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Jehovah`s Witness/DW, DW, DW...Can't You Get Anything Correct?

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Question
Once again, DW has come out of near complete silence, to show that he absolutely cannot even the smallest details correct.  You would think the guy would learn by now.

Answer
DW, why is it that you STILL cannot get anything correct?  I mean literally, ANYTHING.  You complain about my “misrepresentations” of your belief, and then falsely claim you have had to correct me on them.  But isn’t it true that I wrote to you awhile back, regarding some statements you had made to this same effect on a particular answer from me, and asked you to lay out exactly what was wrong in my answer, and you rejected the question and refused to answer?  Isn’t that true, DW?

Also, isn’t it true that you have constantly been asked to post proof of your charges of me “lying” and "misrepresenting", and you have also refused, because you have nothing?  

Furthermore, isn’t it also true that the ONLY time you actually showed where a post of mine gave a somewhat poorly worded explanation of the JW belief on Nebuchadnezzar (I had failed to include one word that would have clarified the belief), that I happily corrected it and added the clarifying word in my very next writing on the subject?  All the while, you and your ilk STILL refuse to set straight the willful and intentional misrepresentations that YOU continue to spew about our beliefs?

So, since you are still whining about me “misrepresenting” your beliefs, I will ask you yet AGAIN, to explain how it is that you can claim that I teach “Jesus is another almighty god” , and that Jesus was resurrected as “a super zombie body swapper” , and whenever someone asks you where these things are taught by me, you cowardly reject their question as “SPAM”?

I mean, really….Do you honestly think I am going to let you come on here and falsely claim I misrepresent your beliefs, without asking you about the proven and documented times that YOU lie about ours?  But you think that’s ok, because you THINK this is a JW forum (which it isn’t), and you can say whatever falsehood you want to?

Bottom line....If there has been a "misrepresentation" of your beliefs by me, then post exactly what it is, and why you believe it is a misrepresentation.  Or better yet, send it to me, and I will happily answer it.  I won't reject it as "SPAM", as you do, when challenged.  And while you're at it, retract your OWN DOCUMENTED misrepresentations of OUR beliefs, and speak out against your fellow dishonest JWs who also continue doing it.

Basically, a call for TRUTH in everything.  Will you do that?  

You have been quiet for a good while now, DW…You should’ve stayed that way, if you can’t tell the truth.

Furthermore, this is the SECOND time here recently, that you have FALSELY stated or implied that WE have started something, that was actually started by your side.  I reference this statement of yours….

“So Derrick and Eddie and Richard and Bro Rando are going back and forth over the trinity. Then Derrick is complaining that Eddie doesn't understand the trinity and misrepresents it. But here's the real point...…

This is a Jehovah's witness forum so who cares about the trinity here?? Why is the trinity even being discussed here??”

And this….

“That's the real issue here. Not the trinity. No one cares about the trinity on this board.”

I nearly fell out of my chair after reading this nonsense.  NOBODY HERE cares about the Trinity?  Really?? Wow.  

I think most honest people reading this board, would agree that Rando is OBSESSED with it, and so is Eddie.  I mean, do you just not know how many people have asked a question to Rando about another subject altogether, only to have him steer his “answer” away from what they asked, and use it as a chance to bash the Trinity?  Even when the question had NOTHING to do with the Trinity?  Why would you make a comment, DW, that you yourself know to be completely false?  To make it look like we are the ones starting arguments, when you know full well it isn't.

In fact, Rando thinks the answer to nearly EVERY question, is to bash the Trinity.  

How do you make the statement that “nobody here cares about the Trinity”, when every single one of the readers on EITHER side of that equation, knows that is a joke?  DW, your credibility was lost long ago, I’m afraid.  Statements like this only make it worse.

You ask….“Why is the trinity even being discussed here??”

Well, that would be because RANDO was lying about it, Richard saw him lying about it and decided to post a reply, to which Eddie G went all to pieces and started writing Rando about it, and then Richard and I responded to Eddie’s distortions, and Rando’s additional lies, and well, that is where we are today….Us responding to the lies from people you claim “don’t care about the Trinity”.

But the funny part is, you claim to be good friends with Rando, so you of all people should know the sick obsession and hatred he has for the Trinity, and that it constantly torments him even in his sleep.  I mean, really….We could poll our reading audience, and even if the JW readers were honest (a big “if” with some of them), they would have to acknowledge that it is Rando’s favorite subject to discuss.  I mean, just take a LOOK, at his YouTube videos to see what he talks the most about.  So much for "nobody on this board caring about the Trinity."

You also made an interesting, almost-admission here with this statement….“Eddie or me or Bro Rando don't have to have knowledge of the trinity to be on this forum we're not here for that reason.”

Thank you, DW!!  For admitting without actually coming out and saying it, that you and the other 2 named JWs above, do not have knowledge of the Trinity.  Because Eddie’s and Rando’s posts on the subject, reek with a lack of understanding.  And so have yours, Sir.  Again, nobody is asking any of you to agree with it.  We're simply asking for you all not to distort and lie about it?  Why is that so hard for you to comprehend?

But you say "we're not here for that reason".  Actually, though, maybe you can explain just WHY you ARE here, then?  Why is Rando here?  Why are you here?  Certainly not to be a help to people, because you guys are the laughing-stock and have done far more harm than good.  I know that other JWs are here to simply explain the beliefs of your religion, and do a fine job.  But you guys have a different objective, it seems.  I know in the beginning, your profile used to state that you are not here to deal with apostates/wolves, or something like that.  You should’ve kept it that way.  But Rando came here for the sole reason of bashing me, and slandering me, and lying about my beliefs...SPECIFICALLY, the issue of the Trinity.  No question about that one....Rando and Eddie are absolutely OBSESSED with the Trinity.  

It really isn't correct to say that "nobody here cares about the Trinity".

I also notice that you call Rando “Bro”, but its still just “Eddie”….If you still think Eddie is a fake, then you should be more worried about your friend of many years, associating with an “apostate”/phony, than what I am doing.  Or perhaps you see that they are getting the worst of the conversation…. On the other hand, if you now believe he is a genuine JW, then you owe the man a public retraction and an apology, for presuming to be the judge of everyone else on this board.  Being a "genuine JW" doesn't depend on whether or not they follow you out of a chat room, DW.

You want everyone to “give it a rest”?  Certainly….Just as soon as they stop their lying about the Trinity, Richard and I will not have to post responses to those lies.  Real simple, actually.  When is the last time that you saw either myself or Richard, post an article on the Trinity, that was not in RESPONSE to something said by one of the people here who you claim "don't care about the Trinity"?

DW, the sad fact is, that like many of your JW counterparts, you have either no ability to get your facts correct, or you make no effort to.  Because as I said before,  this is the SECOND time here recently, that you have tried to place the blame on us, for a conversation that your people started.

Previously, you wrote the following nonsense….““So Derrick and Richard out of pure desperation have started the old "Child abuse attacks" on Jehovah's witnesses.”

When in actuality, it was Rando who started that discussion, and not us.  Get your facts straight, DW.  This stuff is able to be seen by the public, so there's nothing to be gained by altering the facts.

Now, the mentality you have seems to be writing with, is that you, Rando, and Eddie, can tell any lie you want to, and if we respond to it, then we are the trouble-makers?  Is that what you think?  Because you think this is YOUR forum, you can say whatever falsehood you please?

Richard was most generous in the above-mentioned instance (child molestation issue), to give you a “pass” on your misinformation, since you say you haven’t read the board much.  But then, I am afraid that I cannot be so generous unless you are willing to retract, because its fine if you haven’t kept up with the board.  But if you haven’t, you really shouldn’t be commenting on who started what, now should you?

Just like now….We didn’t bring up the Trinity discussion.  And although you didn't come right out and SAY we did, you certainly imply it, by saying that "nobody here cares about the Trinity on this board", when in fact, it is Rando and Eddie's favorite subject to discuss, and the one they know the least about.  And the ONLY reason it is being discussed at all, is because your dear old friend Rando was lying about it, and he was addressed, and now Eddie is trying to help him get the mud off of himself, to no avail.  

We merely responded to the distortions, and exposed them.  If you think that “nobody here cares about the Trinity, then I suggest you let your own friend Rando know that.


And finally, DW has once again decided to take the low road as usual, and twist my comments on salvation.  He tries to give the impression here, that I somehow said that salvation is illogical, which is a blatant misrepresentation, and he knows it.  But sadly, that is his style…always twisting, and trying to distort what was said.  He’s done it hundreds of times, and sees no problem with it.

He writes…..“Derrick finally admitted the other day that he believes salvation is not based on logic. Yet in virtually the very next breath he tries to use logic to show how life couldn't have evolved by chance!! Then in many of his posts he attempts to use logic to defend his doctrine whilst in others doesn't bother at all with logic!!”

Now, the above statement is a partial truth, and partial deception.  It is true that salvation is not BASED on HUMAN “logic”, as I have made quite clear.  But the bad part is, DW then tries to make it appear as if I somehow am saying it is ILLOGICAL.  It is DW who is being illogical, because he evidently doesn’t comprehend the difference between something not being BASED on logic, and being illogical.  His first statement is a half-truth, but his following statements, imply that I was saying that we should throw “logic” out the window, but that I then attempt to USE logic.  

Again, just more of his twisting and distorting.  He then goes on to make the false implication, that I think salvation is “illogical”, in the following statement….

“Christendom say "they're already saved" yet Christendom admit they're not logical.”

Uhm, did I REALLY “admit to not being “logical”?  No, I didn’t.  Another one of DW’s lies.  What I said was, that salvation is BEYOND “human logic”, and we are not saved, BASED ON “logic”.  Didn’t say salvation wasn’t “logical”.  

The man almost never gets anything correct.


What I ACTUALLY said…..

“That being said, I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying about "logic". First off, I did not ever deny that God gives us the capacity to think logically, nor am I saying we shouldn't use what He gave us .... In our everyday lives, and in situations that we face. What I said was, that our gift and capacity of "logic", is not to be used as an invitation to question the ways, nature, or mind of Almighty God, Who is higher than we are. If we ever attempt to place our logic on the same level as His thinking, we have made a serious mistake.”

And…..

“In regards to salvation, "logic" has NOTHING to do with "knowing we are saved". The Bible doesn't say we are saved by "logic" or "understanding" all the ins and outs, but rather, by grace through FAITH.”

Saying that something is BEYOND human “logic” or comprehension, is far different from saying it is illogical.  

But such are the dishonest twistings of DW, and his usual inability to get anything correct.  How these guys talk about “truth” and look themselves in the mirror, is completely beyond me. Claiming to be in "the truth", but seeing no need to tell the truth, is...well....Illogical.

Furthermore, nowhere did I say that “logic” was wrong, or that salvation was “illogical”…I said that the Bible doesn’t teach that we are saved by “logic”, but by grace  through faith.  Its good that its that way, so that even “illogical” people can be saved, too.  So, there’s hope for these guys yet.

And I believe I made it abundantly clear, that I was referring to, not AGAINST thinking “logically”, but rather, to placing our human “logic” in direct contrast to a Bible teaching, or using human “logic” to question what God has said in Scripture.  And also, saying that it is beyond human “logic”, WHY Jehovah God would show wicked human beings, such grace and mercy.  Only a liar, or a complete moron, could have read what I wrote, and come away saying that I think salvation is “illogical”.

Seriously DW, I have nothing personal against you, but you need to start getting honest.  Stop the lying, please.  You almost never get your facts straight on anything….In short, you are “illogical”.

And I HOPE you were not implying in your letter, that Jehovah God does not love every human being, and want every human being to follow Him.  If that is what you are saying, would you please indicate such, so that we can compare your teaching, with what the Scriptures say?  That would make for an interesting discussion, and also would give you the chance to administer that “Scriptural mauling” that you have been promising me for a couple years now.

At any rate, stop the lying, please.  Jehovah’s Witnesses are taught not to lie, but some of you do a very poor job of obeying your own teaching.

Or, if we REALLY wanted to be “logical”, I guess we could say something like…

“now here's the truth, every Bible teaching from the Slave is the correct one until they tell you otherwise"

And then, when that is shown for the ridiculous folly that it is, I could get even more ridiculous, and make a completely pointless statement like….

“"here's the truth every Bible interpretation is the current one, until the time the faithful slave say otherwise"

Is this his idea of “logic”?  The first statement is clear evidence of brainwashing, and creates all sorts of questions which DW has refused to answer, while the second, says absolutely nothing.  As I said before, its like telling my wife that “this cheeseburger that I’m eating is the current one, until the time that I order another one” .  DW claims that comment is “ridiculous”.  Well yeah, it is…Its supposed to be.  It shows how ridiculous his own statement was.  That was the whole point.

DW made this amazing comment, as well…“now Derrick thinks I'm bullying him but really I use him as an example because he is the best example of everything that's wrong with Christendom.”

DW, I don’t think you’re bullying me.  I don’t think you have the ability to bully, or “maul” anyone, with the Scripture. You have shown that abundantly, already.  I do not consider willfully fabricated statements designed to slander and discredit another person, as "bullying".  I consider it as being desperate.  

In fact, its odd, given the ridiculous quotes from YOU above, that you would talk about anybody else being the “best example of what is wrong”, when you Sir, are a prime example of everything that is wrong with the Watchtower Society.  Your posts show evidence of brainwashing, through and through.  And when called out on it, you lie, distort, twist, scream, and whine about “personal attacks”.  Fact is, you just do the same things Eddie, Rando, and Sister T, all do.  This board would be a much better place for real examples of JWs, if you guys were absent from it.


In fact, I’ll tell you what I think, DW….I think my response to Christaras was so full of the Gospel message, that the demons that have blinded you to it, are using you to scream out against it.  That is very sad indeed, because yes, Jehovah God wants you to come to Him through simple faith, as well.  Hopefully one day you will.

But until then, stop the lying.  Okay?  Christians aren’t supposed to lie.  

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Derrick Holland

Expertise

I was raised in the religion known as Jehovah`s Witnesses for 13 years. Since becoming a born-again Christian, I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history. I can answer questions about their doctrines from the perspective of Biblical Christianity. To be clear: Jehovahs Witnesses is the religion of my upbringing, though I myself was never baptized into the religion, nor have I ever been considered as a Jehovahs Witness.

Experience

29 years of Biblical research into the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, and how they differ from the teachings of the Watchtower.

Organizations
I would advise each questioner to this forum, to carefully READ the profiles of the various volunteers. There are several such as myself, who are not practicing JWs, but will provide you with an accurate and honest answer, regarding JW teaching. If we don't know the answer, we will try to research and get it for you. There are also some excellent practicing JWs here, who also endeavor to give you a factual and honest answer, based on their point of view. I believe by getting both points of view, the questioner can weigh the evidence for themselves, and make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are also 3 here who claim to be JWs, but do NOT give honest, or well-researched answers. They will tell you only what they want you to believe, and they often hide facts about the history of their religion, as well as print untruths about other people's beliefs. This is done in an attempt to deceive the unsuspecting reader. It can be easily seen who these 3 are, simply by reading the public posts and "answers" which they write. Their posts will normally be filled with personal attacks, and if you question them about some teaching or aspect of the Watchtower that makes them uncomfortable, they will often reject your question, question your motives for asking it, tell you that you have been reading "apostate" sites, or turn the conversation into an attack on another expert. These ones are better avoided, as there is nothing to be gained by way of positive discussion, as they are not interested in intelligent conversation, or honest dialogue. If after reading the forum, you still have any questions as to who they are, just ask me, and I will be happy to tell you. And I can also provide documentation of their willful dishonesty. One thing is for certain...in a forum where people from both sides claim to be "Christians", there should never be any willful lying. Such ones only create a distraction in the forum, and provide nothing of any real value.

Education/Credentials
High School, some college. Studies of God's Word, the Bible, and how it compares to JW theology. I have found my own personal study and experiences to be far more valuable than any formal education or training. The Bible message is clear...Salvation is ONLY through and by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and no religious organization has a thing to do with it. While attendance at a Bible-preaching, Bible-believing church is a must for spiritual growth and fellowship, no church can grant salvation to its members. Nor is joining a particular group a prerequisite for being saved.

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