Jehovah`s Witness/Experiences with a JW

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Hello again Derrick, hope all is good.  I seem to becoming a celebrity here. I'm not an expert or ever claimed to be, but I have logic and reasoning skills.

I'd like to address Christaras' comments about me if that's okay?

1. I asked a Jw expert here a question if he could elaborate on a point he made about heaven being Trinitarion. Not only did he not make my question public, his answer was also private. He told me "not until I repent".

2. I asked a different expert here why he thought Jesus' body was dissolved before He ascended to heaven. I asked for any scriptures to support this. His reply was something like I wouldn't understand anyways, so what's the point?

So who is the one hiding? I'm just a person asking logical questions about the bible. I'm not an expert here remember?

I was reading a response by a couple of Jws about Christendom. One was talking about how Christendom thinks we are saved by grace alone, not by faith. I can't speak for everybody, but I believe you need faith in Jesus to be saved. Now this JW expert was saying you need works also. Hmmm, okay. He was quoting Ephesians 2:8-9. So I sent a question asking him how much works I needed? I, in fact, do good deeds. I don't feel a need to describe them all.  Again no answer, just a verse that had nothing to do with my question. I brought this subject up with my pastor and he chuckled. "How much is enough"?

So this Jw I work with likes to attack the trinity  doctrine. I tried to explain it to him simply. It's three distinct persons as one Godhead. Like h2o has three distinct parts. Water, steam and ice. All are different from one another, but all are still h20.  He said it doesn't make sense and laughed in my face about it. I told him that you don't have to believe in something to understand it. So after a year or so he comes up to me asking if I still believed the Father and the Son were one person? Whhhaaat? I reminded him what my thoughts were one the trinity and he apologized, saying he thought the three persons as one person with three heads was what I believed. I have read in the WT that they like to talk about this idea of the trinity. My Jw  co-worker even pointed out that some people believe that. Then Jw co-worker B comes up to me after work one day with the bible in his hand. "Kevin, can you read this verse and explain it to me". Okay that's Jesus talking to His Father. "You see, that Jesus and His Father are different people"? Really? I already knew that. Where did you get that from, the WT? Oh no I was raised Catholic and that's what they taught me.  I see the same thing happening here on the forum.

Btw Christaras, since you put so much faith in the New World Translation,(I'm assuming) could you tell me anything about the translators? Seems logical that you would want to know their qualifications. What's more important than your spiritual health? Would you go to a dentist that only finished one year of medical school even though he tells you he's the best dentist around.

Tune in later for how I tricked someone into telling the truth.

Thanks for the opportunity to defend myself Derrick. God Bless. Kevin.

Answer
Good evening, Kevin. I hope you are doing well.

I am happy to allow you to address the latest stupidity from this clown, who has absolutely no common sense.  Man, you would not believe the stuff this guy writes.  As you recall, I told you he writes to me almost constantly, and I simply reject his question.  I want to give you a sampling of some of the absurd titles he designates to himself in an attempt to show what a moron he is, and why he is subsequently rejected.  I have received writings from him with the following designations:

“Christaras the 7 headed Beast”

“Christaras Pontifex Maximus”

“Christaras the Christ”

“Christaras god”

“Christaras simply the Best”

“Christaras the Magnificant One”

“SUPER POWERFUL INVINCIBLE CHRISTARAS”

So, why would I want to waste my time conversing with a moron like that?  

He isn't wanting a sincere discussion about the Scriptures, nor is he seeking the truth of the Scriptures.  He basically bounces from one side to the other.  When he first wrote me several years ago, he was just like he is now....The JWs were the greatest thing since sliced bread, and they were "holy" and wonderful and all that, and he was out to get the "apostates" such as myself.  So, I started rejecting him then.  Well, he got made at Rando for condemning him to Gehenna, so for the next couple of years, he did an about-face and was talking about how wicked Rando was.  He no longer believed the JWs had the truth, etc.  But when I made him mad a few months back, suddenly he jumped back over to the JW side again.  He must think ultimate truth, is determined by what kind of a mood he is in.

Furthermore, he has an addiction to attention....Either positive, or negative.  I simply am not going to feed his addiction.  When you answer him, he begins to write incessantly, and you spend all your time answering every question he can think of to talk about. You finally just have to say "enough is enough".

Kevin, before I address some of your comments, I want to address something else Chrissy said in a post that I saw this morning.

CHRISSY:  “Well, this liar and accuser of true God's people, has put my email to automatic rejection. What a coward! Lol!!!”

Well Chrissy, you are actually the "liar" and "accuser" here, because you made a false statement, for which I will expect you to write an apology and a full retraction for.  

Fact is, we "Experts" do not even SEE your e-mail address when you send a question, so therefore, there is no way that I know of, to put it on "auto rejection".  I do not even HAVE your e-mail address, and would not even know what it is, had you not posted it in the forum this morning.  So, get your facts straight.  If you are wondering why the rejection came so quickly to your question, its because I happened to be IN my e-mail inbox when your question popped in.  So, it didn't take me long to open the question, and click on the "rejection" option.  And knowing how predictable you are, I knew if I left my e-mail open after rejecting your first question, your trouble-making nature would make you immediately send another one.  And predictable as you are, that is what you did.  So, I merely opened the 2nd question, and rejected it just as I did the first question.

So, there was no "auto reject"...I did it myself.  

So, who is the "liar" and the false "accuser"?

But here is what is worse...We have more dishonesty from DW's side of the board, which of course, is to be expected.  Fact is, DW knows that we as volunteers here, cannot put an e-mail on "auto reject".  If he knows a way for us to do that, I would sure like for him to post it to this board, because if I knew how to do it, then I certainly WOULD block Chrissy.  

But I can't help but wonder just why DW KNOWS that we can't do this, yet he chose to not correct Chrissy on that point, but let the false accusation stand?  Why didn't you correct him on that, DW?  You know as well as I do, that we cannot put an e-mail on "auto reject".  Unless you would care to share with this board, just how we go about doing that?

Thank you for allowing me to set him straight on that, Kevin.  Now, I want to address your points, as well.

"Hello again Derrick, hope all is good. I seem to becoming a celebrity here. I'm not an expert or ever claimed to be, but I have logic and reasoning skills."

Uh, oh....You just mentioned about "logic and reasoning".  Do you realize you just shattered their favorite LIE, as of late?  You know, that we don't think we are supposed to be "logical"?  You just disarmed them of their weapon of choice, as of late.  I guess they will have to think up another lie.

But you are correct....You are not even a volunteer on this board, so why does this moron Christaras think you are "hiding", when I have been rejecting his writings to me, where he has called us out?  I may have made mention of it in a response to you, but this just shows the complete lack of brain power, this guy has.  The elevator isn't going all the way to the top.  

The way I recall, you made a comment about a SPECIFIC JW here who refused to answer your question about Heaven being a "Trinitarian" concept, and you related your experiences with a few SPECIFIC JWs from work.  And from that, Chrissy lied and claimed that you said "JWs will not discuss the Trinity".  I'm telling you, this guy has mental problems, to get that from what you said.  You were not commenting about all JWs in general....Just a few specific ones.

That was simple enough for a person of even average intelligence, to understand.


You wrote:  "1.I asked a Jw expert here a question if he could elaborate on a point he made about heaven being Trinitarion. Not only did he not make my question public, his answer was also private. He told me "not until I repent".

2. I asked a different expert here why he thought Jesus' body was dissolved before He ascended to heaven. I asked for any scriptures to support this. His reply was something like I wouldn't understand anyways, so what's the point?

So who is the one hiding? I'm just a person asking logical questions about the bible. I'm not an expert here remember?"

Let me just point out something here.  First off, this clown Christaras, has no idea what a JW said to you in a response.  So, where does he come off implying that you are not telling the truth, and INVENTING a statement you didn't even make?  See, that's just their style.  Without lies, they would have nothing at all to say.

But as you said....You aren't hiding from anything.  You simply write to the board with questions, and some of those questions were rejected by JWs.  So, what is his problem with your stating exactly what happened?

As for getting the Scripture about Jesus' body being dissolved, good luck with that one.  Let me know if you ever get it.  I have asked for it about a thousand times, and am STILL yet to see it.  And JWs say we can't defend OUR doctrine from the Bible, but instead use personal attacks?  What a joke!

The second thing I want to point out, is that Chrissy himself is not even a JW, to be pretending to defend their position.  Does he REALLY think they even WANT him answering for their side, or trying to defend their teachings?  He is under some sort of delusion.  Here you were, sharing about how a JW refused to answer your question, so Chrissy is going to take up the reins, like he is capable of defending JW doctrine?

But like you said....You are a questioner.  So, what is all this ranting and raving, about you "hiding"?

Nobody is "hiding" from that clown.  Fact is, I don't "hide" from anyone.  I simply am ignoring him, because he's a grade A pest.  And as for the ridiculous assertion that I don't discuss doctrine, I have spent the last 14 years on this board, discussing every doctrine imaginable, that pertains to JWs.  And they know it.  DW has personally gotten pounded in discussions on what the Bible says about lying, the teaching of Christ's bodily resurrection, the existence of Hell, etc.  There are STILL questions he was asked on ALL of those topics, that he has never answered.

Furthermore, he has been asked about 20 times now, WHO we are to obey and follow, when the Bible and the "Slave", are in conflict.  He has still not answered that question.

He has no room to talk about not defending beliefs.

As for Christaras, I have already told this board he will not be allowed to spew his hateful and Satanic venom through my profile.  I have nothing to prove to him.  The last Biblical discussion we were in, he was completely demolished, on the topic of life after death, and who goes to Heaven.  He left numerous Scriptures and questions unanswered, and finally told me that Jesus and Paul contradicted each other, and finally....That maybe Jesus was contradicting HIMSELF.  

So, I think its pretty well established, that Christaras doesn't fare well in Bible discussions.  Why should I waste my time on letting him change the subject and start another topic, when he never did even finish the PREVIOUS topic?

Let him say what he wants to...But he knows the truth deep down.  I think that is what is motivating him now, because he thinks by talking about the Trinity, he can get his "revenge" for the thrashing he took in the other discussion.

I simply grew bored matching wits with an unarmed person.


You wrote...."I was reading a response by a couple of Jws about Christendom. One was talking about how Christendom thinks we are saved by grace alone, not by faith. I can't speak for everybody, but I believe you need faith in Jesus to be saved."

I didn't catch that particular discussion, but if it was actually said, that "Christendom thinks we are saved by grace alone, and NOT by faith", then that person is WAY off base.  There is NO salvation without faith in the finished work of Christ....none.  These people will just say whatever pops into their mind, I am fully convinced.  Doesn't matter if its true or not.  In fact, the Scripture clearly says it is "by grace THROUGH faith" .

Wow, think of the implications of that statement.  If we are saved only by God's grace, but we don't even have to have faith in Christ, would that effectively mean that EVERYONE on earth is saved?  Or, does God simply pick and choose who He wants to save, regardless of whether they have faith?  Wow....This is why JWs have no business talking about what we believe.  The ones who do the most talking, are completely clueless.


You:  "So I sent a question asking him how much works I needed? I, in fact, do good deeds. I don't feel a need to describe them all.  Again no answer, just a verse that had nothing to do with my question. I brought this subject up with my pastor and he chuckled. "How much is enough"?"

That's a good question.  If we are saved by our works, then a few questions arise....

1.  How MANY good works do we have to do?
2.  How LONG do we have to keep doing them?
3.  What if we become disabled, and can no longer do those works that we once did?
4.  How would a person EVER know if they have done enough, or even the RIGHT works, so that they could have assurance of salvation?

Actually, the point they miss, is that good works are supposed to be the FRUIT of being saved...Not the means by which it is attained.  To imply that good works somehow save us, is to insult the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross, as though it is insufficient to do the job without our efforts being added to it.


You said...."So this Jw I work with likes to attack the trinity doctrine."

Yeah, most of them do.  And the funny part is, the ones who attack it the most, don't even have a clue what it is.  Just read any post in this forum from Eddie or Rando on the subject, and you will see what I mean.

And they think they have actually proven something, when they show you that Jesus and the Father are distinct Persons.  They honestly do not know the difference between the Trinity and Modalism, or they would never even use that ridiculous argument.  If a person thinks Jesus is the Father, then they are NOT a Trinitarian.  Just ask any member of the UPC Church.  They believe Jesus is ALL 3 Persons, or more accurately, 3 manifestations.  And they will tell you right up front, they are NOT Trinitarians.

But again, this is all because of the complete failure of the Watchtower literature, to CORRECTLY present what the Trinity teaches.  So, you have millions of JWs spouting off what they have read, and you can't even tell them it is inaccurate, because they don't think the Society would print it, if it wasn't true.

And you are correct....This very same thing happens here in the forum.

You...."Btw Christaras, since you put so much faith in the New World Translation,(I'm assuming) could you tell me anything about the translators? Seems logical that you would want to know their qualifications. What's more important than your spiritual health? Would you go to a dentist that only finished one year of medical school even though he tells you he's the best dentist around."

Well, the average JW himself, cannot tell you anything about the translators.  In fact, JWs know even less about the identity of the translators, than those on the outside, who have discovered who they were.


But Kevin, let me just clarify something about Christaras.  His memory is apparently quite short.  What he seems to be forgetting, is that when he first wrote me several years back, we DID debate and discuss the Trinity.  He didn't fare well then, and he won't now.  I simply have no motivation to spend hours of my evenings, going over the same arguments again, with someone who refers to me as a "pig of satan", is full of pride and arrogance, and who has no desire to seek for truth, but simply wants to argue and attack.  In fact, it is unscriptural to do so.

I have discussed the Trinity with people who were FAR smarter than him, that's for sure.


You said...."Tune in later for how I tricked someone into telling the truth."

I will be looking forward to hearing it.  Its a shame when you have to "trick" a JW into telling the truth.  I thought they were supposed to be honest, since they claim to have "the truth".  Can you figure that one out....Why some of them think its acceptable to lie?  

Seems like they are the ones "picking and choosing" which verses apply today, huh?


"Thanks for the opportunity to defend myself Derrick. God Bless. Kevin."

Absolutely.  Like I said, the guy is a troll.  I don't feed trolls.  But since he called you out like a moron, and he evidently does not have the brains to understand that you are a reader and a questioner, I am more than happy to let you address him.

Like its any of his business what you write to me, to begin with.  He's such a hypocrite, he wants to act like the JW religion is "the truth", but he doesn't even have the brains to join it himself.  How hypocritical can he be?

I could just see him out there cheering Noah on, and saying "Atta boy, Noah.  I am behind you 100%, and I think you are doing wonderful job building that ark.  I'm with you all the way" ....But then, when it starts to rain, not even having the brains to walk up the ramp and get on board.

See what I mean?  He likes to play both sides, for the purpose of causing trouble.  If he REALLY believed the JW religion alone holds the truth, how dense would he have to be, to not join it?

Well, its getting a little late, and I am going to hit the hay.  

Have a good one, and God bless you and your family.


Derrick  

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Derrick Holland

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I was raised in the religion known as Jehovah`s Witnesses for 13 years. Since becoming a born-again Christian, I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history. I can answer questions about their doctrines from the perspective of Biblical Christianity. To be clear: Jehovahs Witnesses is the religion of my upbringing, though I myself was never baptized into the religion, nor have I ever been considered as a Jehovahs Witness.

Experience

29 years of Biblical research into the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, and how they differ from the teachings of the Watchtower.

Organizations
I would advise each questioner to this forum, to carefully READ the profiles of the various volunteers. There are several such as myself, who are not practicing JWs, but will provide you with an accurate and honest answer, regarding JW teaching. If we don't know the answer, we will try to research and get it for you. There are also some excellent practicing JWs here, who also endeavor to give you a factual and honest answer, based on their point of view. I believe by getting both points of view, the questioner can weigh the evidence for themselves, and make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are also 3 here who claim to be JWs, but do NOT give honest, or well-researched answers. They will tell you only what they want you to believe, and they often hide facts about the history of their religion, as well as print untruths about other people's beliefs. This is done in an attempt to deceive the unsuspecting reader. It can be easily seen who these 3 are, simply by reading the public posts and "answers" which they write. Their posts will normally be filled with personal attacks, and if you question them about some teaching or aspect of the Watchtower that makes them uncomfortable, they will often reject your question, question your motives for asking it, tell you that you have been reading "apostate" sites, or turn the conversation into an attack on another expert. These ones are better avoided, as there is nothing to be gained by way of positive discussion, as they are not interested in intelligent conversation, or honest dialogue. If after reading the forum, you still have any questions as to who they are, just ask me, and I will be happy to tell you. And I can also provide documentation of their willful dishonesty. One thing is for certain...in a forum where people from both sides claim to be "Christians", there should never be any willful lying. Such ones only create a distraction in the forum, and provide nothing of any real value.

Education/Credentials
High School, some college. Studies of God's Word, the Bible, and how it compares to JW theology. I have found my own personal study and experiences to be far more valuable than any formal education or training. The Bible message is clear...Salvation is ONLY through and by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and no religious organization has a thing to do with it. While attendance at a Bible-preaching, Bible-believing church is a must for spiritual growth and fellowship, no church can grant salvation to its members. Nor is joining a particular group a prerequisite for being saved.

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