Jehovah`s Witness/Now the "HOW" doesn't matter...?? Cross cont.
Hello Bro EddieG,
Sister T here, I Hope you and your family are doing well.
I just read your reply regarding the Cross and I want to say that your toleration for NO RIVALRY towards our God Jehovah is much appreciated. (2 Kings 10:16) You and Bro Rando have showed the dishonoring use of an image in any way regarding worship to God is wrong!
When the truth is not in a person, they resemble those religious leaders of Jesus' day when he told them they were from their Father the Devil. As Jesus said regarding Satan that the truth was not in him and that he was the Father of the lie, (John 8:44) this helps us see the importance of TRUTH to our Father, Jehovah and to his son Jesus who said his Father's word's were TRUTH! (John 17:17).
God is about Truth and the opposite of truth is lies, (Ps 31:5)
Eph 4:25 "Wherefore, now that YOU have put away falsehood, speak truth each one of YOU with his neighbor, because we are members belonging to one another"
Prov 14:5 "A faithful witness is one that will not lie, but a false witness launches forth mere lies"
The Cross has been proven by the Bible that God does not approve of any of his true servants having an image of anything, and that includes the Cross, for use in worship to him.
When people fight against God's own words in order to accept doctrines of men, the Bible says they make the word of God invalid, this is a big deal, as we clearly see from this scripture:
Matt 15:6-9 "....And so YOU have made the word of God invalid because of YOUR tradition. 7 YOU hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about YOU, when he said, 8 ‘This people honors me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. 9 It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines."
Matt 15:13,14 "....“Every plant that my heavenly Father did not plant will be uprooted. 14 LET them be. Blind guides is what they are. If, then, a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”
The hypocrisy is so evident here. We see that at one time it's not a big deal, then why keep writing if it's not? So long I might add that I don't even bother reading it. Then we see the run around lines that are common when a person has nothing to back up their claims with, "oh they say the same things over and over again"
Jehovah's truths do not change, so yes, no matter how many twists of the truth are made, the same truths still stand firm. God does not change his Truths (Mal 6:3), just because men change doesn't mean God's truths change! If a lie wasn't a big deal, which the Cross most surely is, then why is it impossible for God to lie (Heb 6:18; Titus 1:2)
If a person thinks it's OK to keep going with the lie that is the Cross then they need to read this scripture here and tread lightly:
Prov 6:16-19 "There are six things that Jehovah does hate; yes, seven are things detestable to his soul: 17 lofty eyes, a false tongue, and hands that are shedding innocent blood, 18 a heart fabricating hurtful schemes, feet that are in a hurry to run to badness, 19 a false witness that launches forth lies, and anyone sending forth contentions among brothers."
Regarding the doorposts and doorway, to even IMPLY it's in the form of a Cross is ludicrous! First of all to IMPLY something doesn't make it correct or fact or even true. Someone can imply anything. But for it to be true then an implication does not mean a thing.
But how is the shape of a Cross even implied by the blood on the two doorposts and above the doorway? It makes no sense.
What doorway do you know of that is shaped like a "T" If anyone's door way were in the shape of a Cross there would be a beam smack in the middle of where a person comes out from!
Doors are in the form of rectangles, not crosses.
Ex 12:23 "Then when Jehovah does pass through to plague the Egyptians and does see the blood upon the upper part of the doorway and upon the two doorposts,
Jehovah will certainly pass over the entrance, and he will not allow the ruination to enter into YOUR houses to plague YOU" (bold mine)
That is a far fetched wish and complete desperation to try to make that be the form of a cross! Doorposts are on either side of the doorway. As we can see it says the two doorposts. Talking about grasping for straws this takes the total cake. There isn't even an implication here of a Cross period.
Also, we must remember that the Jews back then before Jesus even came to earth would not even imply that the Blood was the symbol of a cross for the simple fact that Jews even down to this day do not believe in crosses or that Jesus even came yet. And Jews back in Bible times knew of the pagan cross that other nations used and is why God warned them over and over again about false gods and their idols! That implication is nothing more then hogwash!
It's really sad how lies have to be continued by more lies until it gets utterly ridiculous. That's what has happened here. Utter ridiculousness to the 10th degree! Anyone who really believes that two doorposts on either side of a doorway makes the sign of a Cross has lost it completely!
Yes it does matter HOW Jesus died because his dying as you explained is of utter importance to us! Jehovah gave his people detailed information on HOW to do things and we can see details down to the remotest parts of things. So to say HOW isn't important is a slap to our God Jehovah's face. Obviously he cared HOW or He would not have specified HOW. If not He would have just said slap some blood on the door.
But he didn't, he gave specific detailed instructions...upper part of the doorway (Lentil) and two door posts! Which are on the sides of the doorway other wise a person would not be able to enter their home if it was a beam down the middle.
So repeating and showing what God says from his word the Bible is vital if a person is about truth. If they are not about truth as God is then the HOW's will not matter to them.
Illustration: If you needed to buy food for your family and you had a choice, you could sell drugs and get the money, or you could go to work and earn the money. To a person who it doesn't matter to them HOW the money was gotten, just as long as it was gotten to feed their family would be OK with drug money. But to a person who cares about HOW the money was obtained, they would not be OK with it coming from drug money.
So to say the HOW is not important is wrong on many levels and goes against many things regarding Bible truths!
So basically Bible Truths are not important to Mr. Holland since HOW doesn't matter.
So therefore he should not be concerned with not knowing the ones who wrote our NWT Bible. Also he should not concern himself with our beliefs as he has for 13 years being on here since HOW isn't important to him. Why come on here trying to prove us wrong, he knows we believe in Jesus Christ...so why is he concerned with HOW our belief in Jesus is, as for his way of thinking, HOW doesn't matter.
I could go on and on with the contradictory things he brings upon himself, but you have showed more then enough proof that the Cross is not approved by God, should not be used in worship to God, that it's a pagan detestable image/emblem/symbol/idol that is venerated, and that Jesus did not die on such.
That's like a man who wants to be a woman so bad that he has an operation and starts to wear women clothes and make-up and act like a woman. Does that mean he's really a woman? NOPE...he's still a man. So just because people want the Cross so bad to be what Jesus died on, the facts show that it's not. No matter how many twists and turns they try to come up with to make it be such. Still isn't.
To say that he had to die on a Cross because the Bible uses the word nails is also far fetched. If his hands were spread out or up above, the weight of his body would still pull on his hands regardless, so to use that as a reason is not viable, plus the fact that his feet were nailed helps a thinking person to know that the full weight of his body was not on his hands anyway. So that argument is futile. Also Thomas using the word nails doesn't mean Jesus was on a Cross. Because the Bible itself called it a tree, (or stake or pole) And Jesus himself referred to it as a pole, when he talked about what he was to die on.
John 3:14 KJV "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:"
and the scripture Jesus was referring to:
Numbers 21:8,9 KJV "And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live. 9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived."
So we can see Jesus said himself said he would die on a pole (stake), not a cross!
That's what happens when people do not think. They just want us to be wrong so bad. There is no way the Cross is approved by God according to the Bible, or that Jesus died on a cross. It doesn't matter what counterfeit Christians say. The Bible is clear!
A Baptized person who still carries on lies will have to deal with Jehovah, as their accounting will come into account. (Heb 4:13; Prov 19:5)
To dispute that with doctrines of men, sweeping statements, and implications proves absolutely nothing at all whatsoever.
So in the end, once again, the Bible should have the last say so, not men, who want the cross to be OK. As the Bible shows it's not OK!
Any thoughts Bro Eddie?
Hi Sister Tee,
Excellent post as usual! And thanks for writing.
But you know what's becoming obvious now Sister T? The tactic of those who are trying hard to push the lie that is the cross. If they can't answer a simple question they will try to divert the topic to something else. If they can't back up their claim, they turn around and accused us of exactly what they are guilty of. Like you said Sister T, the ridiculousness of it all. Unfortunately, it's going to backfire on them.
Take for example this poster named Jim who said the following to Mr. Holland.
"I wonder how they feel about the pagan use of the torture stake? A stake or pole has a greater sexual and hence pagan connotation than the cross. In Christian times the phallus was represented by the pole shaped Obelisk of the Egyptians and Romans and the Hindu Lingam. Sacred poles are often mentioned in the Bible, such as at Exodus 34:13;
"But their altars YOU people are to pull down, and their sacred pillars YOU are to shatter, and their sacred poles YOU are to cut down."
Jesus death on a stake mimics the ancient Sumerian myth of Inanna. Inanna descended into the nether world. There she was turned into a corpse by the seven judges and "the corpse was hung from a stake" for three days and nights. After this she was resurrected by the instructions of Enki, the god of fertility.
Any idea what he's trying to IMPLY here Sister T?
Is he saying that since we believe that Jesus was put to death on a stake that somehow we're worshiping the stake? Lol!!!
Or did he just confirmed what been saying all along that the CROSS is a despicable object just like the stake?
I mean, really what is he trying to say here that we don't already know?
"If a symbol should be rejected on the grounds of pagan roots, consider the symbol of the Watchtower Society. The Watchtower is a Masonic symbol used as a representation of Mary Magdalene, Magdalene derived from the ancient Greek word for Watchtower. Watchtower is also used in Witchcraft to represent the four elements, invoked during ritual to cast the magic circle. The Watchtowers originated in the sixteenth century Enochian magic system."
Again, what was he trying to IMPLY here?
"the symbol of the Watchtower Society"?
I didn't know we have a symbol - did you Sister. Wow! That's news to me.
Like you said, the ridiculousness of it all.
But just in case he want's to know why The Watchtower, here's a quote from the 1950 Watchtower magazine.
*** w50 8/15 p. 260 Name and Purpose of The Watchtower ***
The Bible frequently mentions towers. They were lofty structures, much higher than wide, and erected in a variety of places to form a prominent feature of architecture in ancient Israel. Often they were in vineyards, as shown by Jesus in his parable of the husbandmen. (Isa. 5:2; Matt. 21:33; Mark 12:1) Towers as lookout stations were built beyond the walls of fortified cities, as well as atop the walls to serve as observation posts and fortified strong points. (2 Ki. 17:9; 18:8; 2 Chron. 20:24; 26:9, 10, 15; Neh. 3:1; Ps. 48:12) Because of the use of literal towers as places of refuge, figurative language speaks of Jehovah God as a strong tower to those trusting in him.—Judg. 9:51, 52; Ps. 18:2; 61:3; 144:2; Prov. 18:10.
Watchmen were stationed on the towers to serve as lookouts, to forestall any surprise attacks by enemies, or to herald forth any news of consequence that they could glean from their observations, whether that news be good or bad. (2 Ki. 9:17) Their duty was to stay awake, and watch, and warn. However, in that typical Theocracy it was true that, “unless the LORD keep the city, the watchman keeps awake in vain.”—Ps. 127:1, An Amer. Trans.
This connection between Jehovah God and the watchmen in the watchtowers was even more vital in the case of those men appointed to be on the lookout for messages from the Lord and to warn of dangers that threatened the spiritual welfare of the nation of Israel. Appreciation of the duties of the watchmen posted in literal towers helps us to grasp the service responsibilities of those assigned as watchmen on the more vital spiritual front. Habakkuk was one of such, and he said: “On my watch-tower I will stand, at my post upon the turret, watching to see what he will say to me, what answer he will offer to my plea.”—Hab. 2:1, Moffatt." - end quote
*** w50 8/15 pp. 262-263 Name and Purpose of The Watchtower ***
But what has all this to do with the Watchtower magazine? Very much, for The Watchtower is the official voice of the watchman class today. Just as literal towers were located on vantage points affording broad views, so The Watchtower is founded on the very pinnacle of reliable wisdom, namely, God’s Word the Bible. That elevates it above party squabbles, prejudices, greeds, propagandas, biases of race or nation, and frees from influences that might sway or warp viewpoint. Its vision is not narrow or shortsighted, but takes an over-all view and is farsighted enough to peer into the future, by use of recorded inspired prophecy. It views modern conditions and events in the light of God’s Word, being receptive to Jehovah’s message, and quick to declare his truths and judgments. Jehovah commands the watchman class to “call aloud, hold not back, lift up your voice like a trumpet; show my people their transgression”. (Isa. 58:1, An Amer. Trans.) As a voice for the watchman class, The Watchtower has trumpeted forth the sins of those professing to serve God, and at present lifts up its voice in thirty languages and is heard throughout the nations of earth.
Viewed in this light it may be said that The Watchtower stands as a watchman on a lookout post, alert to what is going on, awake to note signs that warn of danger, quick to point the way to life in a new world. It heralds the news of Jehovah’s kingdom established by Christ’s enthronement in heaven, warns that we live in the last days of this old world, cries out that Jehovah’s battle of Armageddon comes on apace, feeds the kingdom joint-heirs with spiritual food, cheers men of good will with glorious prospects of eternal life in a paradise earth, and comforts us with the resurrection promise for the dead. All this it does with confident ring in its voice, because its words find their foundation in God’s Word. It is not a blind or dumb watchman, but tries to keep in tune with God by searching his Word and being receptive to his guidance, with eyes always open to prophecy so that it knows what to look for in world events, so that it understands the significance of what it sees. It does not privately interpret prophecy, but calls attention to physical facts, sets them alongside prophecy, and you see for yourself how well the two match, how accurately Jehovah interprets his own prophecy.—2 Pet. 1:20, 21.
Hence the purpose of this magazine is to keep sharp and faithful focus on Bible truth, on world happenings that may fulfill prophecies, and on religious news generally. Sometimes it will tear down religious falsehoods, that Bible truth may be built up in their stead. Such two-way work is Scripturally commanded, and is beneficial for all persons of right heart condition. (Jer. 1:10; Heb. 12:5-13) However, The Watchtower does not claim to be inspired in its utterances, nor is it dogmatic. It invites careful and critical examination of its contents in the light of the Scriptures. Its purpose is to aid others to know Jehovah and his purposes toward mankind, and to announce Christ’s established kingdom as our only hope.
Jehovah God is the Teacher of his people, but we must “be on the watch” to catch his instruction. We must “not sleep like the rest of men, but be wakeful and sober”. To those who do slumber the wakeful ones must cry, “It is high time to awake!” (Isa. 54:13; Rom. 13:11; 1 Cor. 16:13, An Amer. Trans.; 1 Thess. 5:6, Moffatt) If you have been asleep to the signs of the times, not watching world developments in the light of Bible prophecies, then you must obey the command to wake up and watch. Let The Watchtower help you heed such admonition that leads to life, for that is its purpose.
Faithfully living up to its name and purpose, The Watchtower does stand alone in its field, and its value is unmeasurable in money. It declares God’s wisdom, which is “better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it”. Such wisdom “is a tree of life”. The Watchtower beckons you to lay hold upon that wisdom, and gain life in a new world without end.—Prov. 3:13-18; 8:10, 11; Eph. 3:21. -- end quote
Nice talking to you again Sister T!
Philia to you and the brotherhood.