that the statements were true.  Instead, you refused to answer, like a guilty man would.

So now, Rando...Do you deny that you have gone back, and REMOVED damaging statements from your past answers, because they kept exposing you for the person that you are?


And to Eddie G, Sister T, and the rest, we have but one simple request for you......If you claim to represent and call your religion "the truth", how about TELLING the truth, for a change?

Rita, thanks once again for writing with your observations of the latest comedy act that this board has become.  As always, it is good to hear from you.  Keep in touch, and God bless!


Derrick










---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Derrick, The  information you provided was astounding. I don't know much about this Rando character, because I pretty much dismissed him as any kind of credible "expert" due to his bizarre responses. I would never have the patience for anyone like him. He is either completely "out of touch" with reality, or he is just not being serious and uses his lunacy remarks to get a rise from others, to amuse himself. Either way, he is a waste of time.          
        As far as some of the other ones, really, what else would you expect. They expect people to just accept their first response as the truth and question no more. This is what the Watchtower demands of them, and because they are not free thinking individuals, they oblige. They understand nothing else, and do not know how to properly deal with follow ups, and challenging rebuttals that refuted what they said. This probably is why we see  a lot of "non answers" that go on and on with no definitive answer anywhere to be found, followed then by, name calling, accusations, and flat out lies. Finally defeated, they hit the reject button. Pathetic isn't it?  
       I don't see what they are trying to accomplish here? They get so defensive, and their demeanor turns ugly so quickly, that people see this as a big negative, not wanting to know anymore about jw's, at least not from these people. This is what they just don't get. They would benefit greatly by at trying to see where the other person is coming from.
       When you tell the truth, you do not have to have a good memory. Might want to pass that along to buddy Rando.
        Take Care Derrick, thanks for the enlightening information. Always interesting.

Answer
Good afternoon, Rita.  I hope all is going well for you today.  You know, I felt sort of bad for loading you up with all of that stuff, and I can only imagine you were reading and thinking...."What on earth?"...lol.  Its just that the question was in regards to JW conduct here, and since all 3 of them were doing their thing these past few weeks, I just thought I would use my reply to point out some of Rando's latest shenanigans, as well.
 

You said..." I don't know much about this Rando character, because I pretty much dismissed him as any kind of credible "expert" due to his bizarre responses."


Probably the best move.  I think most people who happen on this board and read his responses, arrive at the same conclusion.  The problem with my doing it, is that as a volunteer on this site, he tried to make me his target back in 2007.  He first started leaving little "Add On" comments after my answers, which ironically, he doesn't have the courage to allow people to do with HIS answers because he knows they won't hold up to scrutiny.  Then, he joined the board, and almost immediately began spreading malicious lies about me and other Christians (but primarily me), ranging from spousal abuse, having different profiles, and sexual harassment.  Of course, all of these accusations were simply made up by him, and completely false.  He has been asked to provide the evidence for his claims publicly, but he never has, for obvious reasons.  The man simply has no integrity at all, does not obey the God he claims to love, Who hates a lying tongue (Proverbs 6:16-17), and has historically, been one of the "experts" here who has received the most complaints about his conduct.  

You think what I sent you was astounding?  That was just a small sampling.  I didn't want to bore you with the REALLY bad stuff....lol.


You said...."I would never have the patience for anyone like him. He is either completely "out of touch" with reality, or he is just not being serious and uses his lunacy remarks to get a rise from others, to amuse himself. Either way, he is a waste of time."


Yeah, he's a hard one to peg.  There have been several JWs speculate that he is not a real Witness, but is only here to give the religion a bad name, which he has definitely done.  But there are also JWs who know him outside of this board, and verify that he is a Witness.  My personal belief is that he is a real JW, but is just mentally disturbed, and yes, under the control of something evil.  There is no way a person can lie like he does, and even THINK like he does, unless something is behind it.  


You said...."As far as some of the other ones, really, what else would you expect. They expect people to just accept their first response as the truth and question no more. This is what the Watchtower demands of them, and because they are not free thinking individuals, they oblige. They understand nothing else, and do not know how to properly deal with follow ups, and challenging rebuttals that refuted what they said. This probably is why we see  a lot of "non answers" that go on and on with no definitive answer anywhere to be found, followed then by, name calling, accusations, and flat out lies. Finally defeated, they hit the reject button. Pathetic isn't it?"


Yes, it really is.  But I believe you hit on something here.  As I have stated before, I want to be clear again....I have no problem with a JW trying to defend their beliefs, as errant as I happen to think those beliefs are.  Their stating what they believe, and trying to defend it, is not the problem.  I would expect nothing less.  Its the WAY they do it.  If it is necessary to lie, avoid the question, berate the questioner, or slander the person who disagrees with them, then that should tell them something about the belief they are defending.  Real TRUTH should never need to be defended in that manner.

It goes back to what you said before...."talking points".  The average JW who goes door-to-door, probably only occasionally finds someone who actually KNOWS their Bible very well.  Sad to say, most Christians are not as Biblically knowledgeable as they should be, or at least not knowledgeable in the arguments JWs use.  So, the JW comes to the door prepared, and the homeowner usually isn't, because they didn't know the JW was coming.  This is where the "talking points" come in.  The JWs prepare, are coached, and even do mock presentations in front of the congregation (at least they did when I grew up in the Kingdom Hall, although I haven't been since my early teen years), as to how to handle situations or questions that may come up at the door.  For the most part, these are sufficient for the JW to have a pretty good day in the door-to-door ministry...aka...."service".

But once in awhile, they will encounter someone who is ready, and knows not only the Word of God through and through, but also the doctrines and arguments advanced by Jehovah's Witnesses.  When this happens, the results can be interesting, with the JW having to say something like "That's a good question...I'll have to get back with you on that."  But in the process, the JW will go through the "talking points", and the person who is familiar with their line of reasoning, will illustrate the illogic in those points.  That is when you start to see what you have been seeing on the board....The stuff that Sister T, and others say, like...."Well, I already refuted you, but you refuse to accept it, so there is no point in wasting my time."  Even though nothing the person said was refuted, or even adequately addressed.  

In my opinion, that is why the JW usually has the advantage at the door, but you often see them struggle on this board....Because many of the people who visit this board, are knowledgeable in JW doctrine, and that is why they're here....to engage the JW in conversation that the JW is not prepared for.  

Rita, I don't know how long you have read this board, but there was a series of battles well over a year ago on here, where some JWs were being called out by questioners for their downright rude conduct and answers.  Questioners were being called "dumb", "stupid", etc., on an regular basis.  Even a JW or two wrote in, and tried to point out that this is NOT the way JWs are supposed to act.  A JW expert ON THIS BOARD said she believed that these rude ones were actually apostates, because they are taught not to act in this manner, in the door-to-door ministry.  In reply, one of the JW experts said something interesting....that this forum is a much different format than what they encounter at the door.

In a way, he was right....Not that he was correct that it is okay to berate people on here, but that the format is different.  I think that is why JWs have a much harder time here, than they do at the door, because most of the people at the door they knock on, are not prepared for the "talking points".  Here, there are more people who have heard it a thousand times, and ARE prepared.

Like you said a week or two back....they all give the same word-for-word answers.  Those answers generally work at the door, but not so much here, because many of the people who visit this forum, do so because they are already interested in the beliefs of JWs and have studied them quite extensively, and already have arrived at their conclusion about the group.

You are correct....Many of them do not know how to deal with follow-ups.  Because SURELY that first answer that came right out of their wonderful Watchtower publication, was sufficient to silence any and all objections.  What more needs to be said?  The questioner would DARE not accept that first reply as "truth"??  "Why, who do they think they are, anyway?"  

That's the mentality, it seems.


You said...."This probably is why we see  a lot of "non answers" that go on and on with no definitive answer anywhere to be found, followed then by, name calling, accusations, and flat out lies. Finally defeated, they hit the reject button. Pathetic isn't it?"


You hit the nail right on the head.  I cannot tell you the times I myself have had them reject a question, with the automated message "I've answered this question before", and then I had to write again and ask WHERE the answer was, only to be berated for not grasping it.  Rando's approach was always to avoid answering the question at all costs, and then when the questioner complained about it, to tell them that it was "hidden from them" because they rejected the truth, and that is why they couldn't see it.


You said...."I don't see what they are trying to accomplish here? They get so defensive, and their demeanor turns ugly so quickly, that people see this as a big negative, not wanting to know anymore about jw's, at least not from these people. This is what they just don't get. They would benefit greatly by at trying to see where the other person is coming from."


I agree completely, Rita.  What are they thinking they are accomplishing?  Again, I can give them the benefit of the doubt, that they are sincere and probably just want to do something for the Organization, and in their minds, Jehovah God.  But what they don't realize, is that their mannerisms make their attempts counter-productive.  

Listen, this is between you and me....Well, not really, its on the public forum.  But I will say this....I know for a FACT that there are those who either are, or have been, JW experts on here, who wish that some of the rude ones were not here.  Not because they don't appreciate the effort, but because they recognize that these ones do more harm than good, because their zeal isn't mixed with wisdom and a Christian example.  I know this for a fact, and I am not speculating....I've been told this by more than one of them, in private conversation.  I won't mention any names in this answer because it is public, but I would have no problem giving more detail in private.


Rita, you said...."When you tell the truth, you do not have to have a good memory. Might want to pass that along to buddy Rando."


Believe me, I have tried to tell him that. Worse, I have even written him and given him Scriptures on lying, and asked him how he justifies it?  He never answers it.  And more telling, he doesn't even DENY lying.  He knows it, and I know it.  He simply believes that God will over-look it, because he's doing it against someone he views as a "demon" (me), and that somehow makes it okay.  

I actually wrote him about a month or so ago, and asked him simply if he denies lying in the forum?  Do you think he answered that?  No, he couldn't.  He rejected the question.  Let him come out now after he reads this, and deny that this is so.  He won't dare, because he knows I can post it, if need be.  

Like you said, Rando is a waste of time.  Even when he writes on the Trinity, he cannot even state it correctly.  

Well Rita, I thank you for writing with your insight.  You have said many things that I have noticed many times myself.  Now, I see where Eddie G responded to my last answer to you (by posting to himself), asking me some questions, so I guess I will answer him (by likewise posting to myself...:).  

Take care, and have a wonderful evening.  God bless.


Derrick  

Jehovah`s Witness

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Derrick Holland

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I was raised in the religion known as Jehovah`s Witnesses for 13 years. Since becoming a born-again Christian, I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history. I can answer questions about their doctrines from the perspective of Biblical Christianity. To be clear: Jehovahs Witnesses is the religion of my upbringing, though I myself was never baptized into the religion, nor have I ever been considered as a Jehovahs Witness.

Experience

29 years of Biblical research into the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, and how they differ from the teachings of the Watchtower.

Organizations
I would advise each questioner to this forum, to carefully READ the profiles of the various volunteers. There are several such as myself, who are not practicing JWs, but will provide you with an accurate and honest answer, regarding JW teaching. If we don't know the answer, we will try to research and get it for you. There are also some excellent practicing JWs here, who also endeavor to give you a factual and honest answer, based on their point of view. I believe by getting both points of view, the questioner can weigh the evidence for themselves, and make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are also 3 here who claim to be JWs, but do NOT give honest, or well-researched answers. They will tell you only what they want you to believe, and they often hide facts about the history of their religion, as well as print untruths about other people's beliefs. This is done in an attempt to deceive the unsuspecting reader. It can be easily seen who these 3 are, simply by reading the public posts and "answers" which they write. Their posts will normally be filled with personal attacks, and if you question them about some teaching or aspect of the Watchtower that makes them uncomfortable, they will often reject your question, question your motives for asking it, tell you that you have been reading "apostate" sites, or turn the conversation into an attack on another expert. These ones are better avoided, as there is nothing to be gained by way of positive discussion, as they are not interested in intelligent conversation, or honest dialogue. If after reading the forum, you still have any questions as to who they are, just ask me, and I will be happy to tell you. And I can also provide documentation of their willful dishonesty. One thing is for certain...in a forum where people from both sides claim to be "Christians", there should never be any willful lying. Such ones only create a distraction in the forum, and provide nothing of any real value.

Education/Credentials
High School, some college. Studies of God's Word, the Bible, and how it compares to JW theology. I have found my own personal study and experiences to be far more valuable than any formal education or training. The Bible message is clear...Salvation is ONLY through and by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and no religious organization has a thing to do with it. While attendance at a Bible-preaching, Bible-believing church is a must for spiritual growth and fellowship, no church can grant salvation to its members. Nor is joining a particular group a prerequisite for being saved.

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