Jehovah`s Witness/Follow-up

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Question
QUESTION: Hi Eddie, I wasn't able to ask a f/u question on the last answer you sent me, so I had to go this route.

"Am I correct to assume that you're one of those they call KJV Onlyites?"

I have studied several Bibles that all line up with the KJV with only the most minor differences, but the KJV is my primary Bible, in part because of all the scholars that worked on it. As I said in my last email, over the 400+ years since the KJV was written, there are hundreds of versions done by probably thousands of scholars that line up with it.

"Anyhow, based on the NWT did I prove my point about Jesus being the "firstborn of creation" and that the title Creator is only reserved for his Father and God Jehovah?"

No, you did not. According to my research, Paul used the word "proto with tikto (firstborn), and not proto with ktizo (first-created). I've checked that with a few different online sources. Also, from my research:

"Second, the biblical use of the word "firstborn" is most interesting. It can mean the first born child in a family (Luke 2:7), but it can also mean "pre-eminence." In Psalm 89:20, 27 it says, "I have found David My servant; with My holy oil I have anointed him...I also shall make him My first-born" (NASB). As you can see, David, who was the last one born in his family was called the firstborn by God. This is a title of preeminence."



"Easy, TRUTH is Truth. It's like this. In order to find out if a $bill is a forgery, bankers teach their employees to study the real thing first. Learn as much as they can about it because the more they know about the real dollar the easier they can spot a fake $$bill. An EXPERT in spotting a forged $$bill means that he knows very well the ins and outs of the real $$bill."

I studied the real $ bill (the KJV), and then compared it against the suspect $ bill (the NWT), and I determined the NWT to be the forgery. As I said before, your church has created a Bible around it's faith, instead of basing your faith around a Bible.

"The KJV is such INSPITE of the as you stated <"thousands of scholars that worked on the KJV and other versions over the last 400+ years> they still <"got it wrong">!"

"The NWT on the other hand, even though the translators were <"unknown"> as you stated <"and unnamed number of scholars that created> the NWT <"over the last 50 years> they <"got it right.">!"


Again, the problem your church faces is that until 1961 they used the KJV/ASV. It wasn't until your church leaders decided that these versions didn't line up with their theology, so they created a bible around their faith, instead of the other way around. It's interesting that all the changes just happen to match up with what your church believes! Your church not only made changes to the Bible, but those changes COMPLETELY change the meaning of the Bible. Out of your own bible:

"18“I am bearing witness to everyone that hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll;19and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life and out of the holy city, things which are written about in this scroll." Rev 22:18-19

You are not as learned as I thought you might be if you are able to say straight-faced that EVERY scholar over a 400 year period translated the Bible wrong, and your scholar(s) (could be 1, could be 1,000, who knows?) got it right over the last 50 years. If I were kept from learning who translated the KJV because the church or other parties didn't think I should know, I would certainly have doubts about it's authenticity. You seem perfectly willing to blindly accept that your church WILL NOT reveal the scholars, or their academic credentials. As long as that remains a secret, it's more than proof enough that your bible is false, and your church is using a poor excuse for our not learning if these "scholars" have any credentials at all as translators. You also didn't answer my question as to why you think God would allow Christians to follow a "flawed/false" Bible for 19 centuries, taking us right into the season of the return of Jesus Christ, and then send us your "scholars" to get the truth out. By the way, those Christians include members of your own church, since they used the KJV/ASV until the 1960s.

ANSWER: OK Ron - let me just address what you said in the last paragraph then come back to the "Firstborn" later if time permits.

You said:

"You are not as learned as I thought you might be if you are able to say straight-faced that EVERY scholar over a 400 year period translated the Bible wrong, and your scholar(s) (could be 1, could be 1,000, who knows?) got it right over the last 50 years. If I were kept from learning who translated the KJV because the church or other parties didn't think I should know, I would certainly have doubts about it's authenticity. You seem perfectly willing to blindly accept that your church WILL NOT reveal the scholars, or their academic credentials. As long as that remains a secret, it's more than proof enough that your bible is false, and your church is using a poor excuse for our not learning if these "scholars" have any credentials at all as translators. You also didn't answer my question as to why you think God would allow Christians to follow a "flawed/false" Bible for 19 centuries, taking us right into the season of the return of Jesus Christ, and then send us your "scholars" to get the truth out. By the way, those Christians include members of your own church, since they used the KJV/ASV until the 1960s."


You seem to be pretty hang up on the identity of the persons who produced the NWT as if their academic credentials matter more than their work.

Shouldn't be the other way around?  That is, shouldn't their work reveal their skills and expertise, and above all their honesty?

I mean anyone can claim to be the BEST of the BEST brain surgeons in the world, but if 30-40% or even 60% of their patients die because of brain hemorrhage and other brain surgery complications, would that make their credentials valueless and void?

I think so and hope so. In any case it's the same thing with any Bible. By studying carefully the finished product and comparing it with the best you can easily see and identify which one is:


1. Accurate

and

2. Consistent.

So by comparing the NWT with the KJV, we should be able see which one is:

1. Accurate and

2. Consistent

Agree? So here we go.

As quoted below, you will notice that the KJV Bible uses the word "tree" for the Greek word "xylon", while the NWT Bible in next groups of scriptures uses the word "stake".

In the next groups of scriptures, the word "cross" was used for "stauros" in the KJV while "torture stake" was used in the NWT.

Notice:

KJV:

Act 5:30 KJV - The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree (xylon).
Act 13:29 KJV - And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took [him] down from the tree(xylon) , and laid [him] in a sepulchre.
Gal 3:13 KJV - Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree(xylon) :
1Pe 2:24 KJV - Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree (xylon), that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

NWT:

“. . .The God of our forefathers raised up Jesus, whom YOU slew, hanging him upon a stake (xylon). . .” (Acts 5:30)
“. . .When, now, they had accomplished all the things written about him, they took him down from the stake and laid him in a memorial tomb. . .” (Acts 13:29)
“ Christ by purchase released us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse instead of us, because it is written: “Accursed is every man hanged upon a stake.. . .” (Galatians 3:13)
“. . .He himself bore our sins in his own body upon the stake, in order that we might be done with sins and live to righteousness. And “by his stripes YOU were healed. . .” (1 Peter 2:24)


So based on the above scriptures, right away we can see the slight difference between the KJV and NWT when translating "xylon" into "tree" vs "stake".

However in describing the same event or the same object/subject, the KJV this time uses the word "CROSS" for the Greek word "stauros".

Like in here:

[Mat 27:42 KJV] 42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross (stauros), and we will believe him.
[Mar 15:30 KJV] 30 Save thyself, and come down from the cross.
[Luk 9:23 KJV] 23 And he said to [them] all, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
[Jhn 19:25 KJV] 25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the [wife] of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.


The NWT on the other hand uses the word "torture stake'.

Like in here:

“. . .Others he saved; himself he cannot save! He is King of Israel; let him now come down off the torture stake (stauros) and we will believe on him. . .” (Matthew 27:42)
“. . .save yourself by coming down off the torture stake.”” (Mark 15:30)
“. . .Then he went on to say to all: “If anyone wants to come after me, let him disown himself and pick up his torture stake day after day and follow me continually. . .” (Luke 9:23)
“. . .By the torture stake of Jesus, however, there were standing his mother and the sister of his mother; Mary the wife of Clo′pas, and Mary Mag′da·lene. . .” (John 19:25)

Now, which of the two translations do you think rendered the Greek words "xylon" and "stauros"  accurately and consistently?

I say it's the NWT as you will see later.

But I'm sure you will say the KJV Bible.

If so,does this mean then that a "tree" is the same as a "cross" when the translators used them in describing the same object/subject/thing and event"?


If yes, can you explain then how such translation can be justified?



I mean are you able to explain it in a very simple but accurate way that anyone even a child can understand it?

Like this:

'A torture stake was used to torture and kill Jesus' according to the NWT.


Also, if you're saying that Jesus died on a cross (according to the KJV), how did the following prophecy got fulfilled?

That is:

[Deu 21:22-23 KJV] 22 And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: 23 His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged [is] accursed of God;) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee [for] an inheritance.


"Gal 3:13 KJV - Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree(xylon) "

In other words did Jesus died on a tree or a cross according to the scriptures above?


In addition if you say that the KJV is correct, this also means that the writers of the Gospels and the NT are collaborators with the translators - if what they really wrote as rendered in the KJV was that a "tree" means "cross".

But above all, the KJV makes God responsible for putting it there, since He is the Author of the Bible. Isn't it?

If so, you really WILL have to believe that this is true. But if true the warning below will apply:

"18“I am bearing witness to everyone that hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll;19and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life and out of the holy city, things which are written about in this scroll." Rev 22:18-19

If not then it puts the KJV in very bad light.


So do you really believe this Ron - that a tree is a cross and a cross is a tree?

(hopefully you will not say a tree is made of wood and a cross is made of wood therefore a tree is a cross - because that's a word play with half truth)


What say you Ron?


There are more instances like this in the KJV but none (as far as i know) in the NWT.



As for the word "firstborn" - you said:

"According to my research, Paul used the word "proto with tikto (firstborn), and not proto with ktizo (first-created). I've checked that with a few different online sources. Also, from my research:

"Second, the biblical use of the word "firstborn" is most interesting. It can mean the first born child in a family (Luke 2:7), but it can also mean "pre-eminence." In Psalm 89:20, 27 it says, "I have found David My servant; with My holy oil I have anointed him...I also shall make him My first-born" (NASB). As you can see, David, who was the last one born in his family was called the firstborn by God. This is a title of preeminence."


Sure, I have no disagreement with what you said but what I said is in the context of God's Creation - who is the very firstborn of every creation, the very first being created. The Scripture is clear on this - it's Jesus Christ.

[Col 1:15 KJV] 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

[Rev 3:14 KJV] 14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

(NWT)“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him.” (Colossians 1:15, 16)


(NWT)““And to the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ce′a write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God,” (Revelation 3:14).


It can't get any clearer than that.

p.s. apologies for making the post a little bit longer.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Eddie, are you playing games with me, or are you really this absurd?


"You seem to be pretty hang up on the identity of the persons who produced the NWT as if their academic credentials matter more than their work."

Their credentials certainly matter AS MUCH AS,if not more than their work.

"I mean anyone can claim to be the BEST of the BEST brain surgeons in the world, but if 30-40% or even 60% of their patients die because of brain hemorrhage and other brain surgery complications, would that make their credentials valueless and void?"


You're making my point. If I knew a Doctor was losing 30%-60% of his/her patients, I wouldn't make an appointment, I'D LOOK FOR ANOTHER DOCTOR, because that would tell me he didn't have the expertise. Oh, he could have a big Diploma on the wall touting his credentials, but if he's losing up to 60% of his patients, then that tells me he doesn't know what he's doing, and those credentials are useless. He could CALL himself a surgeon, much like your church can CALL those who created your bible "scholars", but when someone calls himself an "expert" at anything, I don't believe that you, Eddie, would just say "Well, that's good enough for me"! Credibility matters in everything. If you walked into the office of that brain surgeon needing surgery, and he refused to produce ANY form of credentials, therefore not allowing you to confirm that he's even a Doctor, would you allow him to do surgery on your brain? So, bringing the conversation back to reality, how can you trust that the person/people who wrote the NWT, the person/people that expect you to believe that it's CORRECTLY translated and inspired of God know anything at all about Scripture, Hebrew, Greek, OR brain surgery?

"So by comparing the NWT with the KJV, we should be able see which one is:
1. Accurate and 2. Consistent".

You're still not explaining how you can compare a translation (NWT) that was created in the 1960s with a translation (KJV) that was not only created over 350 years earlier, but has been studied and supported by THOUSANDS of Scholars, and come up with yours being "accurate and consistent". What supports your version?

As for the whole "cross v. stake" thing, research simply states that the word "Stauros" has several meanings. I don't care to debate that further, because it feels like we're starting to get hung up on the cross/stake/stauros/xylon/tree/piece of wood/post/patibulum, and any other names for it, and not what Jesus DID on that crucifixion instrument. Just as it's not necessary for my salvation to know Jesus' skin color (Yes, I've been asked), It's not necessary for my salvation to know the correct name for the cross. If I got that wrong, God will deal with me either here, or when I die. Besides, the NWT changes far more important Scripture than that. But I will
make one last comment regarding this:

"I mean are you able to explain it in a very simple but accurate way that anyone even a child can understand it"?

Pertaining as much to the cross as other areas in God's word, we're not supposed to CHANGE it's meaning just so we can get a child to understand it.

"Sure, I have no disagreement with what you said but what I said is in the context of God's Creation - who is the very firstborn of every creation, the very first being created. The Scripture is clear on this - it's Jesus Christ."

I have looked at a LOT of research on this, and they all say just about the same thing, so I picked ONE response from CARM.org to quote here on this. I didn't choose CARM.org because it's any more or less in line with my thinking, because as I said, they all say about the same thing and use the same Scripture. I had to choose one, and I chose that one:

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exists." (Col. 1:15-17, for context.  The New World Translation - Emphasis added.  Note the NWT's addition of 'other' into the text four times.  This is discussed here.)

The Jehovah's Witnesses interpret the word "firstborn" here to mean "first created" because it is consistent with their theological presupposition that Jesus is a created thing.  Of course, Jesus, the word become flesh (John 1:1,14) is not a created thing.  But that hasn't stopped the Watchtower organization from claiming He is.  Nevertheless, there is a Greek word for "first created" and it was in use at the time of Paul's writing to the Colossians.  He did not use it here.  The Greek for "firstborn" is proto with tikto which would give us "firstborn" and that is what we find here in Colossians 1:15.  The Greek for "first created" would be proto with ktizo and it is not used here.

Second, the biblical use of the word "firstborn" is most interesting. It can mean the first born child in a family (Luke 2:7), but it can also mean "pre-eminence." In Psalm 89:20, 27 it says, "I have found David My servant; with My holy oil I have anointed him...I also shall make him My first-born" (NASB). As you can see, David, who was the last one born in his family was called the firstborn by God. This is a title of preeminence.

Third, firstborn is also a title that is transferable:

Gen. 41:51-52, "And Joseph called the name of the first-born Manasseh: For, said he, God hath made me forget all my toil, and all my fatherï's house. And the name of the second called he Ephraim: For God hath made me fruitful in the land of my affliction" (NASB)

Jer. 31:9, "...for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is My firstborn (NASB)."

Scripture best interprets scripture. Firstborn does not require a meaning of first created as the Jehovah's Witnesses say it means here.  "Firstborn" can mean the first born person in a family and it can also be a title of preeminence which is transferable.  That is obvious since Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1,14) and is also the first born son of Mary.  In addition, He is the pre-eminent one in all things. The Jehovah's Witnesses should consider this when they examine Col. 1:15.  They should also abandon the Watchtower which guides them in their thinking and believing."

--------------------------------------------------------------



As for the "Jesus isn't God" argument, I want to list a few verses of scripture from the NWT for you to compare and reconcile:

Isa 7:14 - Therefore Jehovah himself will give ​YOU​ men a sign: Look! The maiden herself will actually become pregnant, and she is giving birth to a son, and she will certainly call his name Im‧man′u‧el.

Isa 9:6 - For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, MIGHTY GOD, ETERNAL FATHER, Prince of Peace

Compare with:

Mt 1:23 - Look! The virgin will become pregnant and will give birth to a son, and they will call his name Im‧man′u‧el,” which means, when translated, “WITH US IS GOD.” (not "A" god)
_________________

Ex 20:8-10 - “Remembering the sabbath day to hold it sacred,9you are to render service and you must do all your work six days.10But the seventh day is a sabbath to Jehovah your God. You must not do any work, you nor your son nor your daughter, your slave man nor your slave girl nor your domestic animal nor your alien resident who is inside your gates.

Compare with:

Mk 2:28 - hence the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath

__________________

Hos 13:4 - “But I am Jehovah your God from the land of Egypt, and there was no God except me that you used to know; AND THERE WAS NO SAVIOR BUT I."

Compare with:

Lk 2:11 - because there was born to ​YOU​ today a Savior, who is Christ [the] Lord, in David’s city.

Jn 4:42 - and they began to say to the woman: “We do not believe any longer on account of your talk; for we have heard for ourselves and we know that this man is for a certainty the savior of the world.”

Jn 20:27-29 - Next he said to Thomas: “Put your finger here, and see my hands, and take your hand and stick it into my side, and stop being unbelieving but become believing.”28In answer Thomas said to him: “MY LORD AND MY GOD!"

__________________

Rom 8:9 ("God" and "Jesus" used interchangeably) - However, ​YOU​ are in harmony, not with the flesh, but with the spirit, if God’s spirit truly dwells in ​YOU. But if anyone does not have Christ’s spirit, this one does not belong to him.

Jn 10:20 - "I and the Father are one."

Mk 2:5-7 - And when Jesus saw their faith he said to the paralytic: “Child, your sins are forgiven.” Now there were some of the scribes there, sitting and reasoning in their hearts:7“Why is this man talking in this manner? He is blaspheming. Who can forgive sins except one, God?



Lastly, I've asked a few questions a few times and didn't get an answer, so I'm going to ask them again. Please answer them in your next email if you would be so kind:

1. Why did God allow Christianity to go on for 19 centuries believing in a flawed/false Bible?

2. Why did God wait 19 centuries before raising up your church's "scholars" to get His Word right? Why didn't he raise up a scholar in the 3rd century? The 6th? The 8th? The 10th? The 13th? The 17th?

2a. Why did God wait until the 1960's, deep into what many Christians (including me) believe are the very end times, to correct His Word?

3. Where were the Jehovah Witnesses of the 1st century to correct the authors of the New Testament? Again, why did no one over 1900 years come forward and say "HEY! You've got a lot of this wrong, you know. Jesus WAS God? No no no, Jesus was A god (lower case "g"). We need to correct this, because our eternity depends on it!"?

4. Since the original 144,000 obviously preached a false doctrine, why didn't God correct them so they could spread the RIGHT message? Does that mean they went to hell, because they preached a false doctrine?

Thanks for the info.

ANSWER: Ok Ron, fair enough.

Let's deal with the firstborn and put aside the rest for now. That way the focus is only on one thing.

Like you said:

"I have looked at a LOT of research on this, and they all say just about the same thing, so I picked ONE response from CARM.org to quote here on this. I didn't choose CARM.org because it's any more or less in line with my thinking, because as I said, they all say about the same thing and use the same Scripture. I had to choose one, and I chose that one: "

""He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. Also, he is  before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exists." (Col. 1:15-17, for context. The New World Translation - Emphasis added. Note the NWT's addition of 'other' into the text four times. This is discussed here.) "

"The Jehovah's Witnesses interpret the word "firstborn" here to mean "first created"  because it is consistent with their theological presupposition that Jesus is a created thing. Of course, Jesus, the word become flesh (John 1:1,14) is not a created thing. But that hasn't stopped the Watchtower organization from claiming He is.  Nevertheless, there is a Greek word for "first created" and it was in use at the time of Paul's writing to the Colossians. He did not use it here. The Greek for "firstborn" is proto with tikto which would give us "firstborn" and that is what we find here in Colossians 1:15. The Greek for "first created" would be proto with ktizo and it is not used here. "

So basically what your saying is that Jehovah's Witnesses got it wrong when they said that the man who became to be known as Jesus Christ is NOT the "firstborn of all creation" meaning NOT the "first created" from all of God's creations.


But if Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong and you're correct, then what makes you so sure that you got it right and we got it wrong?


Looking at your explanation, it seems that you're main support to your claim is the difference between the two Greek words:

"proto with ktizo" - which means based on what you said "first created"
"proto with tikto" - which means based on what you said "firstborn"

Where according to you, "The Greek "proto with tikto" was used as "firstborn" ...in Colossians 1:15"

Thus, your claim comes down to this:

By using "proto with ktizo" (first-created) instead of "proto with tikto" (firstborn) Jehovah's Witnesses made a grave error.

Interesting take Ron, but you forgot one very important information in what you said. That is, when Paul said, "the firstborn" (πρωτότοκος prōtotokos) you left out "of all creation" (πᾶς pas κτίσις ktisis (Strongs) and just concentrated on "firstborn".


Here's how the NWT renders it:  "prototokos pases ktiseos," "the firstborn of all creation."

Thus by NOT considering the REST of the verses, the context was lost and led you to believe that Jesus was NOT "the firstborn of all creation."

Interestingly enough the KJV is in agreement with the NWT when it translated -     

"πρωτότοκος πᾶς κτίσις / prōtotokos pas ktisis" into "the firstborn of every creature: ".

So on this instance, if the NWT is wrong then the KJV is wrong also - in referring to Jesus as a CREATION!


In addition the 'Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament' said the following on page 79:


"a noun [in the case of Colossians 1:15, this would be prototokos or firstborn] may be defined, by indicating in the genitive [in Colossians 1:15, this would be pases ktiseos or of all creation] the whole [creation] of which it [firstborn] is a part." Thus, according to Thayer's Greek Lexicon on page 555, " [Jesus]....came into being through God prior to the entire universe of created things."

If you noticed what it said Ron, it basically said that Jesus is a "PART" of something, that is "PART" of CREATION - the "whole creation". The very first one the "firstborn OF all creation"<b> by God.

So the question back to you is, what is Jesus "firstborn OF" (if not creation)?


Notice also this statement from Paul at Col 1:18:


which reads: "and he is the head of the body, the congregation. He is the beginning, the <b>firstborn from the dead
, that he might become the one who is first in all things."

Question back to you is, what is Jesus "firstborn OF" (πρωτότοκος prōtotokos) in this verse (if not from the dead)?


Also, by saying the Jesus was the "prototokos pases ktiseos," "the firstborn of all creation", this indicated that he had a beginning.


Does the Scripture support this fact? Indubitably!

Here:

““And to the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ce′a write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God,” (Revelation 3:14 see 2 Cor 1:20 to know who the Amen is - Jesus Christ)

So in short  -  according to the apostles John and Paul, Jesus is INDEED "the beginning of the creation by God", "the firstborn of all creation".

There's no doubt about it.

I'll stop here to wait for your reply.



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: "Interesting take Ron, but you forgot one very important information in what you said. That is, when Paul said, "the firstborn" (πρωτότοκος prōtotokos) you left out "of all creation" (πᾶς pas κτίσις ktisis (Strongs) and just concentrated on "firstborn"."

"Prototokos" is not used here in the sense of a fisrst-born child, but to show pre-eminence. The problem goes right back to what I keep telling you; you are using a bible that has been changed to reflect the ideology of your church. Read:

"The word “prototokos” is used approximately 130 times in the Septuagint (LXX). About70 of those instances will be found in the genealogical lists of Genesis and Chronicles, and here it retains its literal meaning of “first-born.” (5) The Hebrew word “bekor” isconsistently translated by “prototokos” in the LXX. It must be remembered that the“bekor,” the first
-born, was entitled to the double portion (Deuteronomy 21:17), to theblessing (Genesis 27), and to special treatment (Genesis 43:33).(6) An etymological study of “bekor” reveals that it is not related in its root meaning to either the ideas of “protos” or “tokos,” and hence the meanings might have become “detached altogether from the idea of birth or the whole question of origin.” (7)

This idea of “prototokos” is seen clearly in the Old Testament. For example, theSeptuagint translators utilized “prototokos” in their rendition of Exodus 4:22: “Then youshall say to Pharaoh, „Thus says the LORD, “Israel is My son, My first-born.”‟ ” (LXX:“prototokos”). Obviously here the emphasis is on the primacy of Israel‟s relation to God. Of all nations, Israel is chosen specially by God to occupy a place of high honor andesteem. In 1 Chronicles 5:1-2 we read of Reuben, the first-born of Israel, losing hisbirthright for his sin. Here the idea of first-born carries with it much more than just temporal ascendancy.

In Jeremiah 31:9 the Scriptures record God as saying, “I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is My first-born.” Passages such as this provided a basis for the later Rabbinicinterpretation that referred to the nation of Israel as God‟s “first-born” in the special sense of Israel‟s superiority and exaltation above the nations of the earth. Seeminglythe most significant passage is to be found at Psalm 89:27: “I shall also make him My first-born, the highest of the kings of the earth.” This highly Messianic passage paves the way for a solid understanding of the use of “prototokos” in the New Testament, especially in relation to the Messiah, Jesus. In this passage, a clear emphasis on thepre-eminence and superiority of the coming Messiah is emphasized."



"But if Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong and you're correct, then what makes you so sure that you got it right and we got it wrong?"

I've answered this question so many times, that I can't believe you're still asking it. But let's do it one more time.

First of all, I'm not correct, God is. And I give far more credibility and deference to a Bible that has over 400 years of study by thousands of Scholars, than I do to a version created roughly 50 years ago that has ZERO credibility. I say that because, until I can know more about the academic credentials of your church's "scholar(s)", I will go with the plainest conclusion; that your church doesn't want the world to know anything about it's "scholar(s)" because your bible, that changes Scripture NOT to correct mistranslations, but to fit your churches theology/doctrine, would be further shown to be false.


That being said, I would appreciate your addressing fully the issues of my last email left unanswered.

Answer
Hi Ron,

I got what you're saying but the problem with it is that the subject that's being propounded by the apostle Paul at 1 Col 1:15 IS NOT lineage (as in a family line) nor has anything to do with birthright (the one who who have the pre-eminence of being firstborn in a family). Again it ALL had to do with who is the ONE who was first born in creation. The very first, as KJV puts it: "the firstborn of every creature: (πρωτότοκος πᾶς κτίσις / prōtotokos pas ktisis)".

On this point the NWT is correct. Interestingly enough many translations also used the Greek word "prōtotokos" for describing Jesus Christ as the "the firstborn of every creature"

Notice:

KJV    
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
NKJV   
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
NLT    
Christ is the visible image of the invisible God.
He existed before anything was created and is supreme over all creation,fn
fn:1:15 Or He is the firstborn of all creation
NIV
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
ESV    
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
RVR60
El es la imagen del Dios invisible, el primogénito de toda creación.
NASB
fnHe is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
RSV    
He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation;
ASV    
who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;
YLT    
who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation,
DBY    
who is image of the invisible God, firstborn of all creation;
WEB    
Who is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of every creature:
HNV    
who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
TR
ὅς ἐστιν εἰκὼν τοῦ θεοῦ τοῦ ἀοράτου πρωτότοκος πάσης κτίσεως

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Col&c=1&t=NIV#s=t_bibles_1108015

As such Jesus has the pre-eminence of being the very first to be created by God.

Now on to the rest of what you said:

1. Why did God allow Christianity to go on for 19 centuries believing in a flawed/false Bible?

Answer: The Bible IS not flawed but the translation of it from the original into the different languages was problematic as we come to discover during our time.

2. Why did God wait 19 centuries before raising up your church's "scholars" to get His Word right? Why didn't he raise up a scholar in the 3rd century? The 6th? The 8th? The 10th? The 13th? The 17th?

Answer: Jesus' own words give you the answer by way of a parable:
Listen -

“. . .“The kingdom of the heavens has become like a man that sowed fine seed in his field. 25 While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat, and left. 26 When the blade sprouted and produced fruit, then the weeds appeared also. 27 So the slaves of the householder came up and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow fine seed in your field? How, then, does it come to have weeds?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy, a man, did this.’ They said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go out and collect them?’ 29 He said, ‘No; that by no chance, while collecting the weeds, YOU uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest; and in the harvest season I will tell the reapers, First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up, then go to gathering the wheat into my storehouse.’”” (Matthew 13:24-30)

The meaning:

“. . .: “The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man; 38 the field is the world; as for the fine seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one, 39 and the enemy that sowed them is the Devil. The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels. 40 Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things. 41 The Son of man will send forth his angels, and they will collect out from his kingdom all things that cause stumbling and persons who are doing lawlessness, 42 and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where [their] weeping and the gnashing of [their] teeth will be. 43 At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Let him that has ears listen.” (Matthew 13:37-43)

In other words - Jesus let the two types of "Christian" grow together at the same time then show themselves plainly by means of their "fruits" (holy works) in the "The harvest" time which "is a conclusion of a system of things". Then only then, one is identified as "Wheatlike Christian" or a "Weedlike Christian".

We are in that period of time!

And that's is the reason why it took this long. But the Scriptures informs us too that even during the dark ages or even way back in the 2 cent C.E. after the apostles died and the Christian Church became apostate, Jesus had been with his true followers (see Matthew 28:19-20). We're not sure who they were but they can be identified by their works amongst the "weedlike Christians". Some of them became "martyrs" due to their uncompromising loyalty to God's commands.


2a. Why did God wait until the 1960's, deep into what many Christians (including me) believe are the very end times, to correct His Word?

It's due to prophecy!

Remember what was told to Daniel to do?

““And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant.”” (Daniel 12:4)

"[true] knowledge will become abundant" in the END TIMES (the LAST HOUR) because MANY if not MAJORITY of the prophecy will have been fulfilled and the "man of lawlessness" according to the apostles will been revealed!

“. . .Let no one seduce YOU in any manner, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.” (2 Thessalonians 2:3)

“And in answer Jesus said to them: “Look out that nobody misleads YOU; 5 for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. 6 YOU are going to hear of wars and reports of wars; see that YOU are not terrified. For these things must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another.” (Matthew 24:4-7)

“However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons,” (1 Timothy 4:1)

“. . .Young children, it is the last hour, and, just as YOU have heard that antichrist is coming, even now there have come to be many antichrists; from which fact we gain the knowledge that it is the last hour. . .” (1 John 2:18)


And as you point out Ron, we are in the END TIMES - The Last Days!

3. Where were the Jehovah Witnesses of the 1st century to correct the authors of the New Testament? Again, why did no one over 1900 years come forward and say "HEY! You've got a lot of this wrong, you know. Jesus WAS God? No no no, Jesus was A god (lower case "g"). We need to correct this, because our eternity depends on it!"?

The 1st century Christians were Jehovah's Witness just as the Israelites of old were his Witnesses, there was no need to correct their ORIGINAL writings for they were guided by God.

As the Scripture say:

“Why, YOU will be haled before governors and kings for my sake, for a witness to them and the nations.” (Matthew 10:18)

“And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” (Matthew 24:14)

“After they quit speaking, James answered, saying: “Men, brothers, hear me. 14 Sym′e·on has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name.” (Acts 15:13, 14)


“All the peoples of the earth will have to see that Jehovah’s name has been called upon you, and they will indeed be afraid of you.”—Deut. 28:10.


““YOU are my witnesses,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “even my servant whom I have chosen, in order that YOU may know and have faith in me, and that YOU may understand that I am the same One. Before me there was no God formed, and after me there continued to be none.” (Isaiah 43:10)

But as already mentioned, time was needed to complete and fulfill the prophecy spoken by the prophets and most of all by Jesus.




4. Since the original 144,000 obviously preached a false doctrine, why didn't God correct them so they could spread the RIGHT message? Does that mean they went to hell, because they preached a false doctrine?

No they did NOT preach false doctrines, but during their (spiritual) bondage from FALSE RELIGION - the "remnants" of the 144,000 had the incorrect ideas about certain things. But ONCE they were freed by Jesus, their leader and master from "spiritual darkness" they SLOWLY got rid of them. They were slowly but surely being purified for "sacred service to God". And right now - they are starting to "shine brighter and brighter" as we approach the final end of the "END TIMES".

“. . .and the enemy that sowed them is the Devil. The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels. 40 Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things. 41 The Son of man will send forth his angels, and they will collect out from his kingdom all things that cause stumbling and persons who are doing lawlessness, 42 and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where [their] weeping and the gnashing of [their] teeth will be. 43 At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Let him that has ears listen.” (Matthew 13:39-43)  

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