Jehovah`s Witness/You people are a joke. Really?

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QUESTION: I want to say that I read this board regularly and I have seen the constant accusations for a long time. I think you people are the furthest thing from being true followers of Jesus because Jesus never asked you to lie about any other person. I see you all making many accusations but that is it. Any person can see what was said by Holland and Richard and see that you guys are doing nothing but twisting what they say. Then you claim they are lying about you. You people are a joke. I will pray for your salvation and that you will see what a terrible example you are for your religon. Its good for readers like us to see both sides and I really think that is what you all dont want to happen.

ANSWER: My advice Scott, stay away from this board. Go here instead JW.org or you'll just get carried away by smooth double talk by those who opposed us.

But since you're telling us that "we're a joke" and that we're "twisting" Mr. Holland's or Richard's words, then can you please explain something to me that's very puzzling about Mr. Holland?

What is the answer to these simple questions - Is Derrick Holland arguing with himself when he said:

"God wants ALL men to be saved...not just some."

If no, who said, "...not just some" then?

To whom is the statement pertaining to?

Was it pertaining to us, what we teach and what we believe?

If so was he not lying then about us?

If not whose twisting whom here then since we believe and teach that:

"For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)?

Still stand by your claim Scott?

Joke asside.


http://www.allexperts.com/user.cgi?m=6&catID=1617&expID=126114&qID=5074471










---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Are you kidding? Your asking me to answer for Mr. Holland? I am sure he is capable of answering for himself. I dont think your question who is he arguing with even makes any sense to begin with. Like I said I read this board often and he explained what he was arguing with, and that is your belief that Jesus isnt mediator for everyone and everyone needs a mediator.  Yes I said you people are a joke but dont take it personal, because its not just you. I was going to send this to Sis T and DW also but she is vacationing and he appears to be gone. But Ive seen how you guys post that he says stuff he never once said and then you just keep saying it over and over like that will make it true or something.  And thanks for the advice but I didnt come here for advice. I wrote to let you people know that youre a joke and that its plain you cant refute what these guys do say so you have to twist what they say. You only hurt your religons image in the process. Yes I still stand by that. Have a nice day and think about it.

Answer
Who said what to whom?
Who said what to whom?  
Hi Scott,

You said:

"I dont think your question who is he arguing with even makes any sense to begin with."

Hence, like I said - PUZZLING, because he knows that we believe the Lord Jesus Christ died for mankind - as explained by this often quoted Bible verses:

"For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

So there's no argument there. We all believe this to be the fact.

But why say "God wants ALL men to be saved...not just some" then?

In other words, who is Mr. Holland trying to convinced that "God wants ALL men to be saved...not just some"? Was he trying to convinced you or misled you? I don't know.

So to me, that is puzzling.

Two possible reasons why he said it in my opinion.

1. He was intentionally lying about us. That we believe only "...just some" are saved by God - the 144,000 or only JW's. Which in both cases is not true since we also believe that millions and millions will come back to life as "...there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." (Acts 24:15). Of which we believe many of these (unrighteous) resurrected ones will include those who have not even heard of Jesus or seen a Bible (like the people who died in communist lands - like China). But in the resurrection they will be given a chance to put faith on Jesus' ransom sacrifice.

In addition we also believe Matthew 24:13.

"But the one who has endured to the end will be saved." (Matthew 24:13)


So to me, his statement doesn't make sense.

Or:

2. He simply misspoke.

But if you say that "he was arguing with, ...[y]our belief that Jesus isnt mediator for everyone and everyone needs a mediator". It still doesn't make sense. As I already said, since he is aware that we believe Jesus is the savior for mankind, and that Jesus IS ABLE and CAPABLE of saving mankind in his God given role as a SAVIOR, why the need for a "mediator between God and men"? Why change the Scripture to say "mediator between God and ALL men", when Paul was specifically talking about "men" (a group of men) not "ALL men" - mankind?

Again, two possible reasons why he said it in my opinion.


1. He intentionally misstated what we believe.
2. He misspoke.

But now back to you Scott. As a long time reader here:

Can Jesus Christ's fulfill his God GIVEN role as a savior - the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world? Or does he need to become a mediator too?

In other words, WITHOUT CHANGING or twisting anything, are the following verses not valid since it describes Jesus as a savior from God and not a "mediator between God and men" (1 Tim 2:5)?

"For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

"See, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!" (John 1:29)

"Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved."" (Acts 4:12)


"to the only God our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, might, and authority for all past eternity and now and into all eternity. Amen." (Jude 25)

So, can Jesus fulfill his God given role as a savior in order to save mankind?

Or does he still need to take on another role as a "mediator between God and men" in addition to his being a savior for mankind from God?

If so, would you say then that God made mistake if you believe the later?

I hope not because the facts are staring you right in eye. Of course Jesus Christ IS ABLE and CAPABLE of fulfilling his role as a savior from God without becoming a "mediator between God and men."

So what say you great Scott?

Whose the joker?




=========
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P.S.

If you haven't read what I said about Jesus being a "mediator between God and men", I'll re-post it here for you.

>>Side note:

A simple way to explain mankind's salvation through Jesus Christ is this:

Jesus IS the savior of mankind by virtue of his ransom sacrifice.

The scripture says:

"For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

By means of his ransom sacrifice, through his shed blood we became reconciled to God.

The scripture says:

"For if when we were enemies we became reconciled to God through the death of his Son, how much more we will be saved by his life, now that we have become reconciled." (Romans 5:10)

Thus as a ransomer, Jesus became the savior and reconciled everyone to God through faith on his shed blood.

Nothing in the Bible that says, Jesus must become a "Mediator for ALL men" in order to save everyone. As a savior, a ransomer and a reconciler - he fulfilled that vital role.

And like I said, Jesus' role as a Mediator "between God and men" (1 Tim 2:5) is for the sole purpose of a COVENANT or an agreement between him and his brothers -  the 144,000 anointed ones.

The scripture says:

"..."Do not let your hearts be troubled. Exercise faith in God; exercise faith also in me. 2 In the house of my Father are many dwelling places. Otherwise, I would have told you, for I am going my way to prepare a place for you. 3 Also, if I go my way and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will receive you home to myself, so that where I am you also may be. 4 And where I am going, you know the way."" (John 14:1-4)

""Have no fear, little flock, for your Father has approved of giving you the Kingdom." (Luke 12:32)

"But now Jesus has obtained a more excellent ministry because he is also the mediator of a correspondingly better covenant, which has been legally established on better promises." (Hebrews 8:6)

"and Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and the sprinkled blood, which speaks in a better way than Abel's blood." (Hebrews 12:24)

"But you are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you should declare abroad the excellencies” of the One who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light." (1 Peter 2:9)



"and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth." (Revelation 5:10)


"That is why he is a mediator of a new covenant, in order that because a death has occurred for their release by ransom from the transgressions under the former covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance." (Hebrews 9:15)

These should be more than enough to establish the fact!  

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Jehovah-s-Witness-1617/2014/10/mr-holland-arguing-him  

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