Jehovah`s Witness/DW - Messenger of Jehovah


Hi, I just want your insight, what would be your counter argument regarding the below reasoning.

The “Malek YHWH” (which is Hebrew for messenger of God or Angel) who spoke to people in the OT was supposedly God himself; hence in the accounts when the messenger(s) of God speaks, he speaks in first person. The reasoning goes on like this, whenever an account shows a messenger of God (Angel) speaking in the OT it is in fact Jesus, with the exception of the account of Soddom and Gomorrah where the three men who destroy the city are in fact the Father, Son and Holy Spirit the triune God (same goes for the three men appearing to Abraham, for example;

(Genesis 32:24,30) “…Finally Jacob was left by himself. Then A MAN began to grapple with him until the dawn ascended… Hence Jacob called the name of the place Pe•ni′el, because, to quote him, “I have SEEN GOD FACE TO FACE and yet my soul was delivered…”

The reasoning carries on that the title “Angel” does not fit the description of Malek but is rather a mistranslation due to ignorance, even though the term Angel is an accepted term for the spirit beings whom God created. Therefore they say Malek should not be translated Angel but rather messenger of God. They then link Jesus being the Word of God as the Messenger of God (Malek).
Their main scriptural evidence they try to use is found in Exodus 14:19, compared with 1 Corinthians 10:1-4. They say that the Malek YHWH that led them “was the Christ”.

To date I can only think of a handful of counter arguments against these points. Firstly that scripture plainly states that “no one has seen the Father at anytime”, this shows that the Father, couldn’t off appeared to Abraham or lot along with the Son and HS since it plainly states no one has seen him.

My other argument I is the use of parallel accounts of people whom have been sent to relay a message speaking in first person as if they are the person who sent them. (E.g. Matthew 8:5,6 compared to luke 7:2,3) Therefore it isn’t wrong to understand accounts such as ‘angel(s) appearing to Abraham , destroying Soddom, or even  grappling with Jacob, as spirit beings and not Jesus.

The only other counter argument I can think of is that by definition a Messenger ‘of’ somebody cannot be that person himself. Therefore Malek YHWH cannot be Jesus based on the Trinitarian belief that Jesus is God and therefore cannot be his own messenger.

As Jehovah’s Witnesses we could also understand Jesus to be the Malek YHWH in some cases, for example he may have been the angel that appeared in the thornbush, he may be the angel that led Israel and also grappled with Jacob, yet these are meant to be understood with a pinch of salt. Also the fact that we don’t believe in a trinity makes sense that Jesus could be Malek YHWH in some of those accounts, however switch Jesus as God himself and you come up with problems, as I’ve already shown.

So again, what would be your counter arguments as to why Jesus being the Malek YHWH based on the Trinitarian mind frame cannot be God, most importantly what is your insight showing how Malek YHWH speaking as if Jehovah not proof that he is Jehovah.

Thanks for your input in advance brother.

Hi mate

Thanks for writing

You know the points you come out with are very good as opposed to the trinitarian argument. The reality is nobody can just make a statement without backing it up , well they can but it doesn't work ,the conversation goes something like this

Trinitarian) This messenger is God

JW) No it isn't

Trinitarian) Yes it is

Jw) No it isn't

Trinitarian) Yes it is....

and so on and so on

What we believe needs to be backed up with evidence.

But having said that sometimes you can present the most reasonable and logical argument and people still don't get it this is what happened with the Apostle Paul

Acts 28: "And he explained the matter to them by bearing thorough witness concerning the kingdom of God and by using persuasion with them concerning Jesus from both the law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some began to believe the things said; others would not believe"

It is the same with us, being convinced in your own mind is the most important thing rather than trying to persuade others who won't be persuaded

Heb 6: 9  "we are convinced of better things, things related to salvation,"

So here's some problems with the trinitarian argument in this case

1)God is an Angel

2)God is his own messenger

3)God created millions of messengers/angels to then go and deliver messages himself

4)R.E mistranslation) Angel means messenger anyway

5)These two scriptures Ex 33:20, John 1:18 

I think fives plenty I also see some of the others have answered for you too and done a decent job.

Take that back to him and if he won't accept it this is what our lord said to do

Matt 10:14" Wherever anyone does not take YOU in or listen to YOUR words, on going out of that house or that city shake the dust off YOUR feet"

Follow up if you need

Take Care  

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Bro DW


I have many years of experience serving Jehovah . I have known Jehovah a long time and I have known his organization . I have been privileged to see great progress not only in my own personal relationship with my God and Father but within his organization. I am an avid reader of the bible and have been gifted by my Father with the indescribable privilege of being allowed to understand his own word.


The truth is all about scripture and logic. The two go hand in hand . There is not one bible verse that cannot be understood within the realms of human reasoning. Not one!! Why would it?? The bible is God's message to his creation . His creation who he made to understand things in a specific way. God is not stupid or unwise as to leave as a message then allow us to guess what it means or who he is. 1 Tim 2:3This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, 4whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth" Notice the expression "accurate knowledge".

The bible leaves signs of true christianity there are many. Jehovah's witnesses meet every single sign. One sign is the removal of false teachings that permeated the world soon after the apostles died. Jesus foretold this and he also foretold of the restoration of pure worship in the period known as the last days. The days we are currently living in. Jesus was a master of using illustrations he used an illustration to highlight this point Matt 13: "The Kingdom of the heavens may be likened to a man who sowed fine seed in his field. 25While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat and left. 26When the stalk sprouted and produced fruit, then the weeds also appeared. 27So the slaves of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow fine seed in your field? How, then, does it have weeds?’ 28He said to them, ‘An enemy, a man, did this.’ The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go out and collect them?’ 29He said, ‘No, for fear that while collecting the weeds, you uproot the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest, and in the harvest season, I will tell the reapers: First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up; then gather the wheat into my storehouse" Why did he speak in illustrations? Matt 13:10So the disciples came and said to him: “Why do you speak to them by the use of illustrations?” 11In reply he said: “To you it is granted to understand the sacred secrets of the Kingdom of the heavens, but to them it is not granted" The kingdom of the heavens is full of sacred secrets that Jesus reveals only to his followers. This privilege is open to all who are really willing to submit to God and his Christ in action not just in words. These are the ones God is looking for. Are you really one?? If so I encourage you to let Jehovah's witnesses show you what the Bible really teaches.

False religion is disgusting to God and to his true worshippers it is likened in the Bible to a harlot Rev 17:"I will show you the judgment upon the great harlot who sits on many waters, 2with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, whereas those who inhabit the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication" Whereas the bride of Christ is likened to a virgin Rev 14: 4"These are the ones who did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins" These are both used as spiritual terms here and show the importance of pure and clean worship for God's people.

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