QUESTION: Hello again Miss T, I have been thinking about your answers, and hope I understand better now what you were trying to say. The doctrines that have been wrong in the past from Jw's organization were Bible prophecies not Bible truths. So if it was a Bible prophecy it was acceptable to be in error. It is, afterall, only mere human men that are trying to interpret the Bible and errors are bound to happen until these men can come to a better understanding of the Bible. Correct?? How do you explain Jw's change of heart on organ transplants? This "prophecy" cost many their lives. What about refusal of blood transfusions? Another prophecy???? As of late,however,it has changed to acceptance of blood fractions??? Who makes that life saving determination? The same men who have incorrectly made errors with the Bible "prophecies" before?? Seems to me, Jw's follow the word of the Watchtower Society above all else. This is in great opposition to what God says in the Bible. Read Pearls answer. It speaks volumes. volume. Thanks again.
ANSWER: Hello there,
The Basic Bible truths I mentioned were these:
The Trinity teaching is a lie, Hellfire is a lie, souls can't die is a lie!
I said those have not changed, and they haven't. And I said other religions continue to teach these lies and refuse to correct them. And yes errors have been made in more then just prophecies, but what you may not realize or care to realize is that coming from the darkness of false teachings and beliefs, into the light of truth doesn't happen instantly, because scriptures have to be researched and studied. My response was geared towards the teachings of JW's opposed to that of other religions, as you asked me why isn't other religions afforded the same privilege to error as us, (paraphrase).
So now you want to come back with saying that I said blood transfusions and organ transplants were errors from prophecy? I never said that they were, as you never mentioned about that until now. I was making a comparison between the Basic teachings which have not changed with the prophecies that are much harder to understand that require deep research.
If this was your question/statement from the beginning then why didn't you just come right out and say that then? You asked why do we constantly say other religions are wrong/false.
What person do you know who doesn't make errors? The important thing is to correct them when they are discovered to be such.
Just like a new parent with a new baby, they will make errors, and have made errors, some fatal, I can't even count how many co-sleeping infant deaths have occurred this year alone. When I was younger I was told not to lay a baby on it's back, but stomach, so they won't choke if they vomit, then they changed and said don't lay him on his stomach, but lay him on his side, then they learned not to put pillows or blankets and toys in the crib, why? Because babies died because of it. Once they learned of these things, what was done? Well people were told, what happened when cribs were choking babies? did they keep on making them the same way or did they improve on how they made them and correct the mistake? Why correct it? Who makes that life saving determination? The same men who made the incorrect product before?
Doctors who have gone to school for 8-10 years, have made errors that cost lives, in surgery, in wrong diagnosis, etc. Way back babies were dying because doctors didn't wash their hands after touching dead people and then going and delivering babies. So as you can see, people have made mistakes, even fatal ones, why? Because not one person on this earth is perfect. And what have those doctors learned from their mistakes? Well they have corrected them, and go on learning. But that's OK right? It's OK for Doctors to make mistakes that cost lives, and then correct them, you don't hear anyone complaining about why do doctors wash their hands now, do you? But since we made corrections, it's not ok, even though the corrections are for the betterment and a clearer understanding. Sounds like a double standard to me. I don't do the double standard game!
So for you to try to make it seem like because we are Jehovah's Witnesses there can't be mistakes made is unrealistic and just cater to biased views and misconceptions.
The Bible says abstain from Blood (Acts 15:20)
If any Witnesses lost their lives because of abiding by what was thought to be correct at that time, they need not worry, for Jehovah God will bring them back on a paradise earth to live forever in happiness! (Ps. 37:29; Rev 21:3,4; John 5:28,29) You act like this life is it. News flash for you, there's much more and if you took the time to find out rather then trying to find faults maybe you can have that chance as well. Better take heed before your chance runs out.
Why go against God to try and save your own life by taking a blood transfusion, and live for but a moment, and then lose out on everlasting life, a thinking person would pick everlasting life, this is a promise from God himself, not man!
Jesus said at Mark 8:35 "For whoever wants to save his soul will lose it; but whoever loses his soul for the sake of me and the good news will save it."
See that's where faith in God comes in at. Also as Christians we are admonished in the Bible to be submissive to those taking the lead, (Heb. 13:17) and if mistakes are made because of human imperfections, God knows this, and will make things right, without a doubt!
This life isn't the real life, it's full of suffering, hate, violence, lies, death,etc, God's promises lead to the real life. The way this world is, is not what God purposed!
1 Tim 6:19 "safely treasuring up for themselves a fine foundation for the future, in order that they may get a firm hold on the real life"
See when a person lives for the moment, when they disregard God and the arrangements he put in place, when a person thinks their way is better than God's, then that person will not be able to understand what faith in God really means. When all this wicked world is what people cling to for hope, and think this is all there is and they hold on for dear life to this, then yes, those feelings will be to save their life at all cost. Because the 'now' is all they have anyway. It's actually really sad. This world offers no hope for people, none, hope lies with Jehovah God though.
We as JW's believe in saving our lives, God views life as precious, but at all cost? Not if it goes against Jehovah. It's important to know what Blood and Blood fractions consist of.
As transfusions of whole blood became common after World War II, Jehovah’s Witnesses saw that this was contrary to God’s law—and we still believe that. Yet, medicine has changed over time. Today, most transfusions are not of whole blood but of one of its primary components: (1) red cells; (2) white cells; (3) platelets; (4) plasma (serum), the fluid part. Depending on the condition of the patient, physicians might prescribe red cells, white cells, platelets, or plasma. Transfusing these major components allows a single unit of blood to be divided among more patients. Jehovah’s Witnesses hold that accepting whole blood or any of those four primary components violates God’s law. Significantly, keeping to this Bible-based position has protected them from many risks, including such diseases as hepatitis and AIDS that can be contracted from blood.
However, since blood can be processed beyond those primary components, questions arise about fractions derived from the primary blood components. How are such fractions used, and what should a Christian consider when deciding on them?
Blood is complex. Even the plasma—which is 90 percent water—carries scores of hormones, inorganic salts, enzymes, and nutrients, including minerals and sugar. Plasma also carries such proteins as albumin, clotting factors, and antibodies to fight diseases. Technicians isolate and use many plasma proteins. For example, clotting factor VIII has been given to hemophiliacs, who bleed easily. Or if someone is exposed to certain diseases, doctors might prescribe injections of gamma globulin, extracted from the blood plasma of people who already had immunity. Other plasma proteins are used medically, but the above mentioned illustrate how a primary blood component (plasma) may be processed to obtain fractions.
Just as blood plasma can be a source of various fractions, the other primary components (red cells, white cells, platelets) can be processed to isolate smaller parts. For example, white blood cells may be a source of interferons and interleukins, used to treat some viral infections and cancers. Platelets can be processed to extract a wound-healing factor. And other medicines are coming along that involve (at least initially) extracts from blood components. Such therapies are not transfusions of those primary components; they usually involve parts or fractions thereof. Should Christians accept these fractions in medical treatment? We cannot say. The Bible does not give details, so a Christian must make his own conscientious decision before God.
This in no way says that we follow the word of the Watchtower Society above all else, as you stated. Looks like to me whether a Christian accepts these Fractions is up to them and their conscious before God! It doesn't say before the men of the Watchtower.
JW's follow the word of God above all else! That what you said is not true at all. And that you mention this apostate Pearl who is bitter and angry and wants a following after herself doesn't make anything she says true. So no, Pearl's answers only speak volumes to disorder, out right lies, confusion, her bitterness and loss of spiritual insight. And if you listen to any of the lies she spews, then that is in great opposition to what God says in the Bible. (2 Peter 2:1,3; Prov 11:9)
People can say all day long that we follow men, doesn't make it true. We know our leader is Jesus, we don't worship men, we worship Jehovah God, as Jesus himself said and did, we are to do (Luke 4:8). A Christian is a person who follows Christ, as it means Christ like.
When God says in the Bible, he took out of the nations a people for his name (Act 15:14) He didn't say he took out a person for his name, No he said 'a people'
The Bible says we should speak in agreement, have the same line of thought, not have divisions (1 Cor 1:10; Phil 2:2; 2 Cor 13:11; Romans 16:17) That would call for more then just individuals, but as a people, as God's people.
God said there would be men who take the lead, as things have to be in order, as God is not of disorder (Heb. 13:17; 1 Cor 14:33)
Now I'm going to reason with you with a series of questions, for you to think about and ponder on. Not that I'm asking you to reply back and answer them, just think about them for yourself.
Tell me what arrangements has she put in place in order to make sure that the Good News is being preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, as Jesus said would be done? (Matt 24:14) Do you think just one person can accomplish that?
Why was Korah killed by Jehovah in the time of Moses? He spoke against the one Jehovah had put in charge of His people, if Jehovah didn't use human men to be in charge on earth, then why does the Bible clearly say He did? (Numbers 16:1-11; 26:10) And not only that, but there were appointed older men too (Numbers 11:24-25; Numbers 3:30,31) Why did they all leave together as a group if no organization was needed, (Ex. 13:18) why didn't God just rescue them on an individual basis, instead of as a group, as a people? How come Jehovah told Moses to put a barrier up around the mountain so no one could come up there, except Moses and Aaron? (Ex. 19:21-25) If organization was not needed and men not used or needed, and it was every man for himself so to speak, then why isn't that taught in the Bible? Yes, we have an individual relationship with God and are accountable to God for our own actions.
Tell me who is Paul? Why is Paul's letters in the Bible to all those congregations he wrote to telling them about God, Jesus, and a whole ton of other matters? Why was Paul needed, why did Jesus even pick Paul and was Paul alone? Was he the only one who taught people about Jesus and God, or were there other capable men? What about Stephen, Luke, Matthew, Timothy, Peter, Barnabas, Mark, and many more, what about when a dispute arose in the congregation and Paul and Barnabas went to the older men in Jerusalem to settle it. (Acts 15:2,4,6,7) Why didn't Paul settle it? Was the people of that congregation worshipping those older men over God? Since they went to them to settle a matter? Why did they go to them anyway? Why were they congregating together for a dispute to even arise in the first place? Were they worshipping Paul because he wrote them letters and they adhered to what he said?
According to Pearl's viewpoint, all this is not needed and not what God teaches, she tries to say that God doesn't teach he has an organization on earth or has men who take the lead on earth. But the question you have to ask yourself is this, what does the Bible say, read the above scriptures!! Seems to me their arrangement back then is how we are arranged today, so all the blatant lies are squashed!
So since you believe what she says, do you think God put her in charge then? Are we to listen to Pearl? If so why? Isn't she putting herself in the very same place that she says the FDS has done? So is she saying that people should worship her then? And since you listen to her does that mean you are worshipping her? See that can go both ways.
I haven't seen her tell people to worship her, that I know of. Therefore, she can't come on here with that double talk and try to turn people away from Jehovah's organization and not think she can't be accused of the very things she's accusing the FDS of!!!
The FDS doesn't tell anyone to worship them, neither do they put themselves above the Bible, God, or Jesus, they point to the Bible as their guide, Jesus as their leader, and Jehovah they worship, and admonish us to do the same. Please, Get your facts straight before you think you are making some big monumental statement.
Please, don't come to me with that misguided hype from someone who lost Jehovah's favor. I am not interested in false hoods or lies from empty speeches of apostates.
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Dear Miss T, First off, let me apologize for upsetting you so. That was never my intent. I had a fair question (you said so yourself) and asked it of you. I am sorry if I did not understand it quick enough for you. Once I thought I understood it, it made me ponder more questions to which I then asked those of you. I am sorry you did not like these questions. I have to say, as a supposed teacher of the Bible and one of Gods followers, you really do yourself and your organization a disservice by lashing out and calling others names. What do you think other readers think of Jehovah Witnesses when you go off like that????? I would guess you lose much credibility. Sometimes people need to think before they start to type in an angry way. As far as this Pearl woman goes, I know nothing of her, but apparently you do. You seem to have much contempt for her. That is sad. I just happened upon her answer, and thought it was interesting. Like I said before, if something does not make sense, it probably is not true. Her answers seem to make sense. That is all. No need to get rude and disrespectful over it. " Me thinks thou does protest too much". Usually when one protests too much, there probably is a good chance that there is some to truth to what is being said, otherwise it would not get such a strong reaction. Also, I wanted to comment on your analogies. If we take a closer look at them, we find they really do not align with, nor support, your position. In your "parent" analogy" the parents made mistakes that resulted in the death of their children. They had no idea at the time that the things they were doing would cause death, so their errors were corrected so this never happened again. Right? The same with your "doctor" analogy, these doctors made grave errors when trying to save patients and had to correct their errors so death was not the end result, right? Now, if we think about what you said, both of these "circumstances" showed people who had NO IDEA that their actions would cause death, but, in the case of the Watchtower Society they indeed knew that death would be the end result if there was no transplant given, and yet they forbid it. Quite different wouldn't you say? I will just end my response by saying that your "Bible truths" given could be debated as well. There are many scriptures in the Bible that support the opposite of what you believe. I do agree with you, however, when you said "saying it does not make it true". That is why one must use logic when an answer is given, and not just "accept" that what is being said as the truth. Thanks you for your time.
ANSWER: Hello again,
You didn't upset me at all, do you think you can? Was that your goal?
I just replied to what you said and tried to help you to see the error in your thinking. It seems to me that you take my refuting of what you say as being upset. I didn't know I had to baby you, which I don't do, I just was trying to explain to you in regards to what you now changed to a different question and thought you were making some monumental statement.
I'm very jealous for Jehovah, you can talk about me all you want to, it really means nothing to me, but I will not let anyone lie on my God Jehovah and his organization and think it's OK. I have no reason to be angry with you though, you're just not going to get away with that with me, that's all. What you believe is what you believe, you wrote to me, not the other way around, so if you don't agree, then you are welcome to not agree.
When it comes to apostates, as I said don't come to me about any of them. If you go to them that's on you. Don't come to me about someone else, I even said Please. If someone is lying and I call them out, that's not name calling. If you want to think that I'm angry because I tell you different than you want to hear, rather then pondering on the questions I said were for you to ponder on, then it's nothing I can do about that.
What is an error? an error is a mistake, and if a mistake is made that means that whatever it is was not done on purpose. So my analogy made perfect sense, what you just said really doesn't. I'm not going to keep going over the same things. You can believe whatever you want to. People such as yourself already have ideas about what you feel about us JW's, so why ask me anything at all? I see right through that, and you thinking that you are trying to say I'm rude, combative or whatever else you said because I refute what you say, really is of no consequence.
It all boils down to a person wanting to please God and not themselves. If you love Jehovah, and when a person dedicates themselves to worship Jehovah God and follow Jesus, they disown themselves, (Matt 16:24) so therefore, they would not take a blood transfusion that goes against what God says, PERIOD. (Acts 15:20; Lev 17:10)
What you fail to realize is that God comes first even above ourselves. The Watchtower gave what they felt was the correct way regarding transplants at that time, the Watchtower did not hold a gun to a person's head and say you better not have an organ transplant, the person from what they believed and their love for God and not wanting to displease God, had to make that choice.
That's why it's important to learn about the promises that God has in-store for mankind, because shortly, those ones who died because they may have needed a transplant will be resurrected, and so will other people who died from getting a transplant and their body rejected it. So you really can't even say that if a person does get a transplant that they will even live anyway.
Therefore, I would rather die knowing I remained faithful, then be like Satan said all humans were anyway, do ANYTHING to save their own soul, (Job 2:4) Your thinking is just like how Satan says people are. But not everyone thinks that way. But most do, and that's why Jesus said the road leading to life was narrow and few were finding it (Matt 7:13,14) Ask yourself why that is?
No matter what you say or try to twist around, the Bible says men have been used by God to keep order and take the lead, it's all through the Bible, it's a fact. If you don't want to believe the Bible, then fine, Don't.
Here's another News Flash, a person can't just join JW's anyway, so you saying no one will join because I'm so rude is not correct. Jehovah draws people, not the other way around. (John 6:44,65). Jesus chose his apostles, they didn't choose him. (Luke 6:12,13)
Coming on here trying to use trickery or trying to make it seem like I'm angry just because I will not let you get away with that, doesn't impress me and "Me thinks you protest too much"
Waiting for your next one....
Have a good day,
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: I see you are still angry. I had hoped with waiting to respond to your rude demeanor, you would have cooled down by now and therefore, would have read my question with a clearer head and heart. I was wrong, and I see you are continuing with your disrespectful tone. Your very first sentence to me is an accusation, instead of a gracious acceptance of an apology that I did not need to do. I never asked to be "babied", I don't know why you would think that???? I never mentioned anything about how people "join" your organization and now they won't because you are rude????? You are misinterpreting and drawing inaccurate conclusions, because I called you out and exposed the downfall and lies of your organization, and you have no answers. I did not see any response in reference to my explanation of your "analogies". Hmmm, I wonder why? You name call, make hurtful accusations, depict utter disrespectful behavior, all in the name of Jehovah and the Bible????? Shame on you. Do you think Jesus spoke like this to his opposition? You need to get a grip on your anger if you want to be taken seriously and have a kind of credibility. Here's a news flash for you...... I would advise you look up "Me think thou does protest too much" because you used it incorrectly and completely out of context.
Sorry I disagree, as I said I am not angry, not even in the least bit, you really can't make me be angry if I said I am not.
Nope, You haven't exposed anything. There's nothing to expose!
I've explained already, not doing it again. If you do not accept my explanations which are pretty long I might add, OK, that's fine. Please feel free to ask another jw expert on this forum if you'd like to.
Maybe they will put up with your games, I'm just not going to.
But I will say if you feel that I was rude to you, or hurtful, then I'm sorry that you took my refuting what you were saying the wrong way.