Jehovah`s Witness/for 5 experts


This message is sent to Mr Drake, Mr G,  Mr Holland, Mr Rando, and Ms T

I have come to this site to learn about the theology of Jehovah's Witnesses.  Some of the discussions here are interesting. If I could tack a poll of readers here I am sure most would agree with the following. However especially you 5 people spoil it. You all act like school yard bullies.  Mr Holland has a different point of view to you Witnesses. Try discussing the differences of theology not differences in personalities. All of you need to grow up and act like adults.  I have done some research over the past few weeks and have come up with this advice from the Bible  

The Lord said “ But I say to you not to resist evil: but if one strike thee on thy right cheek, turn to him also the other:” Matthew 5:39

Saint Peter said about the Lord “Who, when he was reviled, did not revile: when he suffered, he threatened not, but delivered himself to him that judged him unjustly.” 1 Peter 2:23

Saint Paul said  “ Let your speech be always in grace seasoned with salt: that you may know how you ought to answer every man. “ Colossians 4:6  Douay Bible

The other people here generally follow that advice. It is about time you 4 Witnesses followed that especially when referring to Mr Holland.  And it is about time Mr Holland followed that advice when referring to any Witnesses. All of you stop the childish behavior you have been involved in. I am sure readers here do not want to hear any excuses as to why you have been acting in that way so do not give us any. I wonder how many will reply to thus without abuse like  Mr Rando did when I asked a  direct an innocent question.

Hello, Bob.  Thank you for your openness about your feelings, regarding this forum.

Now Bob, I am going to say a few things in reply, and you may or may not agree with me.  That is fine, but you need to know how things are.

Let me first say something else...I saw how you were treated and talked to by Rando, and I apologize to you for his sorry conduct.  You are not the first, nor will you be the last.  I saw where he insulted you, accused you of being my supporter (although I don't ever recall us talking before), and even went as far as to write himself a question while pretending to be someone else, to further insult you.  Whether you agree or disagree with a person, there is no excuse for that kind of unchristian behavior.

Now that being said, let me address your concerns....

You are correct that the sorry conduct that happens here, should not.  But you need to understand that when I am attacked, slandered, and lied about, I have the right to defend myself against the false attacks.  And believe me, I have let A LOT of things go, that I could have addressed.  But when a person posts publicly things that they say you believe, but that are not true, then I pretty much have to address that and set it straight.  When a person makes up personal slander about you and your family, then there is also a place for addressing that, also.  I dare say that if you were an expert on here, and he posted about you the things he has about me, you would respond.  

What you experienced from Rando, resulted in your responding to him SEVERAL times, and even writing other experts about your experience with him.  So, I rest my case.  What you experienced was vintage Rando, and a small sampling of what I have gotten from him for the past 6 years.  

As you stated, "Mr. Holland has a different point of view to you Witnesses".  But you need to understand, Sir, that JWs are not going to just sit back and tolerate a different point of view being expressed, without attacking.  It isn't going to happen.  They believe that only THEIR point of view should be seen here, and hence, what you have seen on this board is the result.  When a JW's view is refuted, it can turn nasty in a hurry.  They will slander you, they will misquote you, they will change the subject and create diversions....again, exactly what you see on a daily basis.

I, for one, would LOVE to just see both sides express their views, with mutual respect.  I have called for this to happen many times.  But as long as certain JWs are here, I'm afraid it isn't going to be.

You will notice, Bob, that I can have respectful dialogue with JWs, who also do not stoop to insults and lies.  You have never seen me have a cross word with several JWs here....Mr. Hepburn, Mr. DeLaurentos, Dee, etc.  Also, are you aware that several JWs have written to me, and THANKED me for taking the high road, even though they don't agree with my doctrine, and have apologized for their fellow Witnesses' behavior?  

There are things that have happened here behind the scenes, Bob, that you aren't aware of.  And that isn't your fault...its just the way it is.  For instance, I have written to Rando SEVERAL times, calling for an end to the lying and the slander, and asking him to simply have open and respectful dialogue.  I have asked him to publicly retract his false comments about me on his own, so that it can be put behind us.  And Bob, sad to say, Rando simply REJECTS the question, and normally types a short note with an insult in it.  There are some people you cannot make peace with, even when you have done what you can do to attempt to make peace. (Romans 12:18).  When he refuses to retract his lies, then it places it on me to set the record straight.  

Listen, I do not hate Rando.  I have prayed for him...far more than he has for me, I am sure.  Nor is it a question of forgiveness.  I practice forgiveness, whether the person wants it or not.  But that doesn't mean he gets to slander me in a public forum, and mislead people as to what I believe, and MAKE UP quotes from me that I never said.  When he does that, I have no choice but to respond.  I think you can understand that, given your own experience with him.

But you know what?  If Rando were not here, NEARLY ALL of this nonsense would die down.  We all know who the problem here is, don't we?  Now, the others you mentioned....Sister T and Eddie, well we have had our disagreements, but they are nowhere near as nasty as Rando.  True, they have said some things that were not true, and needed correcting.  But nothing as dirty as Rando.  At least you can have a semi-polite discussion with them.  Not with Rando.  I must say that I have to disagree with you, about Drake.  Personally, I think he is one of the good JWs, and I have never had a harsh word with him.  I have seen nothing in his answers that "spoil" the forum, even though I don't agree with his doctrine.  Did I miss something, that warranted his inclusion in this scolding?  I can see you including ME in it, before I could him.

Let me say this, Bob....If Rando, Eddie, and Sister T were not here, this would be a quite peaceful forum, with respectful disagreements, and each side presenting their viewpoint in the way they understand the Scriptures.  I would've included DW in this awhile back, but due to his recent new approach to the board, and apology to whomever he has offended, I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.  

I noticed that you pointed out in one of your earlier writings, that "at least Mr. Holland doesn't seem to care if people know who he is".  That is correct...I use my real name.  I do not use aliases.  And Rando even posted for the entire board, my location, as well.  So, nothing hidden about me.  Of course, he still wishes to remain anonymous...won't use his complete name, won't say where he is from, etc.  There are reasons for this, as you suspected, Bob.

Now Bob, I'll tell you what I will do.  You are going to see an address from me to Rando, that will post in this forum tomorrow.  It isn't going to be pretty.  In fact, it is going to be quite harsh.  And it is because he has forced my hand.  He started a month ago (back around th time you first wrote him), posting nonsensical statements about my "bearing false witness against Holy Spirit", by claiming that I said the Holy Spirit "changed His mind" about something.  If I recall, he even spent one of his "answers" to YOUR question, asking you why I made those statements.  That SHOULD tell you something about the man's mental capacity....Why would he ask YOU, someone who has never conversed with me, why I said something?  Does that make sense?

Well, I have ignored this comment every time he has posted it.  But he continues to post it, and I simply am not going to let him lie to the readers, and cause anyone to think that I actually said something like that.  So, I am addressing him, once again, about several of his outright lies.  There is no way to do it, besides just come out with it, and hit him directly with his dishonesty.  

If he doesn't like it, then he shouldn't lie.  Its just that simple.

As I said....It will post tomorrow, and if it bothers you, then my suggestion is not to read it.  But it needed to be done.  Enough lying and slander is enough.  I'd like to see how you would react to being called "antichrist", and lied about for 6 years.  You responded quite harshly, after your few experiences with him.  Not that I blame you, or am saying you weren't justified...I'm just saying, that I have put up with worse, for much longer.

However, here is what I will do....For my part, I will agree to do MY PART to have respectful dialogue.  Now, understand that I cannot force the others to do this.  Some of them believe that slander is justified, because they believe I am in a forum that they think I should not be in.  So, you are going to have to convince them that their reactions are not justified, and you have your work cut out for you there. I am fully content to share the Gospel in this forum with JWs, and show respect to everyone.  Now, let's see how far you get with Rando, and the others.

In closing, Bob, thanks for writing.  I am sorry for your experiences with Rando.  But it was nothing unique.  The man has always harbored a deep-seated hatred for me.  He joined this forum for the sole purpose of attacking me.  Are you saying I should never respond to his lies, when they are personal?

Again, thanks for writing, and have a good evening.  Take care.


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Derrick Holland


I was raised in the religion known as Jehovah`s Witnesses for 13 years. Since becoming a born-again Christian, I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history. I can answer questions about their doctrines from the perspective of Biblical Christianity. To be clear: Jehovahs Witnesses is the religion of my upbringing, though I myself was never baptized into the religion, nor have I ever been considered as a Jehovahs Witness.


29 years of Biblical research into the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, and how they differ from the teachings of the Watchtower.

I would advise each questioner to this forum, to carefully READ the profiles of the various volunteers. There are several such as myself, who are not practicing JWs, but will provide you with an accurate and honest answer, regarding JW teaching. If we don't know the answer, we will try to research and get it for you. There are also some excellent practicing JWs here, who also endeavor to give you a factual and honest answer, based on their point of view. I believe by getting both points of view, the questioner can weigh the evidence for themselves, and make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are also 3 here who claim to be JWs, but do NOT give honest, or well-researched answers. They will tell you only what they want you to believe, and they often hide facts about the history of their religion, as well as print untruths about other people's beliefs. This is done in an attempt to deceive the unsuspecting reader. It can be easily seen who these 3 are, simply by reading the public posts and "answers" which they write. Their posts will normally be filled with personal attacks, and if you question them about some teaching or aspect of the Watchtower that makes them uncomfortable, they will often reject your question, question your motives for asking it, tell you that you have been reading "apostate" sites, or turn the conversation into an attack on another expert. These ones are better avoided, as there is nothing to be gained by way of positive discussion, as they are not interested in intelligent conversation, or honest dialogue. If after reading the forum, you still have any questions as to who they are, just ask me, and I will be happy to tell you. And I can also provide documentation of their willful dishonesty. One thing is for a forum where people from both sides claim to be "Christians", there should never be any willful lying. Such ones only create a distraction in the forum, and provide nothing of any real value.

High School, some college. Studies of God's Word, the Bible, and how it compares to JW theology. I have found my own personal study and experiences to be far more valuable than any formal education or training. The Bible message is clear...Salvation is ONLY through and by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and no religious organization has a thing to do with it. While attendance at a Bible-preaching, Bible-believing church is a must for spiritual growth and fellowship, no church can grant salvation to its members. Nor is joining a particular group a prerequisite for being saved.

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