Jehovah`s Witness/Mediator

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Question
If Christ is not the mediator for JWs...
How can he be an intercessor for them?

If he cannot be an intercessor for them...
How can they pray to God through Jesus?

If they cannot pray to God through Jesus...
How can they receive forgiveness for their sins?

If they cannot receive forgiveness for their sins...
How can they expect to be saved and live in paradise?

Seriously, if Jesus is not their mediator, then who is?

"The "great crowd" of "other sheep" that is forming today is not in that new covenant. However, by their associating with the "little flock" of those yet in that covenant they come under benefits that flow from that new covenant." Watchtower 1979 Apr 1 p.31

"They recognize that they are not spiritual Israelites in the new covenant mediated by Jesus Christ, nor part of the "chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation."-1 Pet. 2:9. Yet they do benefit from the operation of the new covenant. They benefit from this just as, in ancient Israel, the "alien resident" benefited from residing in among the Israelites who were in the Law covenant.-Ex. 20:10; Lev. 19:10, 33, 34; Rev. 7:9-15. To keep in relationship with "our Savior, God," the "great crowd" needs to remain united with the remnant of spiritual Israelites." Watchtower 1979 Nov 15 p.27 Benefiting from "One Mediator Between God and Men"

It seems pretty clear that their mediator is the "little flock", "faithful and discreet slave", or more clearly the Governing Body.

Answer
Good evening, Richard.  It is great to hear from you. I hope you and your family are doing well.

You know, I have actually prepared a refutation of Eddie's latest claims that Jesus is not Mediator for all men.  As I have spent a good part of today typing a refutation of his other falsehoods, I wasn't going to post the "Mediator" article until tomorrow, but since I did just finish it a little while ago, and since I received this question, I will take this opportunity to post it in my answer here.

First though, you hit on something key here....""The "great crowd" of "other sheep" that is forming today is not in that new covenant. However, by their associating with the "little flock" of those yet in that covenant they come under benefits that flow from that new covenant." Watchtower 1979 Apr 1 p.31

Now, while they would get highly upset if we said that the Watchtower Society or the "anointed" is their Mediator, I would like to see how they would explain the above comment.  "By associating with the 'little flock of those yet in that covenant,  they come under the benefits that flow from that covenant" ??????  Is this not essentially saying that the "anointed" are the "Mediator" for those not in the New Covenant?  How else can you take that statement?

And like you said....If Jesus is not their Mediator, then WHO IS??  Like you, I cannot honestly reach any other conclusion, than the one you did...That this amounts to the "anointed", or possibly the GB (given the "new light" on the Slave's identity), as being the "Mediator", although they would not come right out and say this.

And like you also asked....How can they be forgiven of ANY of their sins, apart from the New Covenant, which was instituted by Christ's shed blood?  I mean, isn't this Scripture clear?

Matthew 26:28-  "For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins."

Now, if the shed blood of Christ is the "blood of the New Testament/Covenant", and it was shed for the remission of sins, then there seems to be NO way to have one's sins remitted, outside of the New Covenant.  To claim otherwise and to say that they are not in the New Covenant, is to deny the shed blood of Jesus Christ on their behalf.  This is extremely dangerous, because they are unknowingly removing themselves from the one thing that provides remission of their sins.

This is serious business, and I believe your above questions, are deserving of an answer.  I wonder if they have ever thought about it in those terms, and followed their teaching to its logical conclusion?  I am afraid most of them haven't.

Now Richard, if its okay, I want to post my research on the Scriptural teaching of Jesus' role as Mediator, for all men.  This is what I was going to post anyway, but this question is the perfect place to do it.  I will be addressing several of Eddie's most recent comments, regarding this issue.....


IS JESUS CHRIST YOUR MEDIATOR?

With all of the unscriptural teachings taught by the Watchtower, this is probably the worst and most blatantly unscriptural, for it flies right in the face of very clear and easy-to-understand Bible passages.

I regret that Eddie chose not to give a single Scripture to back up his notion that Jesus is Mediator for only 144,000.  Wait, that’s right…He couldn’t.  He doesn’t have any.  

I maintain that Eddie’s belief on this is Scripturally indefensible. In a moment, I will provide a few passages that refute this idea.

1. Please tell us, from the Scripture, just WHY you think Jesus is Mediator for only a select group of people.

2. Also, please explain how you can make this claim, in light of the following Scriptures I will now list.


Some Scriptures showing that Jesus is Mediator for ALL people.....


1 Timothy 2:3-6-  "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

 (v.4) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

 (v.5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

 (v.6) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time."
 

Now, Eddie’s attempt to explain this passage, was quite interesting.  And quite irresponsible.  Again, let’s not forget that Eddie HAS to tamper with the obvious reading of the passage, because he has a doctrine from his Organization, to defend.  Therefore, when the Scriptures disagree with the Organization’s teaching, rather than change the teaching, the Scriptures themselves must be twisted.

He actually had the nerve to write the following statement:

Conclusively then, there are two subject matters being discussed by Paul when he said what he said in 1 Tim. 2:4-6

1. The Salvation of ALL men through the ransom sacrifice that Jesus Christ gave ... (1 Tim 2:4 and 6)

And…

2. That Jesus is the mediator of a "New Covenant" between "God and men" (the apostles and the rest of the holy ones - anointed ones) to be Priest and Kings with Jesus Christ in God's Kingdom. (1 Tim 2:4, Heb 9:15, Rev 20:6)

Incredible.  Basically, Eddie’s explanation is this….

Verse 4 is talking about ALL people, verse 5 is talking about a SMALL group of people, and verse 6 is back to talking about ALL people again.

Really?  Now Readers, I ask you….If you had nothing but the Bible in your hand, and you had neither my comments, Eddie’s comments, nor a Watchtower explanation for this, would ANYBODY read this passage and come to such a ridiculous conclusion?  If they weren’t trying to keep a doctrine intact, that is?

Why on earth would verse 5 even be “sandwiched” in there, between 2 verses that are clearly talking about ALL of mankind?  For what logical reason?  What gives Eddie the authority to tamper with God’s Word in this manner?

Seriously, I really want to hear some more from him, on this statement of his.  He claims I added the word “all” to the Scripture, but he is actually trying to add the word “some”, by implication.  The word “all” is clearly taught in the surrounding context.  Why else would we have just read that God wants “ALL men to be saved” (v. 4) , and that Christ “gave Himself a ransom for ALL” (v. 6) , but verse 5 really isn’t talking about “ALL” people?

I think he had best consider the wording again, because verse 6 is worded in such a way, that it is obvious that it is a continuation from verse 5...not a separate thought, as Eddie said when he claims….“there are two subject matters being discussed by Paul”

No Ed, there is ONE subject matter being discussed…the redemption of all of mankind.  And the wording of the verses, prove it.

Verse 6 is Paul continuing the SAME subject matter that he has been previously discussing in the prior verses.  Anybody with even average intelligence can see that.  Paul is saying that God wants ALL men to be saved, He provided a Mediator for that purpose, and that Christ accomplished this role by giving Himself a “ransom for ALL”.  That is the teaching of verses 4-6, when taken as one smoothly flowing thought.  If you believe Eddie’s nonsense, then Paul cannot stay focused on one subject, but jumps back and forth.

In fact, let’s go a step further, and point out that not only is verse 6 a CONTINUATION of verse 5, but verse 5 is also a continuation of verse 4, because verse 5 starts with the word “FOR” .  Let’s look at it closely….

(v. 4)- “Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Verse 5 will expound on the thought begun in verse 4.….

(v. 5)- FOR there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;”

Verse 6 is a continuation of verse 5...Verse 5 identifies WHO the Mediator is, and verse 6 is describing what He DID to be the Mediator…

(v. 6)-WHO gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”

What could be more plain?  Paul isn’t stuttering here, nor is he getting momentarily side-tracked from one subject to another, and then back to the original subject again, as Eddie wants you to believe.  He is making one continuous thought….God wants everyone to be saved, He has provided a Mediator for that purpose, and that Mediator is Christ, Who gave Himself a ransom for ALL.  

This business of God wanting all to be saved, but only providing a Mediator for some, is nothing more than an additional wheelbarrow load of Eddie’s unscriptural garbage, which we have all seen plenty of here lately.

How exactly, are those without a Mediator, supposed to be saved then?  I wonder what Scripture Eddie can supply for that one?

But again….Why would that verse (v. 5) about Jesus being the ONE MEDIATOR be stuck right there in the middle of 2 verses stating that God wants ALL men to be saved, and that Christ was a ransom for ALL?

I have an idea why....Because Jesus is the Mediator for ALL men, and this is how ALL men can be saved....by trusting in His Mediatorship by His death on the cross….contrary to Eddie’s belief that Paul is talking about 2 different subject matters here.  

What a perversion of the plain reading of the passage!  He should be ashamed of himself.  And not just ashamed, but VERY afraid.  He is tampering with the very Word of God, and the Savior Who died to be His Mediator.

But let’s be fair to Eddie, and give him a chance…Ed, please tell us where in this passage do you see that Jesus' role as Mediator is for only 144,000?  If its there, then I’m sure the reading audience would like to see it.  We are waiting….

Now, at this time, I want to break down this doctrine of Christ being Mediator, a great deal more.  I want to show some more Scripture, which will once and for all, show Eddie’s comments to be completely false. I am pretty sure he will start screaming about “being attacked”, as if he hasn’t been doing that to me.  I am confident he will do this, to get everyone’s mind off of the Scriptures that are being presented.  But don’t let that sidetrack anyone who is reading, because this topic is one of life or death.  I believe of all the “damnable heresies” (2 Peter 2:1) the WT teaches, this one is the most serious, because it cuts right to the heart of what role Jesus plays in our salvation.


Let us consider Galatians 3:19-22.......

"19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.  

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

22 But the scripture hath concluded ALL under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe."


Now, according to verse 22, WHO is concluded under sin, and needs a Mediator? Who is it that can receive the promise of eternal life through faith in Christ? It is ALL who believe. That is who the Mediator of verse 20 is for also....ALL.


Hebrews 8:6 ......" But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant#, which was established upon better promises"

(How could the New Covenant which Christ is Mediator of, be BETTER if it applies to less people? It is BETTER because it provides the way for ALL men to be saved by faith.)


Hebrews 9:14-15......" How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance."

(Again, we see the same thought repeated....that Jesus is Mediator for ALL Whom He shed His blood for, which is every man, woman, and child! It says “FOR THIS CAUSE” (His blood  having been shed), “He is the Mediator” .  And if you read on down to the end of chapter 9, you will see this message again very clearly.)

Eddie would have you believe that Jesus shed His blood for all, but is NOT the Mediator for all.  Completely contrary to this passage.


Ed, please tell me where in all of this, you see that this only applies to 144,000 privileged individuals. It says He is the Mediator "by means of death" .....So, just whom did Jesus die for? He is clearly the Mediator for those He died for, because it is His death that MAKES Him a legal Mediator.

This is not that complicated, Sir.

Perhaps at this point, it would be a good idea to define what a "Mediator" is. The word simply means a "go-between who reconciles 2 parties who are at odds" .

From Merriam Webster Online Dictionary….

“one that mediates; especially : one that mediates between parties at variance “


From Dictionary.com…..

“a person who mediates, especially between parties at variance”


From The Free Dictionary….

“One that mediates, especially one that reconciles differences between disputants.”

Now, notice ESPECIALLY the phrase in the last definition….“one that RECONCILES” .  This is very important, because there are numerous passages in addition to the ones above, that do not use the word “Mediator” , but DO use the word “reconcile” , and “reconciliation” , which is the same in meaning….Its what a Mediator does….He reconciles 2 parties.  In this case, Jesus Christ is the Mediator/Reconciler between God and men, and this applies to ALL men, because ALL men are separated from God by their sin (Romans 3:23), and NEED to be  reconciled to the Father.

Okay, if a Mediator is a "reconciler", why don't we look at some of the Scriptures which show Christ to be a "Reconciler", and see if those passages might shed some light as to WHOM He is a reconciler for….A select group of people, or ALL people.  I mean, those are our options.  If we are separated from God, as ALL men are, then ALL men need a Reconciler/Mediator of some sort.  Now, while no JW will say that the Organization acts as a Mediator, this is exactly what is the result of their doctrine, if they kick Jesus out of His Mediatorial role for most of mankind.  That leaves mankind without a Mediator….Enter the JW Organization.  

Like it or not, this is the result of them teaching that Jesus is not the Mediator for most of mankind.  If you want to be saved as someone who is NOT a member of the 144,000, then you must not just place faith in Christ’s sacrifice, but you must be a part of this Organization.  Otherwise, you are in some deep trouble.

Thankfully though, the Scriptures just let Jesus keep the job….

Romans 5:9-10- "Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life."

(This couldn't be any clearer....the only hope we have to be saved from God's wrath is through the blood of Christ. Our sin has made us an enemy of God (v. 10), and NOTICE THIS PART....WE ARE RECONCILED TO GOD BY THE DEATH OF HIS SON....This is what BEING A MEDIATOR IS....ONE WHO RECONCILES us to the One we are separated from!)


2 Corinthians 5:17-20- "17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed# unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God."


Ed, does this not clearly say that Jesus Christ reconciled THE WORLD unto Himself? How did He do this? By His death! If He died for all, then He is Mediator for all. Again, where do you see 144,000 in this?

Its real tough to make the argument that Christ reconciling THE ENTIRE WORLD unto Himself by His death, is somehow different than Him being the Mediator for the entire world.

Now, please read the next verses VERY SLOWLY, because they contain a powerful message….

Ephesians 2:16- " And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby"

Colossians 1:20-23- " And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to RECONCILE ALL things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.  

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind# by wicked works, YET NOW HATH HE RECONCILED

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;"

(It is ALL things that have been "reconciled" or "mediated" by the blood of the cross of Christ. It is for us who have been ALIENATED and ENEMIES of God by our wickedness. This is the WHOLE WORLD. And it is HIS DEATH that makes us UNBLAMEABLE in His sight! And notice verse 23 says this is the "hope of the GOSPEL that is preached to EVERY CREATURE. Again, Paul is telling us that his Gospel message is the only way we can be saved, and have Christ as our Mediator, thereby reconciling us to God.)


Consider also the following......

Romans 3:22-26- " 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon ALL them that believe: FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE:

23 For ALL have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

“26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and THE JUSTIFIER OF HIM WHICH BELIEVETH IN JESUS ."  Not ONE word about it being limited to 144,000!

The word “propitiation” , is quite interesting….

From Vocabulary.com….

“Propitiation comes from a form of the Latin verb "propitiare," which means “to appease.” If you’re doing something in propitiation, that’s your basic goal: to regain favor.

Uhm, I believe that is precisely what a Mediator does….


From Dictionary.com….

“the act of propitiating; conciliation”


From Bible Hub.com….

“an offering to appease (satisfy) an angry, offended party. 2434 (hilasmós) is only used twice (1 Jn 2:2, 4:10) – both times of Christ's atoning blood that appeases God's wrath, on all confessed sin. By the sacrifice of Himself, Jesus Christ provided the ultimate 2434 /hilasmós ("propitiation").

Again, the word “propitiation” is identical to that of a Mediator, and the passage above clearly says that Christ is a “propitiation” for ALL.

I believe these verses are a beautiful picture of what Christ, the Mediator, has done on our behalf. How dare a religious Organization come along and tell us that this doesn't even apply to all men, when it is their only hope of ever being saved.

There will be some people who are going to have a lot to answer for, when they face their Creator and Judge one day.  

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Derrick Holland

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I was raised in the religion known as Jehovah`s Witnesses for 13 years. Since becoming a born-again Christian, I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history. I can answer questions about their doctrines from the perspective of Biblical Christianity. To be clear: Jehovahs Witnesses is the religion of my upbringing, though I myself was never baptized into the religion, nor have I ever been considered as a Jehovahs Witness.

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29 years of Biblical research into the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, and how they differ from the teachings of the Watchtower.

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I would advise each questioner to this forum, to carefully READ the profiles of the various volunteers. There are several such as myself, who are not practicing JWs, but will provide you with an accurate and honest answer, regarding JW teaching. If we don't know the answer, we will try to research and get it for you. There are also some excellent practicing JWs here, who also endeavor to give you a factual and honest answer, based on their point of view. I believe by getting both points of view, the questioner can weigh the evidence for themselves, and make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are also 3 here who claim to be JWs, but do NOT give honest, or well-researched answers. They will tell you only what they want you to believe, and they often hide facts about the history of their religion, as well as print untruths about other people's beliefs. This is done in an attempt to deceive the unsuspecting reader. It can be easily seen who these 3 are, simply by reading the public posts and "answers" which they write. Their posts will normally be filled with personal attacks, and if you question them about some teaching or aspect of the Watchtower that makes them uncomfortable, they will often reject your question, question your motives for asking it, tell you that you have been reading "apostate" sites, or turn the conversation into an attack on another expert. These ones are better avoided, as there is nothing to be gained by way of positive discussion, as they are not interested in intelligent conversation, or honest dialogue. If after reading the forum, you still have any questions as to who they are, just ask me, and I will be happy to tell you. And I can also provide documentation of their willful dishonesty. One thing is for certain...in a forum where people from both sides claim to be "Christians", there should never be any willful lying. Such ones only create a distraction in the forum, and provide nothing of any real value.

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High School, some college. Studies of God's Word, the Bible, and how it compares to JW theology. I have found my own personal study and experiences to be far more valuable than any formal education or training. The Bible message is clear...Salvation is ONLY through and by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and no religious organization has a thing to do with it. While attendance at a Bible-preaching, Bible-believing church is a must for spiritual growth and fellowship, no church can grant salvation to its members. Nor is joining a particular group a prerequisite for being saved.

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