Jehovah`s Witness/More Obeservations...
Hello Bro Eddie G,
I just want to point out a few more things that shows that DH is only on this site to misrepresent Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs and promote his own. Since his profile specifically says "I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history." That tells us that he knows what we believe, but rather then be honest about what we believe, he twists things around and outright lies about what we believe. Then he tries to think that he can make rules on the forum and if they are not followed then it doesn't count. Hilarious....at any rate, the deep seeded hatred for Jehovah's Witnesses is shown in his tyrannical almost possessed disdain. If it weren't for us, I'm afraid DH would have no joy in his life, we consume his every waking thought it seems. Again he doesn't have to believe what we do, but why lie, misrepresent, and mislead people who click on the JW forum? Well we know why, he has been caught in his lies, his shifting with the wind, and his dishonest representation of what we truly believe.
Eph 4:14 "So we should no longer be children, tossed about as by waves and carried here and there by every wind of teaching by means of the trickery of men, by means of cunning in deceptive schemes"
Since he claims to be a JW Expert, why ask questions about the Mediator subject? The parts I did read were so off base it was truly sad. Being a JW Expert and on a forum for questions about JW beliefs means that you know what we believe. So why ask all the questions about the Mediator whilst making jokes and ad-libbing unless you are being deceptive. Why make dishonest statements to make it appear one way when it's really another? Ask yourself this question, who was the mediator between God and men before Jesus died for our sins? (I'm not talking about Moses who was mediator between God and Israel) Why does God need to mediate for God? His beliefs make it seem like God is losing it, if you truly know what a mediator is and does then a person should also know that there is no need for a mediator between God and men if Jesus is God! What is the point of that? If they are co equal as DH claims. What's the point in even mentioning a mediator? He does realize that Jesus was only on the earth for a few years. What about all the rest of the thousands of years before this so called God the Son came to earth or after he left earth? Since the human part died, why would God mediate for God since they are one God, there really is no need of a mediator. He cannot claim that the Son is the one who mediates because he already said that the Son is Almighty God and he already said that Jesus= Jehovah, and they are all co equal, co eternal, so according to DH's beliefs, God is the mediator for God, yet they are one God. Ha! Nonsense and illogic.
Oops, I forgot, DH doesn't really think that Jesus actually died. "We don't even believe that the Son HIMSELF ceased to exist," DH thinks he's beyond God and the Bible. That he can tell Jehovah want the ransom price means. Because the Bible clearly says, Jesus died. If he didn't really die, then someone is being dishonest, we know Jehovah cannot lie, (Heb. 6:18) and who is DH to over ride what the Bible says? Who tried to over ride what God said to Adam and Eve about if they ate the fruit they wouldn't die? Yes! The Father of the lie, Satan the Devil. (Gen. 3:4) So we see DH doing the desires of his Father. (John 8:44) because they speak the same things. The Bible according to Jehovah's laws demands that Jesus had to die completely. But DH like his Father says: "We don't even believe that the Son HIMSELF ceased to exist," which parallels what Satan said to Eve, Gen 3:3,4 "But God has said about the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden: ‘You must not eat from it, no, you must not touch it; otherwise you will die.’” 4 At this the serpent said to the woman: “You certainly will not die."
To try and prove his false beliefs DH takes it upon himself to change the meaning of words....if anyone tells you that someone has ceased to exist, what does that mean? Anyone who has common sense knows that when a person ceases to exist it means they have died, that's why the dead are called the deceased. So DH's belief denies Jesus dying for our sins. Just like Satan says, you won't really die...in fact Satan teaches no one ever really dies, that they have an immortal soul that lives on after the body dies and therefore you certainly will not die. Even though the Bible says the complete opposite.
DH: "NO Trinitarian believes that God ceased to exist when the Son died on the cross. We don't even believe that the Son HIMSELF ceased to exist, let alone the Father and Spirit."
Now if a person can't recognize that double talk, it's a crying shame! As I stated before DH doesn't even know what he believes himself. First he claims that "NO Trinitarian believes that God ceased to exist when the Son died on the cross" and then he turns around and says, "We don't even believe that the Son HIMSELF ceased to exist," He just said when the Son died on the cross, now he's saying the Son didn't HIMSELF die, which one is it?? He can't change cease to exist and say it doesn't mean what it means. But let him tell it and cease to exist doesn't mean dying, it has to mean what he says because that's the only way he can explain away utter and total illogical nonsense, and the only way he knows how to try and say that the soul is immortal. I think Satan is even laughing at how gullible people who actually believe this is. It's a shame, a shame, and very sad. But since DH insists on being where he ought not be, then he shouldn't get so knotted up about being exposed, he brought it on himself for lying and being deceptive.
Where in the Bible does it say the Son didn't actually die? Or that the human part only died but the God part which was spirit didn't? There's no scripture that says that or that even implies that. Where does it say in the Bible that Jesus didn't cease to exist for 3 days? Where in the Bible does it say cease to exist period regarding Jesus' ransom Sacrifice? NO WHERE, This is not a Bible teaching! What is the point of the ransom if it was never REALLY paid? DH believes that Jesus HIMSELF never really died for our sins and because he uses a different word for dying that it's not the same thing. People are taught about synonyms in school....are they not? If a person who is alive ceases to exist they are dead, that's what the Bible teaches (Ecc 9:5, 10)
What is a ransom, (price paid, in place of) who is that ransom paid to? Is it not God?? (Ps 49:7) So why does God have to pay himself by letting himself die (but not really die) so that he can pay himself the ransom, which isn't really paid because he never really ceased to exist to begin with?
What does the Bible say about these things? Heb 9:14 KJV "How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"
So we see that the ransom was paid to God. Why does God have to pay God a ransom? The only way the ransom is valid is if he was dead if he lives it's not valid, if he didn't really give his life or HIMSELF, it's not valid, as the Bible says:
Heb. 9:14-17 KJV "And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth."
The Bible clearly states the complete and total opposite of what DH stated he believed. 1 Cor. 15:3,4 (KJV) "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"
But DH wanting to make the false teaching of the Trinity and that we all have immortal souls try to be in the Bible, has no other choice but to change the meaning of things because the Bible clearly contradicts that demonic Trinity and immortal soul teaching. It's very sad how he thinks he can make rules yet he don't even follow his own made up rules. Like the fact that the word Trinity is not in the Bible at all, but he says the scriptures show the Trinity, which are all contradictory to each other by the way, but when we show scriptures that show Jesus is Michael and none contradict each other, he says, if you can't show me a scripture that says Jesus is Michael then it's not true. See the hypocrisy! Just as he can claim that the Trinity is there, even though it's not. We can show by the scriptures that Jesus is Michael without a scripture that directly says Jesus is Michael. (I'm paraphrasing because I want to, he will have to deal with it.)
Pagan Mythology has many teachings about ones who are both God and Man, but none of that nonsense is a Bible teaching, it's pagan teachings!
More double talk, contradictions and none of it is in the Bible!
DH: "You mention the fact that Jesus is distinct from God the Father. Of course He is. That is exactly what you would expect the Trinity to teach....a distinction of 3 separate, yet equal Persons, comprising the one true God. The Father did not become flesh and die on the cross. Neither did the Holy Spirit. That was the role fulfilled by the Son. "
But didn't he say that Jehovah was the Father and then say that Jehovah=Jesus, and then say that the Father did not become flesh? How can Jehovah=Jesus and not be Jesus who is the Son? Again if Jehovah =Jesus and Jehovah is the Father then how do you then turn around blowing in the wind and say the Father did not become flesh and die, then say the Father is not the son, and the Son is not the Father because they are 3 separate yet equal persons, 3-Unity, but ONE God, yet Jehovah=Jesus. Again that is 3 Gods no matter how much he says it makes up One God.
I'll stop here for now but lots more where that came from to keep DH busy.....
Now DH can continue on with his obsession for JW's and try to explain away his deception and dishonesty and false teachings in reply to this...it doesn't matter, his deception is exposed and he can't do a thing about it! Try as he might...it's not going to happen, but he needs to be exposed for the charlatan he's portraying himself to be by lying on Jehovah God!!
Hi Sis, Tee,
As usual, excellent post. I enjoyed reading it. You know it's quite interesting how these Trinitarians are so inept in understanding the clarity of the scriptures. I mean why is it so difficult for them to understand that their Trinity doctrine doesn't square with the Bible? Yet no matter how many times they change it, what it says, what it looks like, they can't seem to see that it will NEVER NEVER agree with the Bible. It's quite sad, rather than abandoning it like the Plague, they try to make the Bible conform with it instead.
They use Philosophy, which a highly flawed human thinking, mixed in with traditions of man and sprinkled with verses from the Bible. Verses that are questionable in origin and verses that mean something else.
And because of this, this confusing doctrine has evolved into different thoughts, where each thought is slightly or profoundly different from the other.
Case in point, notice if we compare DH's Trinity with Richard's Trinity:
In regards to equality of the Trinity, Richard says:
"The Son is subject to the Father
, and the Holy Spirit is subject to both the Father and the Son."
While DH says: "... That is exactly what you would expect the Trinity to teach....a distinction of 3 separate, yet equal Persons
Contradiction isn't it?
One says all three are equal while the other says no.
Yet there's more of this kind of confusion we see in Christendom when it comes to their doctrine.
Sad indeed, how Satan has blinded the minds of unbelievers (2 Cor 4:4).