Jehovah`s Witness/It's me Dee

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Hi Derrick,
Hope all is well. I'm good still baptized, but ain't drinking all the kool-aide...I really haven't followed the cross thing but was it mentioned in any of the comments, that Thomas wanted to see the nails PRINT...John 20:25 (NWT)Consequently the other disciples would say to him: “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them: “Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails and stick my finger into the print of the nails and stick my hand into his side, I will certainly not believe.” See the word...nails..hmmm, wondering...did they use 2 nails to hold him up on the stake, wouldn't his weight tear his hands? I'm just saying...We have a lot to discuss. I know you heard about the 1914 WT. If you want we can discuss it privately..
Hope you & your family are doing well. Me, I'm doing fine. Still a witness but I'm a thinking & non-judgemental witness...

Dee

Answer
Good afternoon, Dee.  Glad to hear that you are well.  

The last time we spoke, you were contemplating baptism, but as I recall, you had not done so yet.  I did read some of your correspondences with Brenton, and saw where you mentioned that you had gotten baptized.  I admit that I started to wonder after that, if I would hear from you again, but was hoping I would.  I hope your decision was based upon lots of thought and prayer, as you will be expected to "drink the Kool-Aid" as a baptized Witness now.  I am glad that you are not, and do not intend to.  But you will not be able to really be vocal about your differences in the doctrine.

Yes, the cross discussion has been quite interesting.  It actually only became a DISCUSSION, several weeks after Eddie posted a series of articles on the topic.  I actually didn't even bother to respond at first, because nearly all of it was the same old re-hashed stuff that they always use, and most of it was based on out-of-context quotes, and only giving a small portion of the facts available.  He was mainly making the point about the cross being used in pre-Christian times by pagans, to represent sexual organs.  But he neglected to mention that the stake has the SAME history, and even more so, than the cross.  

It became a discussion, when I made a couple of references in a reply to another questioner, that Eddie was falsely claiming that we Christians WORSHIP crosses.  Of course, this is not even close to the truth, but he saw my comments about them telling the truth, so that got his attention enough for him to issue a challenge.  A challenge which I happily accepted.  

If you have time, Dee, I hope you will get to go back and read the various posts that have been written about this topic.  Not that the instrument of Christ's death is nearly as important as the fact that He died, but JWs like Eddie want to make it a matter of contention, so I gave the over-whelming evidence that the method of Jesus' crucifixion, was indeed a cross.  I feel it is simply one of those many issues, that JWs often use to divide themselves from everyone else, and have this appearance of superior spirituality.  

You asked..."was it mentioned in any of the comments, that Thomas wanted to see the nails PRINT...John 20:25 (NWT)Consequently the other disciples would say to him: “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them: “Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails and stick my finger into the print of the nails and stick my hand into his side, I will certainly not believe.” See the word...nails..hmmm, wondering...did they use 2 nails to hold him up on the stake, wouldn't his weight tear his hands?"

Yes, this point was raised under my post entitled "CROSS OR STAKE...THE BIBLICAL EVIDENCE".  Here is the link....

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Jehovah-s-Witness-1617/2013/9/cross-stake-biblical-ev

I also wrote several other posts, with one post addressing the Historical/Archaeological evidence, as well as another post or two, simply setting straight false statements on this topic mentioned by Eddie and Sister T.  Unfortunately, there was a lot of misinformation being put out there, and I felt it were best if things were kept factually honest.

But for the one containing the Scripture reference you mentioned, it is in the "BIBLICAL EVIDENCE" post.  

You are correct, that it says "nails".  And the fact is, this passage could not be a reference to His hands AND His feet, because His feet are not mentioned in that verse.  Only His hands are specifically mentioned, and we are told there were "nails"...plural.  Had Jesus been put to death on merely an upright pole, only one nail through the wrist would have been needed.  If He were put to death on a cross, then 2 would have been required.  

It is possible, even probable, that the portion of His hands that were nailed, would've been the wrists.  But we know that more than one nail was used in His hands, and this fits more with the idea of the cross.

Dee, you said..."...We have a lot to discuss. I know you heard about the 1914 WT. If you want we can discuss it privately.."

I will certainly leave that decision up to you.  I don't mind it being either private, or public, but if you would feel more comfortable with it being private, then please feel free to do so.  

Please don't be a stranger, and it is great to hear from you again.  Take care!


Derrick

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Derrick Holland

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I was raised in the religion known as Jehovah`s Witnesses for 13 years. Since becoming a born-again Christian, I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history. I can answer questions about their doctrines from the perspective of Biblical Christianity. To be clear: Jehovahs Witnesses is the religion of my upbringing, though I myself was never baptized into the religion, nor have I ever been considered as a Jehovahs Witness.

Experience

29 years of Biblical research into the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, and how they differ from the teachings of the Watchtower.

Organizations
I would advise each questioner to this forum, to carefully READ the profiles of the various volunteers. There are several such as myself, who are not practicing JWs, but will provide you with an accurate and honest answer, regarding JW teaching. If we don't know the answer, we will try to research and get it for you. There are also some excellent practicing JWs here, who also endeavor to give you a factual and honest answer, based on their point of view. I believe by getting both points of view, the questioner can weigh the evidence for themselves, and make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are also 3 here who claim to be JWs, but do NOT give honest, or well-researched answers. They will tell you only what they want you to believe, and they often hide facts about the history of their religion, as well as print untruths about other people's beliefs. This is done in an attempt to deceive the unsuspecting reader. It can be easily seen who these 3 are, simply by reading the public posts and "answers" which they write. Their posts will normally be filled with personal attacks, and if you question them about some teaching or aspect of the Watchtower that makes them uncomfortable, they will often reject your question, question your motives for asking it, tell you that you have been reading "apostate" sites, or turn the conversation into an attack on another expert. These ones are better avoided, as there is nothing to be gained by way of positive discussion, as they are not interested in intelligent conversation, or honest dialogue. If after reading the forum, you still have any questions as to who they are, just ask me, and I will be happy to tell you. And I can also provide documentation of their willful dishonesty. One thing is for certain...in a forum where people from both sides claim to be "Christians", there should never be any willful lying. Such ones only create a distraction in the forum, and provide nothing of any real value.

Education/Credentials
High School, some college. Studies of God's Word, the Bible, and how it compares to JW theology. I have found my own personal study and experiences to be far more valuable than any formal education or training. The Bible message is clear...Salvation is ONLY through and by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and no religious organization has a thing to do with it. While attendance at a Bible-preaching, Bible-believing church is a must for spiritual growth and fellowship, no church can grant salvation to its members. Nor is joining a particular group a prerequisite for being saved.

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