Jehovah`s Witness/VERSES EVANGELISTS DO NOT TAKE AF FACE VALUE
QUESTION: Hello Mr Hepburn.
Born again evangelists claim more than any other christian group, that we must accept what is written in the Bible without spiritualizing the verses, making interpretations and putting our own ideas. Just read what the Bible says.
Lets see if they will accept what the Bible plainly says.
The first theme is "life after death".
11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
Here we see that JESUS SAYS PLAINLY that Lazarus was SLEEPING. He was not conscious in a paradise or in heaven. To "sleep" means to be unconscious. He was dead, fully unconscious. His body was rotting in the ground. Jesus says he's going to wake him up, not to take him from a life in a paradise.
Now, Im wondering if born agains are going to believe what the Bible reads here.
Im posing this challenge to any evangelist. Evangelists believe that all sinners are conscious and go to a place called Hell, also that all believers in Christ are conscious and go to Paradise in Heaven.
Then CAN THEY EXPLAIN WHY LAZARUS WAS SLEEPING?
Im sending this to you, because Derrick says he's tired of the same questions. Anyway, I challenge every evangelist on this subject. Can he give a honest reply? Im curious about what kind of explanation theyre going to give.
ANSWER: G'day Christaras
I have to say that I agree with you on this. Lazarus had been dead for some time and even his family acknowledged that he must smell by thus time. The question is was there some mystical part of him his "spirit" (literally breath) that ascended to heaven? I believe many religions are under the impression that when one dies their "spirit" goes immediately to heaven or hell. Lazarus was a God-fearing man and a follower of Jesus, under the assumptions of most Christians he would have gone straight to heaven. Just image how cruel that would be it it were true, to have suffered and died and if his "spirit" had gone to a better place without pain etc, but to suddenly get called back to mortal life only to get sick again in later years and die.
Yes the words of Jesus show that he was in a state of unconsciousness, feeling nothing knowing nothing just as is stated in Ecclesiastes 9:5 " For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing," (KJV)The dead are in a state of sleep awaiting a resurrection at a future time.
The question you are asking an "evangelists" I do not ever remember asking anyone myself, so it would be interesting to see how they respond.
So I am sorry, I can not give you any insight as to what they might say
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Sir Hepburn look, I have my doubts for every subject. But now Im just following Derrick's advice. He told me "do not add your ideas, just read what is there". Well, Im reading what is there! Plain and simple. I told him that Bible supports many opinions, he says Im wrong. The Bible speaks and its doctrine.
Ok, the Bible speaks. Lets see.
Another subject - Is man a spirit?
Another SHOCK came when I read Jesus' discussion with Nicodemus. Born agains get their name from chapter 3 John's Gospel. Evangelists were angry when I told them JWs believe that 144000 will become spirits when they go to heaven. They told me that we are already spirits.
3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Lol!!! If "Bornagains" are already spirits, how they are BORN AGAIN AS SPIRITS IN HEAVEN? Jesus says that now they are flesh!!! They must be born again as spirits!!!
Any evangelist, Derrick or other, interested in explaining this too?
Im just giving you the exact words of Jesus.
It is not unusual for people to have doubts. At times even the apostles did not understand everything Jesus said and had to wait patently for things to become clearer.
You are correct. Taking one text and assigning a meaning to it as it reads in a particular Bible will not necessarily tell us what was meant AT THE TIME it was written. Because there may well be another text that appears to contradict a particular understanding as you point out in your example above
Here several things I try to keep in mind when studying the Bible.
It is impossible for God to lie (Hebrews 6:18
All Scripture is inspired of God (2 Tim 3:16
So when studying what God has as recorded in the Bible I know that it is truth. Part of the problem is the Bible was written in languages that are no longer spoken in every day life. We have to rely on people to translate form those ancient languages into modern every day speech using words that correctly reflect what was originally written but in a way that we get the understanding.
Also there are no master Hebrew or Greek texts that can stated as a for a 100% certainty, to reflect exactly every word in the originals, because all the manuscripts that have been found vary in some minor way, but we can be confidant that the accuracy is so close to the original writings today that major doctrinal points are no longer affected by added words.
The KJV for example is written in an English style that includes many words that we no longer use in every day speech, as well as, at time, the translators, even though the knew Greek, did not have a full grasp of ancient Greek and so there are many phrases and words that the KJV uses that do not reflect the original syntax, and, thus, meaning. Now, in truth there is no Bible that 100% reflects exactly what the original words mean 100% of the time. In every Bible there are odd words or phrases that do have different possible renderings into English and a translator must decide how to best translate that, so we will find slight variations in all modern Bibles. So I use a variety of Bibles. Even the WTS uses various Translations in their printed material.
The next thing that needs to be kept in mind is CONTEXT. Not just the 5a)
context of the verse, 5b)
but chapter, 5c)
and the rest of the Bible.
We also need to try to consider who the audience is of the writer, 6a)
what their customs and 6b)
beliefs are. All these those things can have an effect on what a passage is teaching.
Even though you have doubts about some things keep on searching and learning.