Jehovah`s Witness/pathetic heaven?

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Question
Hello again brother Derrick, hope all I'd well with you.
I gotta laugh at these "holy ones" on here taking pot shots at you and bringing your mother into it as well.  I'm not going to say they are possessed by Satan , but they should know how to at least be cordial and polite. Turn the other cheek comes to mind. If you are truly chosen by God to witness, they might want to present a more favorable image. Isn't that why they wear suits when knocking on doors.  What if the person answering the door wasn't interested?  Do they throw eggs at the windows  and call them demonic?  One jw I worked with got so mad at someone he  said "God is going to destroy you".

It's good to see the watchtower teaching  about Jesus being the mediator  for only a select portion of humans is alive and well. I read about it, but didn't think it was true because the two jws I work with say that Jesus is mediator for all men. Just like the bible says. I wonder why they were able to come to that conclusion  by just reading the bible?  Last I checked, they don't believe the body of Jesus was smashed into billions of atoms in the tomb. They just don't believe in the bodily resurrection.  When I asked jw 'a' why Jesus would go out of His way to ask if a spirit has flesh and bones?  Jw 'a' couldn't recall Jesus ever saying that. When I sent him the verse on that his memory came back to him and he said " oh I thought you were talking about a different time after His resurrection". Funny he also didn't remember any time Jesus saying "in my name" either. At least this time he conceded that he read it ,but just forgot.

It's interesting that a couple of experts admit that you have to be a part of the organization to have hope for paradise earth. My two co-workers would and have denied that. They say things like "we don't have to ....we want to fo these things". So recently I asked jw 'a' what's the point of going to New York for the convention?  What do they reveal there that you couldn't find out here? He didn't answer, but when pressed he said attendance was mandatory, but he wanted to go. To take his whole family there set him back at least $2000 bucks not including the time off. The only reason I could think of was his daughter was getting baptized. Although he did  say that he went there because they had the Russian language at the kindom hall.

So my question is, what is so important at these conventions that you have to attend at  a great expense? What can't you learn by reading the transcripts or the audio broadcast?  I'm sure they exist.  I can't comprehend any Christian church manipulating its congregation to go somewhere at a cost that they really couldn't afford.

I'm writing this from my phone and my finger is tired.
Keep up the good work.
Kevin

Answer
Good evening, Kevin.  Its good to hear from you today, and I pray you and your family are doing well.

Well, I'm sorry that Eddie G didn't have the human decency to retract his false accusations against you.  I called him on it numerous times, and he seems to have gone silent, from the latest humiliation and exposing of his inability to tell the truth on anything.  Don't get me wrong....The question by Adam was good, and there was certainly nothing in it to "apologize" for....Its just the simple fact that he quoted it as if it was from you several times, and hurled insults at you for writing it, all the while demanding an apology from me for something I did NOT even say.  I just had to call him out for the hypocrisy.

I guess Eddie G is above apologizing.  These people have a real problem admitting their own error, that the rest of the readers can see clearly.  

Yeah, they are quite comical, aren't they?  Did you see all the "straw man" arguments that have been floating around?  I especially like DW's making up all these silly things that we don't even believe, and then proclaiming that this is how stupid "Christendom" is for believing them....When we don't even believe them.

If it weren't for lies, these guys couldn't even talk!

Yeah, they're "holy", alright.  And its pretty cheap to bring my mom into it.  She is 1,000 times the JW any of them are.  But I know they wouldn't say it if we were face to face, so why let the writings of a coward behind a keyboard, bother me?  Rando is a mental case anyway.  Did you see where he said that my mom getting what he calls "an unscriptural divorce" when I was a kid, makes me a "fornicator"?  Really?  That's a new one....The child is guilty of the parent's actions.

I don't have to explain anything to that hypocrite.  How dare he bring up something that was over 30 years ago, which she has since been re-instated in good standing, and been so ever since, when he STILL makes a practice of lying and slander to this very day.  This guy is in some really deep trouble.  Why do you think he remains anonymous?  Because his congregation would kick him out on his ear, if they found out who he was, and how he acts.

It sounds like the JWs you work with, are ignorant of their own teaching.  I think that says something about the unscriptural nature of that particular WT teaching, as to whether or not Jesus is the Mediator.  Like you, I myself have encountered several JWs who want to argue with me and accuse me of lying, when I say that they do not teach that Jesus is Mediator for all mankind.  They actually are not aware of their religion's own teaching on this subject.  It seems the ones you work with, are ignorant, as well.

But like I said...I think that is very revealing.  Basically, if a person doesn't read the WT spin on it, and just reads the Bible, they automatically come to the conclusion that Jesus is the Mediator for all.

On that topic, did you see DW's pathetic attempt to reply to the question of Jesus being Mediator?  Here, let me quote the biggest part of it....

"Jesus mediates between God and all those with a heavenly hope. No one denies this. If he was mediator for all men as Derrick claims then why is Derrick on this forum trying to "bring Witnesses to Christ" because witnesses are men too. So are Satan worshippers. So are violent criminals. So are those in hellfire(according to Derrick of course). That idea is ridiculous!

What Jesus mediates is the new covenant for spiritual Israel. Moses did the law covenant for literal Israel, Jesus does the new covenant for spiritual Israel.

All those who are not in the new covenant don't need a mediator because there is nothing to mediate. They are saved based on the fact that Jesus is their high priest. Again under the Mosaic law the high priest offered sacrifices for the INDIVIDUALS in the nation of Israel.

Jesus ended the law he become both mediator to save a nation and a high priest to save individuals.

Those with an Earthly hope support those in the new covenant(anointed)who love them all very dearly fully appreciate their wonderful support and can't wait to help make them all happy under the kingdom rule. All the anointed ones are looking forward to observing their friends welcome back their dead loved ones , grow young again, get to perfect health and experience the wonderful joy that God intended for his human creation right from the very start. There will be celebrations in the heavens as we all praise our incredible Father together."

Kevin, you know what struck me about this?  My post on Jesus' Mediatorial role, was FULL of Scripture.  Funny, that is one of the accusations you see directed at me quite often..."That demonic apostate and opposer, Derrick Holland, doesn't defend his doctrine from the Scripture!!"

And DW is one of the ones who loves to say that, more often than the rest, in fact.  Yet, in his "reply", he did NOTHING but write a bunch of stuff that is his opinion.  He stated this and that, but did not give EVEN ONE SINGLE SCRIPTURE, that pertained to the topic of Jesus being Mediator.  Not one!  DId he address any of the Scriptures I gave?  No.  Did he give any of his own?  Nope.  The only passage he gave from Matthew, was an appeal for people to come to the Organization, but nothing that actually pertained to the doctrine under discussion.

Hmm....Wonder which view is Scriptural?

And on that topic, have you seen the ridiculous comments from both he and Rando, which basically is asking...."If Jesus is the Mediator for all men, as Holland claims, then what about the people in Hell, and Satan worshippers, and blah, blah, blah?"

You know, Kevin, sometimes you just have to shake your head at how dense some people can be.

To answer that very easy and simple question....Yes, Jesus was provided as a Mediator for those people, too, so that they can come to Him for forgiveness for those acts.  If they die without coming to Him and go to Hell, then they rejected Him as their Mediator, so it did not profit them.

The Scripture is plain, in the very context of the verse that was the topic of discussion, that God wants ALL men to be saved, and provided them a Mediator.  (1 Tim. 2:4-6).  So yes, God wants ALL people to be saved.....fornicators, drug addicts, homosexuals, murderers, etc.  And yes, Jesus was the ransom for ALL men.  But it doesn't profit them, if they don't accept it.  Therefore, they did not take advantage of the fact that Jesus could have been their Mediator, reconciling them to the Father.

You know, I have seen these people say over and over, that you can't "just join" the WT Organization, but you have to "be drawn".  Of course, they never explain the millions who have left the group....Did they "just join", or were they "drawn"?  

They say that "you have to be drawn".  Well, yeah, but this also implies that some are not "drawn", and that completely ignores this verse....

John 12:32-33-  "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

This he said, signifying what death he should die."

So, does Jesus draw just SOME people, and not others?  Or does His death draw ALL men, and extend salvation to "whosoever will"?

BTW, I see it saying that Jesus would draw men to HIMSELF....I don't see anywhere in the Scripture, where He draws them to an Organization.


You mention about how they present themselves when knocking on doors.  I believe the internet is what separates the real ones, from the fakes.  If a JW really has standards and convictions (and most do), then they will act civil, even when using the internet, and on a forum where they are not known.  But for the charlatans and frauds, they may put on a good front at the KH or out in service among other JWs, but they will show their true hand on a forum like this, where they believe they are undetected.

Basically, there are good ones, and there are hypocrites who don't care how they act, because they think they are invisible....Even from Jehovah God, apparently.  Seems to me they fear the Society, more than they do the Creator.  How warped is that??

Yeah, I've heard the "God is going to destroy you", about a million times over the years.  Not just here.  Had an aunt who used to always start arguments, and then when I would answer her from the Scripture, she would go all to pieces and say that.  Oh well.

But back to the Mediator teaching.  Like you said, many JWs are not aware of this.  So, its good that there have been clear statements in this forum recently, which clearly show that they DO deny that Jesus is Mediator for all.


You said...."Last I checked, they don't believe the body of Jesus was smashed into billions of atoms in the tomb. They just don't believe in the bodily resurrection.  When I asked jw 'a' why Jesus would go out of His way to ask if a spirit has flesh and bones?  Jw 'a' couldn't recall Jesus ever saying that. When I sent him the verse on that his memory came back to him and he said " oh I thought you were talking about a different time after His resurrection". Funny he also didn't remember any time Jesus saying "in my name" either. At least this time he conceded that he read it ,but just forgot."

So, what DO your JW co-workers think happened to Jesus' body?  I mean, if they don't believe it was raised, they have to explain it somehow.  Or, have they just not gone that far in their thinking?

The typical JW answer to that, is that it was "dissolved", or "disintegrated"....but good luck ever getting THAT Scripture.  You would think that on something so important as Jesus' resurrection, the Scripture might just address that, at least once.  Oh wait....it does.  It says His body was risen.  Just like the angel pointed out in Matthew 28:5-6....the angel knew they had come to see a body, and he said "He is not here, FOR HE IS RISEN"  Notice the word "for"....It is giving the reason WHY He was not there, you know, the BODY they came to see.  It wasn't there, because He was risen.

Not one word about any "dissolving" taking place.

And really, how hard is the phrase...."a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see me have" , to understand?  Why argue with Jesus about His own body, for goodness sake??

As for the conventions, I was not aware that they were "required" to go, with the threat of disciplinary action.  I know it is strongly suggested, and a person not going would be viewed as spiritually "weak", unless they had a very good reason.  But as for whether its a disciplinary offense, I have not heard that, so I can't verify it.  I can find out, though.

It could have something to do with the Russian language, thing.  Because I don't remember my mom EVER going to NY for a convention.  The furthest away from home that I ever went to one, was in Atlanta.  My cousin and her husband, attended some sort of international convention in Conyers, GA here just a few months back.  But I'm not aware of them being required to go to NY.

Sorry I couldn't provide more insight into that one.  

Anyway, thanks for writing, Kevin.  Its always great to hear from you, and receive your words of encouragement.  

And hey, I fully understand about typing from a phone.  If there's one thing I hate to do, it is that.  I am simply not good at it, and I have the "swipe" feature that often changes my words into something I didn't want....lol.

Anyway, take care, and God bless.


Derrick  

Jehovah`s Witness

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Derrick Holland

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I was raised in the religion known as Jehovah`s Witnesses for 13 years. Since becoming a born-again Christian, I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history. I can answer questions about their doctrines from the perspective of Biblical Christianity. To be clear: Jehovahs Witnesses is the religion of my upbringing, though I myself was never baptized into the religion, nor have I ever been considered as a Jehovahs Witness.

Experience

29 years of Biblical research into the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, and how they differ from the teachings of the Watchtower.

Organizations
I would advise each questioner to this forum, to carefully READ the profiles of the various volunteers. There are several such as myself, who are not practicing JWs, but will provide you with an accurate and honest answer, regarding JW teaching. If we don't know the answer, we will try to research and get it for you. There are also some excellent practicing JWs here, who also endeavor to give you a factual and honest answer, based on their point of view. I believe by getting both points of view, the questioner can weigh the evidence for themselves, and make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are also 3 here who claim to be JWs, but do NOT give honest, or well-researched answers. They will tell you only what they want you to believe, and they often hide facts about the history of their religion, as well as print untruths about other people's beliefs. This is done in an attempt to deceive the unsuspecting reader. It can be easily seen who these 3 are, simply by reading the public posts and "answers" which they write. Their posts will normally be filled with personal attacks, and if you question them about some teaching or aspect of the Watchtower that makes them uncomfortable, they will often reject your question, question your motives for asking it, tell you that you have been reading "apostate" sites, or turn the conversation into an attack on another expert. These ones are better avoided, as there is nothing to be gained by way of positive discussion, as they are not interested in intelligent conversation, or honest dialogue. If after reading the forum, you still have any questions as to who they are, just ask me, and I will be happy to tell you. And I can also provide documentation of their willful dishonesty. One thing is for certain...in a forum where people from both sides claim to be "Christians", there should never be any willful lying. Such ones only create a distraction in the forum, and provide nothing of any real value.

Education/Credentials
High School, some college. Studies of God's Word, the Bible, and how it compares to JW theology. I have found my own personal study and experiences to be far more valuable than any formal education or training. The Bible message is clear...Salvation is ONLY through and by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and no religious organization has a thing to do with it. While attendance at a Bible-preaching, Bible-believing church is a must for spiritual growth and fellowship, no church can grant salvation to its members. Nor is joining a particular group a prerequisite for being saved.

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