Jehovah`s Witness/recent response to Derrick Holland
QUESTION: Hello Sister T.
In your recent response to Derrick Holland you said "And since you insist on misrepresenting JW beliefs...". Could you please list a few of the beliefs that he has misrepresented. I have not read all posts so may have missed it.
ANSWER: Hello Phillip,
Not sure why you made this private. But there are just too many to list, but I'll put a few things.
One is what I said in that message, that he leads people to believe that we teach that salvation is through an organization, if you read his profile under Education and Credentials, you see him mention it. And he's said it many times.
True JW's do not believe that, now that's an outright lie, my point is if a person claims to be a JW Expert and researched extensively, as he claims, our beliefs especially our doctrines then he knows that we do not believe that, yet he falsely keeps saying and implying that we do.
My point is this, if you don't agree with our beliefs then fine, no one says anyone has to believe what we believe, but give the complete truth about what we believe, not lies, half truths or misleading comments to imply things. Why stoop to trickery and twisting of words, lies, and misrepresenting what our beliefs are unless you are here for sinister reasons.
Another example: http://en.allexperts.com/q/Jehovah-s-Witness-1617/Jehovah-name.htm
DH: "There are literally thousands of problems with the JW's New World Translation. As for the name Jehovah, it inserts this name 237 times in the New Testament, where NO GREEK MANUSCRIPT on the face of the earth uses this name in the New Testament. The word is ALWAYS "kyrios", which means Lord. When it suits their convenience to translate it "Lord", they do so. When they need it say "Jehovah" to prove a doctrinal point, their NWT translates it as "Jehovah".
This is not true. Just because he doesn't know of any place where Jehovah is in the Greek Scriptures doesn't mean it's so. In fact there has been found fragments with God's name in the Greek scriptures, but written in Hebrew. Yet he insists there's none no where on earth. If he is a JW Expert he should know this, yet he says the above. Now the first half of what he said is his opinion, yet he states his opinions as facts many times over, they are not facts, but merely his opinions. And being that he's claiming to be a "JW Expert" then it's wrong for him to say this as if it's a fact. But this second half,
DH: "When it suits their convenience to translate it "Lord", they do so. When they need it say "Jehovah" to prove a doctrinal point, their NWT translates it as "Jehovah"."
This is a lie.
DH: "Also, another common trap regarding this issue, is that they will tell you that you must use the name Jehovah when you pray, or God does not hear you."
This is a misrepresentation because first of all the Bible is the one who emphasizes the use of Jehovah's name, and prayer is directed to Jehovah only, anyone who does research can learn that many Bible translations have removed God's name and replaced it with a title, lord. And common sense let's people know that if you are quoting someone then you don't replace certain words of that quote.
Even DH himself gets highly upset when people paraphrase what he says, he likes seeing the exact quote. Yet when the Hebrew scriptures is quoted in the Greek scriptures where Jehovah's name is in the Hebrew one, and it is not used in the Greek, even though it's a direct quote. Derrick is fine with this tampering with scripture and fine with translators who remove the name Jehovah and replace it with lord. He wants to be quoted exactly, but he doesn't want the Bible to be quoted exactly! That's double standards.
When Jesus said many times, "it is written" he is quoting from the Hebrew scriptures because the Greek had not been written yet.
For Example: Matt 4:4 "But he answered: “It is written: ‘Man must live, not on bread alone, but on every word that comes from Jehovah’s mouth.’”
Is a direct quote from:
Deut. 8:3 "....in order to make you know that man does not live by bread alone but man lives by every expression from Jehovah’s mouth."
Matt 4:7 "Jesus said to him: “Again it is written: ‘You must not put Jehovah your God to the test.’”
Is a direct quote from:
Deut. 6:16 "“You must not put Jehovah your God to the test the way you put him to the test at Mas′sah"
Mark 12:29,30 "Jesus answered: “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah, 30 and you must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind and with your whole strength.’"
Is a direct quote from:
Deut. 6:4 "“Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. 5 You must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength"
Now in Hebrew scriptures Jehovah's name is used, but when these scriptures are quoted in the Greek scriptures people take it upon themselves to remove Jehovah and insert lord (Kyrios)!
So not quoting someone exactly is wrong for anyone to do according to DH unless it's regarding the name Jehovah in the Bible Greek scriptures.
DH says that we tell people this: "you must use the name Jehovah when you pray, or God does not hear you."
The problem with this is that there are many people in this world who do not know that God even has a name or what God's name is in order to use his name in prayer, they may just pray sincerely to God wanting to learn about him and the truth about him. And to say that we say that God does not hear them is not true.
In fact, in the Bible, the Israelites who used Jehovah's name were told at one time that their prayers would not be heard because of their actions against Jehovah.(Isaiah 1:15) So no real JW would tell someone that.
We will let people know what God's name is in English or whatever language they speak, and the importance of using God's name, why? Because it's his name and he is God. (Joel 2:32; Acts 2:21; Romans 10:13).
The exact pronouncement has been lost, that's true. But it does not nullify it, just the same as Jesus' name is not pronounced exactly as it should be. I see no one having a problem with that or saying it shouldn't be used or it should be removed from the Bible because people aren't pronouncing it exactly as it should be.
The Bible even lists names of false gods in the Bible, (1 Chron. 10:10; Acts 14:11-13; Acts 19:34) yet when it comes to his personal name, Jehovah, people have a problem with it. (Ps. 83:18; Ex. 3:15)
JW's do not believe that Jesus is Jehovah or that Jesus is Almighty God, as that is not what the Bible says or teaches. In order to try and prove us wrong, people have to make up reasons why Jehovah should not be used, because if they agreed with the entire Bible rather than picking and choosing what they will agree with, then they'd have to agree with us, because we adhere to the entire Bible. Regardless of what people say.
Again DH cleverly takes things out of context and twist them around to deliberately misrepresent and lie about what we believe. And it's ok with people who are against us. But if you claim to be a JW Expert then it's not ok for anyone who is about truth and right.
You can read these where others are pointing out how DH is misrepresenting what we believe.
Have a good day,
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Hello again.
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I am not sure why it was private that was not my intent. Please make public along with this follow up.
It seems, given his recent apology, that Derrick may be willing to retract if not at least explain his statements when showed where he is or may be in error. In this way readers should be able to come away with a better understanding.
Thanks again for your time and effort.
I made this public as well as you requested, however, DH, will not apologize about his misrepresentations of JW beliefs. He stated so himself, it's very sad how he feels justified by forcing his beliefs in this forum.
Again, his beliefs are not our beliefs and he is welcome to believe whatever he wants to believe, he is welcome to interpret the Bible the way he sees fit, as he does. But the fact that he is here as a JW Expert forcing his beliefs on others and at the same time claiming to know our beliefs and then lie on us has been established many times, so no amount of explaining away or taking out of context what we say will hold any water. He's been caught right out!! He can deny and wiggle around it and do all kinds of things, the fact is, he's wrong on a lot of different levels. He's wrong for just being here. Who made DH the judge over what we believe? The haughtiness of his rants prove he's consumed with hatred for us. The more he types the more he digs himself into a hole. He's consumed by hatred, otherwise he would not be here. He'd be on the forum that is for his belief, and can you believe that he's not even an expert over there? He tries to say differently and expect the readers to be ignorant or gullible of his true intentions for being here.
The thing is that anyone who is apart of a religion believes that their religion is the true one, we as JW's believe that ours is the true one. So most of his remarks are extremely silly, since this is a forum for questions to JW's. If we didn't feel that our religion was the true one, then we wouldn't be apart of it. That's common sense right there.
We as JW's do not believe that our salvation comes through an organization or that we can earn salvation through an organization, no matter how many different ways DH rewords things. But since we believe that our organization is the only true religion, then of course we will say that it's important to belong to our organization. Just as the Bible shows that people belonged to "The Way" (Acts 9:2) What DH does is diabolical to people who take things out of context and then add their own spin to it to make it seem one way when it's really not that way. It's called distortion, trickery with words. It's just evil intent and only works on people who don't know any better.
Our publications speak about the need to be JW's....as the only true religion who is worshipping Jehovah acceptably today. DH doesn't not worship Jehovah. He worships another Jehovah who is now Jesus. As he said Jehovah=Jesus. So we don't even worship the same God. So everything that he says, just really means nothing. No one has to agree with what we believe, but to lie on us is a different story! Who is he to say what we believe and don't believe because he chooses to take things out of context and insist his opinions are facts. Most of his rants and raves are opinions of a hate filled individual who is here for evil reasons. To Misrepresent , mislead, misguide, and lie about Jehovah's Witnesses. He can't handle being called out on his deception. He goes all to pieces.
No where does our organization say it's the mediator between God and men as DH claims. The Bible shows that Jesus is Mediator between God and men. Moses was the mediator between God and the Israelites (Gal 3:19) and the scriptures that show that if a person wanted to worship Jehovah the God of the Jews, they had to convert and be a part of them and the males had to get circumcised, live the way the Jews lived etc. But the Jews knew that Jehovah was their salvation, not Moses, but Moses was the one who Jehovah used. Otherwise there would be nothing in the Bible about Jewish Proselytes. If anyone wanted to worship the God of the Jews, then they had to join with the Jews. It was that plain and simple, he just chooses to deny scripture. That's why we see this scripture here where God told Moses:
Exodus 12:47-49 "All the assembly of Israel are to celebrate it. 48 If a foreigner resides with you and he wants to celebrate the Passover to Jehovah, every male of his must be circumcised. Then he may come near to celebrate it, and he will become like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised man may eat of it. 49 One law will apply for the native and for the foreigner who is residing among you.”
If a person wanted to be included with the Jews in their worship to Jehovah they had to join in with the Jews....but according to DH, this actually means that they are saying Moses is their salvation because Moses is the one who gave the Jews this information. See this is very flawed and narrow-minded thinking.
This is also evident by the Bible's account of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram. They talked against Moses, they wanted to serve Jehovah their own way, a part from what Moses was telling them. See if DH would have lived during this time, his reasonings state that he would have been among the ones who were with Korah, Dathan, and Abiram. As they felt the same way as DH feels about us and has a distorted view.
The Bible shows that those 3 rebels were not in the right....just the same as DH is not in the right with his twists of things.
Numbers 16:3 "So they gathered together against Moses and Aaron and said to them: “We have had enough of you! The whole assembly is holy, all of them, and Jehovah is in their midst. Why, then, should you exalt yourselves above the congregation of Jehovah?”"
This is what DH says of our organization, yet, our organization has never claimed to be the means by which we gain salvation or never said we have to earn it by works. Just as Moses wasn't the means by which the Jews gained freedom from Egypt!
Numbers 16:12,13, "Moses later sent for Da′than and A·bi′ram the sons of E·li′ab, but they said: “We are not going to come! 13 Is it so little a thing that you have brought us up out of a land flowing with milk and honey to put us to death in the wilderness? Now do you also want to make yourself an absolute ruler over us?"
Was Moses trying to be the absolute ruler over the Jews? No! But yet, this is what these rebels lied on Moses about. Just like DH lies on us about.
How did Jehovah react to this? Those rebels and all who supported them were killed by Jehovah!! If those rebels had not had that distorted view of Moses, this would never have happened. DH has the same distorted view of us!
Numbers 16:32,35 "And the earth opened and swallowed them up, along with their households and everyone who belonged to Kor′ah and all their goods. 35 Then a fire came out from Jehovah and consumed the 250 men offering the incense."
Just like he went on and on about he never said that JW's believe that salvation is through an organization, not only does he say it, he implies it and worst yet, he claims we believe the organization is the mediator of salvation and that we believe salvation must be earned, when we believe that Jesus is the mediator between God and men and that salvation cannot be earned. But again, an outright lie from DH! Here's just two of numerous distortions and misrepresentation of our beliefs that DH insists that he doesn't do or hasn't said this, he's a liar and he does say it and keeps saying it, and when it's pointed out, he denies that he says it and then tries to reword it, like that really makes a difference, this shows how deceitful he really is, and how he tries to word things cleverly:
DH: "Answer....Yes, that is true. A JW believes he MUST join, and remain faithful to the Watchtower Organization to be saved. One who leaves this Organization is referred to as an "apostate", regardless of whether or not the person still obeys the Bible, or loves Jesus Christ. If they leave the Organization, they are viewed as having "apostasized" from God and Christ.
And as for whether the look to God or Jesus for salvation, I refer back to my earlier comments. They may profess to do this, but again, the believe that God and Jesus ONLY operate through the Organization.
So, this enables the JW to use "Christian" vocabulary when speaking with outsiders. They will say..."Of course we trust in God, and believe in Jesus as our Saviour." What they don't tell you immediately, is that this is ONLY possible through the Watchtower Society. And this, in effect, makes the Society the mediator of salvation, and not Jesus Christ."
DH: This is because they are a "salvation-by-works" religion, and anytime a person believes that they must perform works to be saved, it automatically causes them to lack assurance of salvation."
The Bible mentions many times about the Law of Moses....(2 Chron. 30:16) well was it really Moses' law? Or did the people use their brains and know that it was Jehovah's laws?
It's funny how DH who has never been a JW thinks he can tell someone who is one what they believe. He wastes his time having tantrums and makes himself into one big joke by thinking his disrespect is honorable and his evil intent is acceptable, it's only acceptable to ones who are also against JW's the way he is. The difference is I'm not over in a Baptist forum telling people there that their beliefs are false, but he is the epitome of disrespect for even signing up as a JW Expert when he never had any intentions of telling the truth about our beliefs to begin with and is why he, being a born again baptist, is here to begin with. Just like Satan lies on Jehovah constantly, knowing good and well that he's lying. Satan actually thinks he will prevail. But just like Satan won't prevail, his offspring will not either.
I've shown the pretender out for what he truly is and now I'm done for awhile. I'm sure he'll have another tantrum real soon.