Jehovah`s Witness/Commenting Derrick's answers
1)Derrick wrote concerning Lazarus:
"And let me clarify…Yes, I KNOW that Lazarus was “sleeping in death”. I gave you the quotes about sleep, because of your inaccurate definition of “sleep” as being “state of unconsciousness”.
If you had read the other part of my reply, you would see that I did say that Lazarus’ body was unconscious, and would have rotted down to nothing, if left there. Did you just miss that part?
But the entire discussion was about his body…nothing else."
My reply: For those who believe in dichotomy etc, the conciousness is a property of the soul, not the body. The personality - that is the inner man, is conscious of the world, not the cells! Here Derrick unconsiously accepts JWs view who believe that man is just the cells, so he contradicts himself. Theres not an unconscious or conscious flesh in his doctrine.
2)Derrick wrote concerning Solomon and Paul:
No, actually this cannot be a valid claim. For one thing, we have a recorded period in the life of Solomon, of apostasy. We know this happened, and we know WHY it happened…He loved many “strange women” who led him after other “gods”. He recorded these events of his life, and also his philosophy of life when he was in that spiritual state. There is a GOOD REASON why you never see a JW quote the entire verse or context, when they reference Ecclesiastes 9:5. There is a GOOD REASON why they only use one phrase from that passage….“For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing”….Because the rest of that passage and its surrounding context, absolutely shatter their OWN doctrine of a resurrection, the need to live according to God’s precepts, etc.
However, we have no record of any such period in Paul’s life. From the time of his conversion, he preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ, until the day of his death. Even when it was coming time for him to “depart and be with Christ, which is far better”, we see him writing that he had “kept the faith”, and “fought a good fight”. He was faithful to God unto death, and his writings are in our Bibles, because he was writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Meaning…they are truth and nothing but, truth."
My reply: So he says that this is the philosophy of Solomon and not the God's wisdom given to him? So what exactly is inspired from him in Ecclesiastes and why do we have this book on God's Holy Word? So the writings of Solomon were not under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit?
ANSWER: Hi Cristaras,
Interesting conversation you're having with Mr. Holland. But I'm not sure who's more confused, you or him? In any case it seems that you're both arguing the same thing you believed. That is, that both of you believe that man has an immortal soul that separates with the body WHEN the body dies.
Unless I'm wrong but that's what I think you subscribe to. Of course for Derrick Holland there's no doubt about it. He really believes that man has an immortal soul and that IT separates with the BODY when the body dies. And that this "immortal soul" departs either to a heavenly bliss or in the nightmarish place called "hellfire". They go there as believe to punished forever for past sins.
In either case, this doctrine is UNSCRIPTURAL and above all it:
--> Portrays a Loving God into a cruel and sadistic God. And it hides his true identity.
This is what this detestable teaching had done to God. And those promoting it will pay dearly for misrepresenting him.
So ask yourself this question Cristaras:
If Adam and Eve were created with an "immortal soul", why didn't God warn them that if they disobeyed His command, their "immortal soul" will forever "burn" in hell?
Instead they were told this:
(Genesis 2:16, 17) . . .Jehovah God also gave this command to the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.”
(Genesis 3:3) . . .But God has said about the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden: ‘You must not eat from it, no, you must not touch it; otherwise you will die.’”
Now why would a loving God not tell what religionist (like Derrick Holland and others like him) had been saying that if persons sins, when they die "their immortal soul will burn in hell forever"?
Instead he told Adam and Eve "You must not eat from it, no, you must not touch it; otherwise you will die.’”? NOT "burn in hell"?
Why not? The answer is obvious - one is lying, either the religionist are telling the truth or God was hiding something from his own creation. Which one do you think is telling the truth?
Also, ask yourself these questions?
How would I view a God who tortures people for all eternity? If I'm a loving and just person, do I get a sense of justice in torturing people over and over and over, again and again forever? Would I do the torturing myself or would I ask someone to do it for me? If so, what then is the difference between me and the person doing the actual torturing?
Yet that's what this detestable teaching has done. It portrayed a Loving God and Creator as someone capable of doing wickedness and badness, and to be feared rather than loved. Furthermore, it made him a co-conspirator and a co-worker of Satan since the Devil is believed to be and taught in Christendom as the one in charge of Hell.
Now, think about it Cristaras, how can this concept be from a Loving God?
Think about the people from Adam to present who committed sins and crimes, even unbelievers or atheist who died. Where are they? Is their "immortal soul" still being tortured at this moment in time, in a place called hellfire?
Are they being tortured by - God or the Devil? See how insane this "immortal soul" concept is?
Now, what about those who never heard of Jesus or the Bible and died, where are they now? If they have an "immortal soul" where did their "immortal soul" went? Was it in "limbo" as believe and taught in Catholic religion or somewhere else?
You see, like the detestable Trinity doctrine, this too, creates so many unanswered questions that creates doubts in the minds of people leaving them confused and blind.
And this is what's being taught in many churches!!!
Yet, Derrick Holland and others like him who are in here doesn't even see this teaching as a blatant lie!!! No, and rather than correct it, they continue to promote it along with their other pagan ideas. In fact they EVEN use the scriptures to promote this lie!
For instance, they will happily quote the parable about a "rich man and Lazarus" as if it's a proof of hell fire and a proof of how God tortures and punishes people. They will ALWAYS use this parable to promote their detestable idea in order to instill the fear of God the wrong way! They will stake their life to it and say that it's a fact even in the face of contradicting themselves and scriptures.
Why, they will even say that this is God showing his love to the victims of these wicked people.
They will even back it up with the scriptures that this is the will of God and that it's a part of his plan.
What a slap in the face of Jehovah God, something that Satan and his followers are delighted to do.
So Cristaras, if you really believe this garbage, it's now time to abandon it as it will only lead to destruction which is the FINAL end of the wicked. They will be gone forever never to be resurrected.
And no they will not be tortured in hell-fire forever as Derrick Holland and people like him claim, but they will "return to dust" (Genesis 3:19) as if they never existed. The right thing to happen!
“. . .For I will declare the name of Jehovah. Tell about the greatness of our God! 4 The Rock, perfect is his activity, For all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness who is never unjust; Righteous and upright is he.” (Deuteronomy 32:3, 4)
“Every good gift and every perfect present is from above, coming down from the Father of the celestial lights, who does not vary or change like the shifting shadows.” (James 1:17)
“For every unjust person who does such things is detestable to Jehovah your God.” (Deuteronomy 25:16)
“. . .On the contrary, continue to love your enemies and to do good and to lend without hoping for anything back; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind toward the unthankful and wicked. 36 Continue being merciful, just as your Father is merciful.” (Luke 6:35, 36)
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Youre absolutely correct!
The endless torture in hellfire is sadistic and meaningless! I understand the punishment of evil people for what they have done to the innocent, but to torture them forever has no meaning. So the extinguisable fire seems to be a symbol of eternal death - the second death.
As for the soul I will explain. The only thing where I agree with them is that I believe there is a soul apart from the body, a soul that receives signals from the external world and reacts with a free will, expressing emotions etc. That is your inner self, the man behind the screen, your personality.
But it seems that this soul goes for sleep at death and it has consciousness of nothing.
I expressed the opinion that Derrick and his friends believe in a zombie resurrection. They believe resurrection is just the flesh rising up, not the personality coming again into existence, cause they think the person continues to exist after death. How ridiculous.
Jesus said hes going to wake up Lazarus who sleeps. They equated Lazarus with his flesh. A flesh doesnt sleep! How stupid. My body is not conscious. I AM CONSCIOUS OF MY BODY AND THE OUTSIDE WORLD.
Jesus did not say I will raise the flesh of Lazarus and call him from paradise! He said he will wake up Lazarus!!! And its funny that they dont notice Jesus cried for Lazarus, because He loved him. If Lazarus was in blissful happiness in paradise, then Jesus would be happy not sad!!!
Look, I dont have problem with what Derrick and the others believe. I have problem with their hatred. It was supposed that they teach Jesus is the only savior and accepting Him is the salvation. The hypocrites fooled me. But now they say that if we dont accept their doctrines, we will burn in hell.
So they are putting their doctrines as a matter of salvation.
Woe to you Pharisaic hypocrites!
Keep on exposing their sick hateful religion, which is responsible for all the blood, pain and torture in the world.
Thanks Christaras for the feedback and my apologies for not responding soon. I just my computer repaired and reinstalled all programs. Now that it's up and running I'm able to respond.
You've pretty much said what I needed to say. But may I add, the hellfire doctrine is an UNCHRISTIAN doctrine as it motivates people to fear God in an unhealthy way. That is, the fear of being tortured forever. Actually it alienates people from serving and knowing our Loving God. For instance conversing with die hard atheists, I had the defend my God and clear His name because of this unscriptural teaching. Their main complaint for not believing in God is hellfire. They can't understand how Christians can worship a God of love who at the same time tortures people in hellfire forever. They say if this your God then I don't want anything to do with him.
Imagine that, instead of teaching people to love God for the right reasons, these so called Christians teachers teach their own ungodly and unchristian teachings.
Until they abandon these teachings of theirs, Jesus' words surely applies to them:
“. . .‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’” (Matthew 7:23)
As for the soul, you seem to be talking about the conscience that God put in man. That is, this inner voice that seems to condemn us whenever we do something wrong.
Yes, this one dies with us when we die - because it's a part of us. It's only conscious when were conscious and it's not an entity.
This conscience, because of imperfection we inherited from Adam and Eve, is skewed and prone to letting us do what is bad. That's why we're admonished to train it according to God's word. And by studying the Bible carefully and diligently we train this conscience of ours to do God's will and in turn will learn to love Jehovah all the more, NOT to fear Him because of an unchristian teaching - the hellfire.
And you will never learn this in Christendom because their own teachings condemn them.
Only Jehovah's Witnesses teach the truth about Jehovah God. No one else.
So before time runs out Cristaras, hear the word of God:
“. . .get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’”; “‘and I will take you in.. . .” (2 Corinthians 6:17)