Jehovah`s Witness/1874 - Exposure of False Witnesses

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Question
Hello Brother Derrick, it has been a long time. I pray that you and your family are well.

I briefly read through some of the nonsense that has been going on concerning this date; was floored by the letter of "Jeff". However, it seems to me that if a reader were paying close attention, they will see that the "imposter" and 'false witnesses" are those on the forum denying and twisting core doctrines of the JW faith while claiming to be JW's. Why would one deny 1874? It is clearly stated in all the older texts. The belief is that the time of the end began in 1799, Christs Presence began in 1874, His Heavenly rule in 1914. End of Story!

These were the teachings of Russell to the Bible Students. Where is the lie? The conspiracy? The average JW would not engage in dispute of the dates, but would expound on them for the person interested. But for a JW to say the date was never taught, that brings about an interesting question: are you really a JW? In order to accept 1914, you have to accept all the dates and doctrines that get you to that date. So if 1874 is a lie or was never taught, is 1914 also a lie and should be dropped from teaching? If 1914 is not a lie and should be taught, then how could 1874 be a lie or never taught? Without 1874 you cant get to 1914. Hmmm!

I was raised in a Witness home. I know the dates inside and out. It was all that was talked about. The Witnesses are very thorough when it comes to doctrine and having the members understand.

Under Rutherford, a lot of Russell's teachings were disgarded or revised such as 1914.

I may have jumped in late, but what got my goat more was that others were brought into this ( real JWS) and were attacked for correcting the errors(falsehoods).

I pray one day your character will stop being attacked on here instead of sticking to the issues being raised.It has gotten so ridiculous that I had to stop reading the boards for a long while.

So if you allow me to say this to the readers: A REAL JEHOVAH'S WITNESS IS A CHRISTIAN. They have different doctrines and beliefs, however they DO BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST.

The ones on this side of the board that are not JW's like Derrick, are considered experts on the religion because of the in depth knowledge of or with the doctrines. Look up the word expert and it will explain all.

Opposers: I am not a Jehovahs Witness and not an opposer of the religion. I Oppose some of the doctrines because of the errors or what is perceived as erroneous.

Imposter: There are no imposters if they claim not to be a JW. The only imposter would be those claiming to be JWS, but denying JW doctrine or behaving themselves in a way that brings shame on the religion.

Apostate: We are all in some kind of way APOSTATES(look up the word) We have all left something for something else. Can one be a 'religious apostate" ? Sure, but it doesnt necessarily mean its a bad thing. If the person finds a truth, and it is not accepted by the religion he belongs too, or the religion turns their back on him for it, he should leave. PERIOD. You hear the term from JWS because they say people left the truth for a lie. This is a subjective view and should only be discussed or debated by those with the knowledge of the doctrines. Thats why there are "experts'.

Good Bless and Keep You

Rev. Darryl Murphy

Answer
Good evening, Brother Murphy.  Yes, we are well, and I pray you and your family are, also.

As always, you have made many excellent points in your writing.  As its late and I want this to post tomorrow, I will make my response short, but do want to get one sent.  There really isn't much for me to add to what you have said, because you covered it quite well.  I will simply touch on a couple of things.

YOU:  "I briefly read through some of the nonsense that has been going on concerning this date; was floored by the letter of "Jeff".

Yes, this "Jeff" honestly did one of the most wicked and unchristian acts I have seen on this board....even rivaling some of Rando's atrocities.  I am referring to when he decided it was a good idea, to write to Abdijah and Brenton, and try to get them involved in the mudslinging, and implying they were "compromisers" or something, just because they prefer to stay out of it.

I will say this....This simple-minded JW, if he had any sense, would be HAPPY that there are JW experts like Brenton and Abdijah on here.  If they were all like Eddie and Rando, then this religion would be the laughing-stock of Allexperts.  Those few are some of the only REAL CREDITS to this religion, that exist in this forum.  Otherwise, the readers would be fed the lies, slanders, and distortions of Eddie and Rando.  

But to purposely target 2 men who are here simply to answer questions about their religion, and do not wish to be involved in hate-filled lying and mudslinging, was about as cowardly and wicked an act as I can think of.  And he had the nerve to write me, and call me a coward, and then stoop to something like that.

Is he not aware that one of the things Jehovah HATES, is "one that sows discord among brethren"?  How did he, in any way, think he was doing something "Christian", by trying to drag them in the debacle, when they simply want to peacefully answer questions.  He should apologize to them.


YOU:  "However, it seems to me that if a reader were paying close attention, they will see that the "imposter" and 'false witnesses" are those on the forum denying and twisting core doctrines of the JW faith while claiming to be JW's. Why would one deny 1874? It is clearly stated in all the older texts. The belief is that the time of the end began in 1799, Christs Presence began in 1874, His Heavenly rule in 1914. End of Story!"

EXACTLY!  Funny thing is, Eddie G has now been forced to come clean and admit that they DID in fact, teach this.  Did you see his post regarding 1874?  That is one reason I have kept the heat on him.  He didn't want to go against his hero, Rando, and admit that they did teach that, because Rando had come out and claimed it was a "LIE".  But when Kevin asked Eddie point blank about all the evidence, Eddie had no choice....Either tell the truth for a change, or reject the question, and have it sent to me.  And that had already happened to Eddie one recently.  You know that had to be embarrassing.

But Brother Murphy, we have now seen that Rando simply does not have any morality or character about himself.  He will lie, and when caught, will say nothing.  Just change the subject, and start lashing out at the person who exposed him. That has always been what he does.  He is simply not an honest man.  

You are correct...Why deny what is obviously factual?  He can whine all he wants to, but yes, they DID teach it.  Did you see how he tried to CHANGE what I had said?  I said the WT had originally taught that 1874 was the year Jesus "came", and he twisted that and claimed I said they were predicting it BEFORE 1874.  

Just anything to lie, twist, and distort.  

But you hit on something VERY key there....Since they are the ones calling non-Witnesses "impostors", they have proven themselves, to be the real "impostors".  You hit it on the head....The ones LYING and TWISTING JW doctrine, are the true "impostors".  And that would be Rando, most notably, followed not far behind, by Eddie.

And they call us "impostors"?  You brought out an excellent point on that one.


YOU:  "Where is the lie? The conspiracy? The average JW would not engage in dispute of the dates, but would expound on them for the person interested. But for a JW to say the date was never taught, that brings about an interesting question: are you really a JW? In order to accept 1914, you have to accept all the dates and doctrines that get you to that date. So if 1874 is a lie or was never taught, is 1914 also a lie and should be dropped from teaching? If 1914 is not a lie and should be taught, then how could 1874 be a lie or never taught? Without 1874 you cant get to 1914. Hmmm!"

Again, right on the money.  But Mr. Murphy, Rando and Eddie are not your "average JW".  They are in a class all by themselves.  But you're correct....By their constant distortions and twisting of nearly everything they get their hands on, one only has to question THEIR genuineness, as members of the JW religion.

You're in a great position here, Brother Murphy.  Normally, Rando's always-predictable course of action whenever someone like you writes to expose something false he said, is to attack them personally, and start ranting about the Trinity.  Rando's "default" topic when embarrassed, is the Trinity.  But as you are non-Trinitarian, this effectively removes his favorite strategy from him.  So, his reaction to this, should be interesting.  

But at any rate, you do bring up an excellent point.  Is Rando willing to throw out 1914, by denying that the WT ever taught anything about 1874?  

One thing for certain....Rando displayed his extreme ignorance of the history of his own religion, and also extreme dishonesty, by not admitting he got it wrong.  Its sad what PRIDE will do to a person.


YOU:  "Under Rutherford, a lot of Russell's teachings were discarded or revised such as 1914."

This is true.  Once Rutherford took over (after a nasty struggle for power), he gradually began to do away with Russell's teachings.  Like the date of 1874, the teachings on the Pyramid, etc, and the identity of the Slave, which still continues to evolve.  Even what is today taught about 1914, is NOT what Russell taught about it.  This point cannot be emphasized enough.


YOU:  "I may have jumped in late, but what got my goat more was that others were brought into this ( real JWS) and were attacked for correcting the errors(falsehoods)."

Yeah, you and me both.  Again, what this "Jeff" character did, was beyond deplorable.  Peaceful Witnesses who actually CARE about the public image their religion is given, are attacked and challenged, when they don't join in with the lies.  

I think "Jeff"'s standing as a JW, should definitely be called into question.  He should humble himself, and apologize to his brothers, if he indeed is a real JW.  And he should stop support lies.  What kind of "Christian" supports lies, or those who promote them?


YOU:  "The ones on this side of the board that are not JW's like Derrick, are considered experts on the religion because of the in depth knowledge of or with the doctrines. Look up the word expert and it will explain all."

Well said, Sir.  This is exactly what is stated in the guidelines that Allexperts themselves, have given.  Its amazing to me that these few JWs, have decided that their opinion of what this board is for, somehow trumps what the creators/moderators of it, have decided its for.  They are free to start their own, but where they got the idea they could take over, and run this one, is truly something that I find humorous.  

But I think we have seen what their real issue is with non-Witnesses being here.  Such as this 1874 topic....Without us here, they could mislead unsuspecting questioners.  We have just seen Rando try to do that very thing, with NO apology, and no remorse.  But our being here, is sort of a "fact check" system, that keeps them in line.  And that's how it should be.  If there weren't non-JWs here with in depth knowledge of the religion, they could say whatever they wanted to, to questioners who have genuine inquiries.  They could distort the doctrines of Christianity, as well as lie and mislead about their OWN history.  

But its not going to happen, and that is what has them all bent out of shape.

I remember Rando earlier this year, after being appealed to by Mr. Hepburn to act like a Christian, making the statement that he would like to be the ONLY JW here.  Basically, "everyone else can leave...I'll handle it" .  Can you imagine the chaos that would result, if that were the case?  He would single-handedly, turn more people AWAY from the religion, than 15 of me on here, would ever do.  They had better hope that Rando never becomes the lone representative of JWs on here....That would be disastrous for them.


YOU:  "Imposter: There are no imposters if they claim not to be a JW. The only imposter would be those claiming to be JWS, but denying JW doctrine or behaving themselves in a way that brings shame on the religion."

Yeah, that is another excellent point.  An "impostor", is someone pretending to be what they're not.  Awhile back, Rando blatantly contradicted himself...in the same week.  One day, he claims that I was trying to convince people I was a JW, and a few days later, he stated that my profile says I am NOT a JW.  When a person is a liar, they need to have a good memory.  

But you're correct...As far as I can tell, the non-JWs here are pretty up front about that.  I know I am.  Anyone reading our profile, can see clearly that we are not practicing JWs.  

So, what Sister T, Eddie, and Rando need to figure out, is this.....If a person reads our profile and knows going in, that we are not practicing JWs, but wants to ask us a question anyway, then that is NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS....Period!  

As "Danny Boy" so eloquently pointed out....The Experts do not "dictate" whom the questioner can write.  Therefore, they need to learn that fact, and stop trying to do just that.  Its none of their business.  If they read a post they want to print a response/rebuttal to, they are free to do that.  But when they go to such lengths to lie and discredit someone, its because they have something to hide, and something they don't want the readers to know.

Like 1874....Its as you said, why not just admit it and say that they got it wrong, but got it straightened out?  Why lie, and deny it ever happened?  Especially when its so easy to prove it did.


Well, I covered much of what you wrote, but not everything.  As usual, you made excellent points, and you hit the nail on the head.  Thank you for writing, and may God bless you and yours.


Derrick  

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Derrick Holland

Expertise

I was raised in the religion known as Jehovah`s Witnesses for 13 years. Since becoming a born-again Christian, I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history. I can answer questions about their doctrines from the perspective of Biblical Christianity. To be clear: Jehovahs Witnesses is the religion of my upbringing, though I myself was never baptized into the religion, nor have I ever been considered as a Jehovahs Witness.

Experience

29 years of Biblical research into the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, and how they differ from the teachings of the Watchtower.

Organizations
I would advise each questioner to this forum, to carefully READ the profiles of the various volunteers. There are several such as myself, who are not practicing JWs, but will provide you with an accurate and honest answer, regarding JW teaching. If we don't know the answer, we will try to research and get it for you. There are also some excellent practicing JWs here, who also endeavor to give you a factual and honest answer, based on their point of view. I believe by getting both points of view, the questioner can weigh the evidence for themselves, and make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are also 3 here who claim to be JWs, but do NOT give honest, or well-researched answers. They will tell you only what they want you to believe, and they often hide facts about the history of their religion, as well as print untruths about other people's beliefs. This is done in an attempt to deceive the unsuspecting reader. It can be easily seen who these 3 are, simply by reading the public posts and "answers" which they write. Their posts will normally be filled with personal attacks, and if you question them about some teaching or aspect of the Watchtower that makes them uncomfortable, they will often reject your question, question your motives for asking it, tell you that you have been reading "apostate" sites, or turn the conversation into an attack on another expert. These ones are better avoided, as there is nothing to be gained by way of positive discussion, as they are not interested in intelligent conversation, or honest dialogue. If after reading the forum, you still have any questions as to who they are, just ask me, and I will be happy to tell you. And I can also provide documentation of their willful dishonesty. One thing is for certain...in a forum where people from both sides claim to be "Christians", there should never be any willful lying. Such ones only create a distraction in the forum, and provide nothing of any real value.

Education/Credentials
High School, some college. Studies of God's Word, the Bible, and how it compares to JW theology. I have found my own personal study and experiences to be far more valuable than any formal education or training. The Bible message is clear...Salvation is ONLY through and by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and no religious organization has a thing to do with it. While attendance at a Bible-preaching, Bible-believing church is a must for spiritual growth and fellowship, no church can grant salvation to its members. Nor is joining a particular group a prerequisite for being saved.

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