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Jehovah`s Witness/Some additional notes related to sacrifice

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QUESTION: Thanks for the answers. Some things you say seem correct, for example researching God's mind means we as the creation, have lesser wisdom than Him, otherwise we would know everything.

Of course, when I talked about logic I didnt imply that God is wrong and Im correct, when something seems illogical to me. I simply meant "trying to understand God's mind". I never said that Scriptures have not the logic of God, but that of a "stupid stone age man", I know theres a deep wisdom in religious things, even other religious texts have same sacrifical and other themes, that seem "illogical" to a non religious person.

So I'll continue to make research.

As for Judas and Jews you didnt answer the question. I asked why Jesus says "whoe" to Judas and that "it would be better if he was not born", also why Paul says Jews were blind killing their king.

Why? As you said Jesus' sacrifice gave the only hope for salvation in the mankind. Shouldnt we thank Judas' and Jews' action?

In the gnostic gospel of Judas, Judas is the only one who understands that Jesus must die, whereas the others have no idea.

Lets not forget that Jesus rebuked Peter, when he said "My Lord, this may never happen to you".


I have a second question also. I see that many christians disagree in what Jesus sacrificed. What did he sacrificed? His life, his flesh? And if Ha sacrificed them, why he took them back?

Shouldnt a sacrifice demand that you give something in order to save something else, and never take it back what you give... or not?

Thanks.

ANSWER: Hello, Christaras.  Ok, let me try to touch on the questions you say I missed, as I had a a lot of them to answer.  To be honest, I have said about all on this topic that I know to say.  I actually thought I HAD addressed them, but I will briefly touch on them again.

YOU:  "As for Judas and Jews you didnt answer the question. I asked why Jesus says "whoe" to Judas and that "it would be better if he was not born", also why Paul says Jews were blind killing their king."

Why? As you said Jesus' sacrifice gave the only hope for salvation in the mankind. Shouldnt we thank Judas' and Jews' action?"

Uh, NO we should not "thank Judas and the Jews".  Thank them for what?  Being traitors and lying against the perfect and sinless Son of God?

Yes, it is His death that provides the means of our salvation, but that still doesn't get the ones who betrayed Him, any medals of honor.  

That is about like your marrying the love of your life, and "thanking" her first husband for cheating on her, beating her, and spending all their money on alcohol, and making her life completely miserable, so that you could have her.  Ridiculous!!  Just because something good came from it that benefitted you, that doesn't negate the hurt and pain she had to endure.

The Scripture actually speaks directly to this question, when it shows that the prophecies and purpose of Jesus coming to earth must be fulfilled, but still, the people who caused them to be fulfilled, are still guilty.

Mark 14:21-  "The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born."

Simply put, Sir....It was better FOR JUDAS that He never was born, because he died without God and went to Hell.  Regardless of whatever prophecies he was the instrument of fulfilling, he himself rejected Jesus Christ in the end.

And the Jews actually pronounced a curse on their own people, for crucifying Him.  And this curse has played out down through history.  It is never a good thing, when someone's actions cause others, or themselves, to be eternally lost.

I hope you don't also think the children of Israel should "thank" Pharoah for being so harsh to them.


YOU:  "In the gnostic gospel of Judas, Judas is the only one who understands that Jesus must die, whereas the others have no idea."

"Lets not forget that Jesus rebuked Peter, when he said "My Lord, this may never happen to you"."

Yes, but there is a difference between Peter trying to hinder Jesus' accomplishing of His purpose, and Judas being the instrument of His betrayal.  Jesus said that any who deny Him, them will He also deny (Matthew 10:33).


YOU:  "I have a second question also. I see that many christians disagree in what Jesus sacrificed. What did he sacrificed? His life, his flesh? And if Ha sacrificed them, why he took them back?

Shouldnt a sacrifice demand that you give something in order to save something else, and never take it back what you give... or not?"

Some Scriptures on sacrifice....

Eph. 5:2-  "And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour."

Does this verse mean that, since Jesus sacrifice Himself, that He could not rise from the dead, because this would invalidate the sacrifice?


Hebrew 7:27-  "And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour."


Hebrews 9:26-28-  "For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."

It seems verse 28, is showing that Christ's sacrifice of Himself, and subsequent resurrection, does not invalidate the sacrifice at all.  In fact, it validates it.  Had He NOT have risen from the dead, then the sacrifice would have been of none effect.  It is BECAUSE He offered an acceptable sacrifice to God the Father, that He was given a bodily resurrection.


Hebrews 10:5-12-  "Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;


We also see that His BLOOD, was a sacrifice for sin.....

Matthew 26:28-  "For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins."


Luke 22:20-  "Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you."


John 6:53-54-  "Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you."

Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."


Acts 20:28-  "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."


Rom. 3:25-  "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;"


Romans 5:9-  "Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.


1 Cor. 10:16-  "The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?"


1 Cor. 11:27-  "Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord."


Ephesians 1:7-  "In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;"


Colossians 1:14-  "In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:"


Colossians 1:20-  "And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven."


Hebrews 9:7- "But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:"


Hebrews 9:12-  "Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us."


Hebrews 9:14,22-  "How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"

"And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission."


Hebrews 10:29-  "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission."


Hebrews 13:12,20-  "Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate."

"Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,"


1 Peter 1:18-20-  "Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,"


The truth is, the JW religion has created a false dilemma that doesn't even exist, when they claim that for Jesus to rise bodily, would be taking back the sacrifice.  There is simply nothing in the Scriptures that teach this, and in fact, it is ONLY because of His resurrection, that His sacrifice can profit us.  (1 Corinthians 15:12-19)

There seems to be a notion that if you sacrifice something, then you can never have it again.  This is clearly seen to be ludicrous, in the following illustrations....

1.  In the sport of baseball, we have what is called a "sacrifice bunt" or a "sacrifice fly"....Meaning, that a batter sacrifices HIMSELF at the plate (an intentional "out"), for the purpose of advancing a base runner to the next base, or to even score a runner on 3rd base.  

Now, would the fact of the sacrifice of the batter, negate him being able to come to bat AGAIN, the next time around?  Obviously not.

If he comes up to bat in the 9th inning, you don't hear the fans screaming "Wait a minute!!  You can't bat again, because you sacrificed yourself in the 7th inning!!"


2.  If a man sees a baby crawling out into the middle of a busy street, and runs out there to rescue the baby, but in the process of throwing the baby onto the grass to safety, is hit by a car and killed, it would be said that the man heroically "sacrificed" himself for the baby.  If that man receives a resurrection one day, does this negate the fact that he sacrificed himself?  Obviously not.


I have no idea where this notion got started, that a "sacrifice" automatically means that you can never have it again.  Certainly not the Bible.  This argument was simply a weak objection, to the many Scriptures which clearly show Jesus being raised in a physical body.


2.   



















---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Good answers.  

Did you want to say something more? Your response ends suddenly with a "2."

I also want to ask how do you know that Judas was not saved. We read that Judas regreted, threw the money and felt so guilty that he hang himself. Do you imply that people who commit suicide are lost?

These people may be in such a pressure that they dont have a clear mind then, they feel trapped seeing no exit to their situation. Imagine that you were Judas. How could he continue living if he realized that he betrayed the Lord of the Universe? He was not just a man, he was the Son of God the one whom Judas betrayed.

Thanks.

Answer
No, that was a mistake at the end.  I do not want to say something more, as I have repeatedly said now, I believe we have exhausted this subject.

And no, I did NOT imply that all who commit suicide, go to Hell.  Not sure how you got that, but it doesn't matter.  I said JUDAS went to Hell.

He is called the "son of perdition" who was lost.......

John 17:12-  "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."

And he went "to his own place"....

Acts 1:25-  "That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place."

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Derrick Holland

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I was raised in the religion known as Jehovah`s Witnesses for 13 years. Since becoming a born-again Christian, I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history. I can answer questions about their doctrines from the perspective of Biblical Christianity. To be clear: Jehovahs Witnesses is the religion of my upbringing, though I myself was never baptized into the religion, nor have I ever been considered as a Jehovahs Witness.

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29 years of Biblical research into the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, and how they differ from the teachings of the Watchtower.

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I would advise each questioner to this forum, to carefully READ the profiles of the various volunteers. There are several such as myself, who are not practicing JWs, but will provide you with an accurate and honest answer, regarding JW teaching. If we don't know the answer, we will try to research and get it for you. There are also some excellent practicing JWs here, who also endeavor to give you a factual and honest answer, based on their point of view. I believe by getting both points of view, the questioner can weigh the evidence for themselves, and make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are also 3 here who claim to be JWs, but do NOT give honest, or well-researched answers. They will tell you only what they want you to believe, and they often hide facts about the history of their religion, as well as print untruths about other people's beliefs. This is done in an attempt to deceive the unsuspecting reader. It can be easily seen who these 3 are, simply by reading the public posts and "answers" which they write. Their posts will normally be filled with personal attacks, and if you question them about some teaching or aspect of the Watchtower that makes them uncomfortable, they will often reject your question, question your motives for asking it, tell you that you have been reading "apostate" sites, or turn the conversation into an attack on another expert. These ones are better avoided, as there is nothing to be gained by way of positive discussion, as they are not interested in intelligent conversation, or honest dialogue. If after reading the forum, you still have any questions as to who they are, just ask me, and I will be happy to tell you. And I can also provide documentation of their willful dishonesty. One thing is for certain...in a forum where people from both sides claim to be "Christians", there should never be any willful lying. Such ones only create a distraction in the forum, and provide nothing of any real value.

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High School, some college. Studies of God's Word, the Bible, and how it compares to JW theology. I have found my own personal study and experiences to be far more valuable than any formal education or training. The Bible message is clear...Salvation is ONLY through and by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and no religious organization has a thing to do with it. While attendance at a Bible-preaching, Bible-believing church is a must for spiritual growth and fellowship, no church can grant salvation to its members. Nor is joining a particular group a prerequisite for being saved.

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