Jehovah`s Witness/Bible Research.....


Hi Bro Rando,

I hope you and your family are doing well. Please give my brothers and sisters in your area my love!

That was very interesting what was brought up to you Bro Rando, as someone else I know also said that it's symbolic regarding the birds and animals eating up the ones who are killed at Armageddon. And then someone else said, it's literal.  

Your reply didn't really say if you felt it was or was not.  But it got me to thinking and I want to pass this by you and see what your thoughts are since our understandings have increased since the 70's.  Plus we know that some things are literal in Revelation as well as symbolic.  Like the 144,000, Satan being cast down to the vicinity of the earth, a great crowd coming out of the Great Tribulation, Satan's abyssing for 1000 years, Jesus to rule for a 1000 years, the wicked being destroyed, death, sorrow, tears, and pain done away with on earth, as there never has been death, tears, and pain, and sorrow in heaven.  So we know that some things are literal in the book of Revelations.

I always thought it was literal, our Watchtower this past week never mentioned it being symbolic either. Here's why I believe the birds and animals eating the flesh of those slain is literal, correct me if I'm wrong.

The scriptures show that Jehovah has used animals to eat wicked ones. (also see list of cited scriptures below)

Jehovah declared in the Bible that the dogs would eat Jezebel and the birds would eat up those of Ahab who died in the fields
1 Kings 21:23-25

All that was left of Jezebel when she was thrown down was her skull, feet, and palms of her hands.  Thus the prophecy fulfilled, the dogs ate her while Je'hu ate and drank, which I'm sure wasn't very long. And once the dogs used the bathroom, Jezebel became as manure in the fields as it says in vs 37. 2 kings 9:32-37

That was literal...

Also Jah used a few animals in the plagues he put upon Egypt. Frogs, gnats, gadflies, locusts, and indirectly, Egypt's livestock died, and when the Nile river was turned to blood, the fish died.  Also note how the Egyptians worshipped many animals and the plagues were to disgrace their gods, some of which had animal characteristics and/or were animals.  

Would it be too far fetched to see how Jehovah would literally use animals to eat ones, even the very ones who worhshipped the creation rather than the creator? (Ro 1:25)

Also other scriptures where Jehovah spoke literally of birds and animals eating the wicked ones, it seems that is what he used to dispose of the flesh on their bodies, all things are possible for Jehovah so he can appoint all the animals to dispose of those slain at Armageddon.

Cited scriptures:

1 Sam 17:46 "This very day Jehovah will surrender you into my hand, and I will strike you down and cut off your head; and on this day I will give the corpses of the camp of the Phi·lis′tines to the birds of the heavens and to the wild beasts of the earth; and people of all the earth will know that there is a God in Israel."

Deut. 28:26 "And your carcasses will become food for every bird of the sky and animal of the ground, with no one to frighten them away.

1 Kings 14:11 "Anyone belonging to Jer·o·bo′am who dies in the city, the dogs will eat; and anyone who dies in the field, the birds of the heavens will eat, for Jehovah has spoken it.”’

Jer 7:33 "And the dead bodies of this people will become food for the birds of the heavens and for the beasts of the earth, with no one to frighten them away."

Jer 15:3 "‘And I will appoint over them four calamities,’ declares Jehovah, ‘the sword to kill, the dogs to drag away, and the birds of the heavens and the beasts of the earth to devour and to destroy.

Jer 16:4 "....They will perish by the sword and by famine, and their dead bodies will be food for the birds of the heavens and for the beasts of the earth.’"

Isa 18:1,6 "1 Woe to the land of whirring insect wings In the region of the rivers of E·thi·o′pi·a! 6 They will all be left for the birds of prey of the mountains And for the beasts of the earth.  The birds of prey will spend the summer on them, And all the beasts of the earth will spend the harvesttime on them.

Eze 29:5 "....You will fall on the open field, and you will not be gathered up nor be collected together. I will give you as food to the wild beasts of the earth and the birds of the sky."

Eze 32:4 "I will abandon you on the land; I will cast you onto the open field. I will cause all the birds of the sky to settle on you, And I will satisfy the wild beasts of the whole earth with you."

Eze 39:1-4 "“And you, son of man, prophesy against Gog, and tell him, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “I am against you, Gog, head chieftain of Me′shech and Tu′bal. 2 I will turn you around and lead you and make you come up from the remotest parts of the north and bring you in upon the mountains of Israel. 3 I will knock your bow out of your left hand and make your arrows fall from your right hand. 4 On the mountains of Israel you will fall, you and all your troops and the peoples who will be with you. I will give you as food to all kinds of birds of prey and the wild beasts of the field.”’

Eze 39:17-21 "17 As for you, son of man, this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: ‘Say to every sort of bird and to all the wild beasts of the field,.....18 You will eat the flesh of mighty ones...."

We know that Ezekiel 39:17-21 parallels Rev. 19:17,18. "I saw also an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice and said to all the birds that fly in midheaven: “Come here, be gathered together to the great evening meal of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of military commanders and the flesh of strong men and the flesh of horses and of those seated on them, and the flesh of all, of freemen as well as of slaves and of small ones and great.”


Ezekiel 39 brings out something very interesting,

Ez 39:11-16 “‘On that day I will give Gog a burial place there in Israel, in the valley of those who travel east of the sea, and it will block the path of those passing through. That is where they will bury Gog and all his hordes, and they will call it the Valley of Hamon-Gog. 12 The house of Israel will spend seven months burying them in order to cleanse the land. 13 All the people of the land will work at burying them, and this will bring them fame in the day that I glorify myself,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.

14 “‘Men will be assigned to pass through the land constantly and bury the bodies left remaining on the surface of the earth, in order to cleanse it. They will continue the search for seven months. 15 When those who pass through the land see a human bone, they will set up a marker beside it. Then those assigned to do the burying will bury it in the Valley of Hamon-Gog. 16 And there will also be a city there named Ha·mo′nah. And they will cleanse the land.’

Since we know that Gog of Ma'gog represents Satan, who has along with him his hordes, meaning his demons and also the nations of this earth.  Gog's burial place is said to be symbolic, (see Insight book Volume 1 under Gog).  As we know Satan and his demons will be abyssed for 1000 years where he can no longer influence people on the earth at that time.  (Rev. 20:1-3)

But could it be that in Eze 39:12 that the house of Israel is speaking of the 144,000?  As we see from Jeremiah chapter 31 who is speaking of the anointed ones who will reign with Jesus is called the house of Israel (also see Heb 8:8-13), the Israel of God (Gal 6:16 )?

Jer 31:31-33 “Look! The days are coming,” declares Jehovah, “when I will make with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant. 32 It will not be like the covenant that I made with their forefathers on the day I took hold of their hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, ‘my covenant that they broke, although I was their true master,’ declares Jehovah.”  33 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares Jehovah. “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I will write it. And I will become their God, and they will become my people.”

Could it be that these will dispose of the bones left over after the animals eat their fleshy parts?  Since the burial place is a symbolic burial place, would it be fitting that the anointed ones, or house of Israel, would be "those assigned to do the burying" of any bones left?

Even though the burial place is symbolic, the death of billions is still literal.  Also in Noah's time, once they left the Ark, it doesn't speak of them having to bury any of the ones who died during the flood.  And we know that literal people died, but their bodies were not around.  So Jehovah must have used angels to rid the earth of them, just like when Michael was disputing with Satan over Moses' body (Jude 9), we see that the Bible says Moses was buried by Jehovah, (Zech 3:2) and we know that Jehovah used his angels to carry out his divine will.   We also know that Jesus was the main one Jehovah used regarding the Israelites, (1 Cor 10:1-5) so it's fitting that Michael which is Jesus' name before God gave him the name Jesus, (Phil 2:9-11) would be the one to dispose of Moses' body, because he was there.  Thus helping us to see that Jehovah used heavenly ones to dispose of bodies.  Just like angels were used to dispose of Jesus' body and why they were there when Mary came to the tomb (Matt 28:1-6)

So that helps us to see that it's not too far fetched that Jehovah would use them again at the end, along with the ones that were brought from the earth. (Rev. 14:3) The only difference would be that it would only be the bones or what was left over after the animals got done, because for them to be manure on the ground, as in the case with Jezebel, the animals would have to eat the flesh and use the bathroom in order for them to become as manure on the ground.  This is shown at Jeremiah 25:33 “Those slain by Jehovah will certainly come to be in that day from one end of the earth clear to the other end of the earth. They will not be bewailed, neither will they be gathered up or be buried. As manure on the surface of the ground they will become.”  

That also helps us to see that it's a literal case of the birds and animals eating the fleshy parts.  bodies do not turn into manure, it rots and decomposes and returns to dust.  But if the animals literally ate their flesh and then used the bathroom, those ones would become as manure on the surface of the ground as the Bible says.

I'd love to hear your further thoughts and any from other real JW's.

Thanks Bro Rando


Sister T

You bring out some excellent illustrations Sister!  SO let's turn back to the Watchtower study.  See where paragraph (18) on page 7 speaks about "birds" being gathered to the great evening meal?  It is emphasized by the preceding introduction of the paragraph, namely, "In poetic language" .  

Also, read Paragraph (14) on page 6.  "When Jesus Christ rides forth to execute Jehovah's judgement at Armageddon, he will accomplish "awe inspiring things" against his enemies .  Just what means he will use to destroy Satan's system, we do not know.

Back to paragraph (18).  "The King's arrow's are sharp, piercing the hearts of his enemies and 'making them fall before him.'"   How does Jesus Christ conquer and complete his conquest?  With weapons or the Good News of God's Kingdom through the preaching work?  

"For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints from the marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart." (Hebrews 4:12)

Take Care Sister and Philia! To the end! (Matthew 24:13)
Brother Rando  

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Brother Rando


Brother Rando is a student of Prophecy and one of Jehovah's Witnesses in good standing with the Faithful and Discreet slave. His interests are directed towards how the time of the end would come about. The earth’s population today is going through a physical, spiritual and emotional tribulation that has been prophesied concerning a time of distress as it enters into a cleansing period of removing wickedness by means of God’s Kingdom. (Daniel 12:1) Brother Rando’s discussions are of keen interest to many who await for God's Kingdom. He asserts that his discussions are just that, and not Prophecies, nor does he make the claim to be inspired. His authority is the Bible. He proclaims the year 2034 to be of very high interest to all. Like a GPS, that gives Insight to location, 2034 allows us to gauge where we are in the stream of time according to God’s Will. According to Brother Rando, the Bible carries two thoughts in it’s passages, one is fleshy and the other is spiritual. Jesus Christ warned Peter of thinking fleshy and that this type of thinking is not from God. (Matthew 16:23) In order to measure time, a method of measurement is needed. Measuring time by “the day” would mean a 24 hour period. However, measuring “the day” spiritually would mean a period of time yet to be revealed using other scripture to interpret the method needed. By looking into the Bible, we can actually determine what God meant by “the day” when looking into his Word on how his Will would come about. As we read (Genesis 2:16-17) the punishment for disobedience was death “in the day”. As time went on, the scriptures do begin to reveal the time frame of “the day”. According to Genesis 5:5, Adam lived 930 years and then he died. Satan who thinks like a man, got it wrong! (Genesis 3:4-5) Why Study the Bible


In Brother Rando’s research of the Bible, he found scripture does interpret other scripture. The answer to how long a day was, according to God’s Will was found in Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8. This is vital to gaining understanding in how we are to measure time in God’s view. Spiritually and not fleshy or physical. A day in heavens time is a thousand years to us. It’s by this method we can measure time and where we are in the stream of time of the end. In answer Jesus said to them: “Break down this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” (John 2:19) Was Jesus indicating that he was the Temple of God, God’s Kingdom? And that the temple would in fact be destroyed or broken down? According to God’s Word, the following scripture is the basis for Salvation. “For if you publicly declare that ‘word in your own mouth,’ that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved.” (Romans 10:9) In order for John 2:19 and Romans 10:9 to come in line, did Jesus utter a prophecy about God's Kingdom since he stated, “I will raise it up”? IF the basis for salvation is that Jesus is Lord and that God raised him up. We can conclude that Jesus did not raise himself up, but it was God that raised him from the dead since he was dead and conscious of nothing at all. (Ecc 9:5) Jesus prophesied that HE would raise God's Kingdom. (Rev 5:10) Jesus was speaking prophetically of raising the temple within the third day of a thousand years. Jesus warned Peter not to think the thoughts of man. (Matthew 16:23) Based on 2 Peter 3:8 we are able to determine the time frame to when God’s Kingdom would be raised up by Jesus Christ. Jesus was put to death on Nisan 14, 33CE. The two days would actually represent two thousand years and we come up with the year 2033. Jesus stated,“in three days I will raise it up.” So the third day is upon us in 2034.

“I fully support, acknowledge and cooperate with *The Faithful Steward and Its' Governing Body* of Jehovah’s Witnesses.” I am property of the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" that Jesus, my brother, is appointing over his belongings. This Slave is the Governing Body of Jehovah's Earthly Organization known Worldwide as "Jehovah's Witnesses". When the Mountain-like organizations act against God's chosen people after Babylon has been destroyed, Jehovah will slaughter those who are touching the pupils of his eyes. Even though Babylon the Great is spoken as a woman and she has fallen in (Rev. 14:8), the sacred secret is that she is not a woman at all, but the World of False Religion that will be utterly destroyed by the personal hand of Jesus Christ as (King Abaddon) in the coming Great Tribulation never to be found again! (Matthew 24:14)

Secular Historians point to the Temple in Jerusalem being destroyed in 70 AD by the Romans. But was Jesus Christ speaking in a physical sense since that Temple is non-existent today? Jehovah Witnesses assert that Jesus under inspiration of Holy Spirit was actually prophesying about his spiritual body as the only means to approach his Heavenly Father. (John 14:6) Not the Temple made by hands or his fleshy body as Christendom claims, but his spiritual body, known as the Body of Christ. (1 Cor 12:27) This would actually be the Collective Representative of God’s Kingdom in how we can approach the One True God JEHOVAH. Brother Rando is not the first to come up with this time frame. In the first part of 1914, the Bible Students known as International Bible Students Association discussed the “time of trouble” on the printed page called The Bible Students Monthly. Early in 1914, an issue of The Bible Students Monthly was issued with the large bold heading “END OF WORLD IN 1914? Some have quoted the large headline of this tract as proof that Russell was expecting the “end of the world” in 1914. However, such neglect the subheading under the larger headline, which states: “NOT THE VIEW OF PASTOR RUSSELL NOR OF I.B.S.A.” International Bible Students Association: "Nevertheless, when viewed from God’s standpoint, we are still “shortly after” 1914. Although Russell himself did not think the time of trouble would be this long, he did allow that it could be. It is possible that the time allotted for this period is 120 years (1914+120=2034), but that these days will be “cut short” some time before they are allowed to reach their end. We do not put this forth as a “prophecy”, nor would we feel anything was wrong if 2034 came and went and nothing had happened as far the full binding of Satan and the destruction of his empire is concerned. All things are in God’s hands."

According to the discussion, 1914 represents the year that the earth would enter into a time of distress and that time limit could very well be 120 years. Which again, brings up the year 2034. The year 1914 is derived by a prophecy of the end of the Gentile times. Brother Rando insists that we should not live by a date, but to use this time to get right with God. Jesus continually pointed that the people who were on the earth when he would raise God’s Temple would be like those people in Noah’s time, taking no note. Where do the 120 years come from? If we read Genesis 6:3, most people think of this scripture in the fleshy sense of man’s lifespan. But could there be a spiritual meaning, giving those with Insight a divine warning? The Bible does say, “make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end.” (Daniel 12:4) Could it be, this world has entered into it’s Last Days in 1914? (1 Timothy 3:1-5) Yet there is another scripture that helps us measure the time. In Ecclesiastes 6:6 it reads, “Even supposing that he has lived a thousand years twice over and yet he has not seen what is good, is it not to just one place that everyone is going?” The chapter talks about vanity and that if a person actually lived two thousand years without God’s Kingdom we are all heading to the same place. Since death was the punishment, we would need God’s Kingdom to conquer death, the place we all are heading. A thousand years twice over is two thousand years. Simple math again brings us to the time of 2034, when the second thousand years has been brought to it’s finish. Could Christ Millennial reign be from 2034 to 3034? We don’t know. Jesus stated, he would raise God’s Temple in the third day, so we can expect God's Kingdom to be fully operating sometime between the years 2034 and 3034. However, Jesus Christ was risen first thing on the very morning in the third day. Most Bible readers are in agreement that Christ does rule for a thousand years.

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Armageddon is the actual cleansing of the earth from all wickedness. If in the literal sense, it would consist of angels coming down from heaven to bring death to all those rejecting the Kingdom of God. But if it is spiritual, Armageddon could very will take place without the knowledge that it is actually occurring. If this is the case, then Armageddon would commence without the knowledge that the wicked are simply dying off. There seems to be evidence in scripture to how God destroyed the forefather’s in the wilderness. They died off in the wilderness at the hand of the destroyer without knowing of such, as Paul eloquently explains in 1 Corinthians 10:1-10. If.....

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